There shouldn't be quest markers.

At least if exploration is supposed to be a part of the gameplay. In a game where you're supposed to explore the world, having quest markers that tell you precisely where to go is like having an FPS with an in-built aimbot. I think it's better to have the quest describe where to go based on proximity to landmarks. EG - "We've been having trouble with dire bears attacking travelers. We discovered a den of dire bears to the west of the ancient pillars to the south of here. Go cut down their numbers so they stop venturing out into the roads".

It's also a nifty way of getting players to pay attention to quest texts and conversations with NPCs, since they know they need to read it to know where to go and what to do. You can throw bits of lore into the texts to familiarize players with the story of the setting without resorting to big exposition dumps. So, for instance, you could throw in a line about how the ancient pillars were built by the old empire or that the dire bears are normally peaceful, but are being twisted by demonic corruption or whatever.

Anyway, my ten cents.

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Comments

maouw

I think most people on the forums agree.

There was already an official Dev Discussion on the topic a while back:
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/45931/dev-discussion-21-quest-breadcrumbs/p1

winner909098

I think it should depend. If its heading to the wilderness to explore and find some relic, you shouldnt know where it is. If its going to an enemy guild and taking out the scholar, you should know where it is. The information provided should make sense for who is giving the information.

Ostaff

No fairy lights or blazing icons makes for more immersion and interactions with the world and its NPCs. The only things worth doing are the things that take effort. A general guide in direction is fine, but exploration should be key.

Cadac

Didn't Steven make a comment about this in the last livestream?

Ostaff

Cadac wrote: »

Didn't Steven make a comment about this in the last livestream?

Yes. He said that there are no quest giver icons and that players will need to refer to the color of the NPC's name in order to tell what type of NPC they were.

Songcaller

Let's hope they implement colour blind options too.

Karthos

In the stream, if you noticed when Steven started the "find the pages of the book" quest, on his map, several markers did appear to show up.

I took this to be "quest markers", as in they mark the general area where you can complete the quest, and this is what I took the original comment to be pertaining to.

pgt1027

Karthos wrote: »

In the stream, if you noticed when Steven started the "find the pages of the book" quest, on his map, several markers did appear to show up.

I took this to be "quest markers", as in they mark the general area where you can complete the quest, and this is what I took the original comment to be pertaining to.

Yes, this.

To be honest, I don't think it should even be the general area. The quest text should tell you where to go.

But it looked as though the precise location of each page was marked on the map. A step in the wrong direction, in my opinion.

Moe1

I don't mind having some sort of quest marker on an NPC. With that said, I don't want the quest locations or any other quest markers shown on the map nor do I want to see my player location or my parties location on the map. Give me a compass and some landmarks/points of interest on the map and let me figure out the rest.

Maezriel

Adding them as a toggle should be easy enough...let those who want to just rip through the levels do so and those who'd rather take their time do that

Ostaff

Moe1 wrote: »

I don't mind having some sort of quest marker on an NPC. With that said, I don't want the quest locations or any other quest markers shown on the map nor do I want to see my player location or my parties location on the map. Give me a compass and some landmarks/points of interest on the map and let me figure out the rest.

Wow.... have you ever played a game where your "party" member did not show on your mini map? I have... and trust me... you will hate it. There are some QoL that are just plain needed, and having your party members show up on your map is definitely one of them.

Maezriel

Ostaff wrote: »

Moe1 wrote: »

I don't mind having some sort of quest marker on an NPC. With that said, I don't want the quest locations or any other quest markers shown on the map nor do I want to see my player location or my parties location on the map. Give me a compass and some landmarks/points of interest on the map and let me figure out the