Pay-wall on the CC in advance

So Intrepid is considering releasing the character creator in advance only for people that pre-order the game... This gives a couple of hours headstart for people not having to worry about creating their characters at launch. I have a pre-order pack, this doesn't affect me, still I think this is messed up. Big step in the wrong direction. What happened to the "We don't need your money" ?

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Cypher

Liniker wrote: »

Cypher wrote: »

Incredibly dumb argument. Character creation, which takes some people seconds, others minutes, and some extremists multiple hours is not even remotely the same as introducing an exclusive class which had an actual impact on gameplay and overall balance. Did you even read or think about your own argument before you smashed the “Post Comment” button?

Never said it was similar, just used a clearly exaggerated example to show u how ur argument is stupid if it can be used to defend pretty much anything. Go read it again.

A nonsensical and exaggerated example does not prove anything. My argument is solid, because there is no basis to claim the decision we’re discussing would actually be pay to win or pay to convenience. It’s a massive entitlement issue and that’s it. If you don’t pre-pay you don’t get to complain that you don’t get pre-released features that do not in any way affect the world or other players in the world. It’s purely affecting you on a cosmetic level just like paying for a skin. /end

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

Intrepid have never given a release date for Ashes.
Not once. Not ever.

Alright, now I know you clearly haven't been following the project for long, you lack the knowledge to discuss this further, and now I understand why you say the things you say, you need to learn more on the project before trying to talk about it, that's the last thing I'm telling you.

Go on the oficial discord, type in "2020 release" on the search bar, and find out about it. Maybe you'l find the apology Steven wrote about that.

Noaani wrote: »

You can't claim you don't expect the worst (not worse - English, learn it), when 100% of you actions show that you do.

Thank you for correcting the typo, indeed English is not my first language, however, I do speak 4 languages, how about you? - Don't answer it, this conversation is over.

Ostaff

When "someone else is able to create their character before you" is your biggest worry.. then I think the Devs are doing a great job of keeping P2W away!

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Go on the oficial discord

I don't sully myself with Discord.

The only thing I ever heard about December 2020 was that they had hoped to have alpha 1 up and running by then. It wasn't an announcement that they wanted to have it up by then, it was that they hoped to have it up by then. It also wasn't launch, it was alpha.

Now, as I said, I don't do Discord, so maybe I'm wrong. Thing is, I've now basically invited you to prove me wrong in a very, very simple manner - if you are right.

Pure Vanilla

I’m sorry but if you think people having access to character creation early is akin to pay to win, then you have CLEARLY never played an MMO with ACTUAL pay to win mechanics.

JamesSunderland

OP seems to make character creation in advance quite a big deal, i really don't think it is, but if it was Early Access i would understand...

Gizban

JamesSunderland wrote: »

OP seems to make character creation in advance quite a big deal, i really don't think it is, but if it was Early Access i would understand...

He likely has that perk already, and he's not complaining about the 'advantage' it gives him.
He's probably being a drama llama so he can set up chars for his multiboxing.

bigepeen

I think that if they were to do this, then it will ultimately lead to a bunch more default (or rushed) characters populating the world at launch, than if they were to release the character creator to everyone before launch. The reason is that time spent at the very beginning of any mmo is extremely valuable. That's why people paid for headstart even though it doesn't really seem like a big advantage if you look at the total time gained by purchasing it.

Anyway, it's not a big deal right now, as we are just speculating on what they will do. I feel like if they try to paywall the character creator, then it will likely get pirated and people can easily use it to generate their character files regardless of if they bought a pack or not.

Neox365

First World problems lol
Who cares if people can play 1 or 2 hours ahead
what disadvantage would that give you?

winner909098

I have a solution to this: allow us to create characters when in the queue. Problem solved.

Liniker

Ostaff wrote: »

When "someone else is able to create their character before you" is your biggest worry.. then I think the Devs are doing a great job of keeping P2W away!

Pure Vanilla wrote: »

I’m sorry but if you think people having access to character creation early is akin to pay to win, then you have CLEARLY never played an MMO with ACTUAL pay to win mechanics.

Neox365 wrote: »

First World problems lol
Who cares if people can play 1 or 2 hours ahead
what disadvantage would that give you?

pyreal wrote: »

He likely has that perk already, and he's not complaining about the 'advantage' it gives him.
He's probably being a drama llama so he can set up chars for his multiboxing.

If Steven does the right thing and addresses this, acknowledging that putting a 75$+ pay wall on character creator is indeed Pay-for-Convenience, goes against hes previous vision for the game, and won't be in the game - I will come back to this thread, just to have a good laugh.

Neox365

insomnia

If you have an issue with this, then you will have an issue with this. If i remember correctly, there was talk of giving people early acces to the give. Nodes wouldn't be able to progress though. I might remember wrong though.

But will it really matter in the long run. Some people just have more time to play, so they will leave you in the dust

Liniker

insomnia wrote: »

If you have an issue with this, then you will have an issue with this. If i remember correctly, there was talk of giving people early acces to the give. Nodes wouldn't be able to progress though. I might remember wrong though.

But will it really matter in the long run. Some people just have more time to play, so they will leave you in the dust

The headstart server is another issue, it used to be a problem, cuz even tho disabling nodes, people still had 2 days advantage they could cross the map and establish themselves within the region they wanted - that was p2w - steven realized that later, however, headstart was promised to backers that bought it.

Steven smashed this issue by saying there will only be 1/2 headstart servers per region launching earlier than others, so people can just pick any other server without headstart to play. Problem solved.

Ostaff

To be truthful, if Creating your character before the game releases is suppose to give you a heads starts... then what about all the experience and knowledge that people have gained by playing the Alphas and Betas before release? I think they have a much much higher advantage over just being able to "create" a character. I mean, alpha and beta testers actually "know" the game, the world, the best mechanics, and what will make for the best character creation.... where as the person just joining at release knows only what they have been able to gain from watching videos on the game.

Should AoC then not allow alpha and beta testers to play the game as soon as it releases? Are they being "p2w" because of that? The whole OP statement is just plain silly.

Liniker

Ostaff wrote: »

To be truthful, if Creating your character before the game releases is suppose to give you a heads starts... then what about all the experience and knowledge that people have gained by playing the Alphas and Betas before release? I think they have a much much higher advantage over just being able to "create" a character. I mean, alpha and beta testers actually "know" the game, the world, the best mechanics, and what will make for the best character creation.... where as the person just joining at release knows only what they have been able to gain from watching videos on the game.

Should AoC then not allow alpha and beta testers to play the game as soon as it releases? Are they being "p2w" because of that? The whole OP statement is just plain silly.

What are you talking about.... ? Again, someone with little to no knowledge of the project trying to make a point.

You are comparing something that is NECESSARY for the game, Alphas and Betas are part of the DEVELOPMENT they are 100% needed. And Intrepid is aware of the advantage it gives - that's why they are taking measures to avoid this, they will change all the nodes locations for the game launch, they will hide multiple questlines, and information that doesn't require testing.

Now tell me, what is early access character creator necessary for? If intrepid monetizes this they are making money on a convenience, with absolutely no reason or benefit for the game. What is it locking the CC behind a 75$ paywall good for? It goes 100% against their principles of no Pay-to... anything.

Your argument is stupid. Next....

Ostaff

Liniker wrote: »

Ostaff wrote: »

To be truthful, if Creating your character before the game releases is suppose to give you a heads starts... then what about all the experience and knowledge that people have gained by playing the Alphas and Betas before release? I think they have a much much higher advantage over just being able to "create" a character. I mean, alpha and beta testers actually "know" the game, the world, the best mechanics, and what will make for the best character creation.... where as the person just joining at release knows only what they have been able to gain from watching videos on the game.

Should AoC then not allow alpha and beta testers to play the game as soon as it releases? Are they being "p2w" because of that? The whole OP statement is just plain silly.

What are you talking about.... ? Again, someone with little to no knowledge of the project trying to make a point.

You are comparing something that is NECESSARY for the game, Alphas and Betas are part of the DEVELOPMENT they are 100% needed. And Intrepid is aware of the advantage it gives - that's why they are taking measures to avoid this, they will change all the nodes locations for the game launch, they will hide multiple questlines, and information that doesn't require testing.

Now tell me, what is early access character creator necessary for? If intrepid monetizes this they are making money on a convenience, with absolutely no reason or benefit for the game. What is it locking the CC behind a 75$ paywall good for? It goes 100% against their principles of no Pay-to... anything.

Your argument is stupid. Next....

I am afraid you completely misread my post. The entire meaning of that post was in sarcasm of the OPs statement about Early Character Creation being p2w. Of COURSE Alpha and Beta testing is manadatory! That is exactly why I brought it up in order to show just how ridiculous it is to think early Character Creation is p2w.

Also, it is doubtful that they will change everything on release just to keep the testers from knowing things. That is wasteful in effort, not efficient, and impossible to completely negate an entire knowledge base. No matter how much they change, the testers will have an advantage. This however is NOT pay to win, it is simply a matter of benefit of being a tester, having to "pay" to test is something that just started in the past decade or so, but there have always been alpha and beta testers who have had this benefit compared to the people who only see the game at release. The payment part, it strictly for "supporting" the company and helping them get the game started..

Actually, I see that you are the one who actually made the opening comment, so I really didn't need to defend my statement at all.

Liniker

Ostaff wrote: »

Also, it is doubtful that they will change everything on release just to keep the testers from knowing things. That is wasteful in effort, not efficient, and impossible to completely negate an entire knowledge base. No matter how much they change, the testers will have an advantage. This however is NOT pay to win, it is simply a matter of benefit of being a tester, having to "pay" to test is something that just started in the past decade or so, but there have always been alpha and beta testers who have had this benefit compared to the people who only see the game at release. The payment part, it strictly for "supporting" the company and helping them get the game started..

If the company is making efforts to change, and remove info on the Alphas, because THEY BELIEVE it would be pay to win and unfair to give that advantage to backers - then IT IS. There's absolutely no argument you can make to say it's not since Intrepid KNOWS IT IS and they will spend resources on minimizing that advantage.

However as I said, it is necessary. If alphas and betas wasn't necessary, and Intrepid still had them and charged for it - that would be 100% Pay to Win thats a fact.

Putting a pay wall on ANYTHING ELSE related to game content, including early access to character creation is 100% NOT necessary. So it is wrong, it is Pay-to-something and should not be a thing.

That's it.

Songcaller

I think you've mixed the issues up. I have already paid for my package. In my mind access to the character creation is a bonus or extension to my package.

Will access to the character creation early sell more packages? Possibly. Will people buy packages just to access the character creation? I doubt it.

You preach mostly to people who have a package already and try to tell them a potential perk (unseen perk) is immoral because of all those who havent backed the game. The argument stands on a knife edge because those people who havent backed have a reason why they havent backed. They miss out on so much stuff that a character creator is minimal in tow.

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

If Steven does the right thing and addresses this, acknowledging that putting a 75$+ pay wall on character creator is indeed Pay-for-Convenience, goes against hes previous vision for the game, and won't be in the game - I will come back to this thread, just to have a good laugh.

And if he doesn't do that, or if access is also given out to people that purchase subscriptions before the servers go live, will you come to this thread to say you were wrong?

Also, I am still waiting on you providing a screenshot of Steven saying the game would release in December 2020. It's an easy opportunity for you to prove yourself right - and prove me wrong (which is a rarity on these forums, no doubt a number of people would thank you for it).

I mean, it's easy to fond, according to you. You have no real reason not to post a screenshot if the comment, assuming the comment says what you claim it says.

The only real reason you have for not posting it is if it in fact says what I assume it says - in which case I understand you not wanting to post it, as it would prove that I understand it more without having even seen it than you understand with having read it first hand.

I guess I could just @ one of the regular posters here that also use Discord and ask them if they are able to find it, but I am really not one to assume others would want to spend time on a discussion that they are not directly involved in.

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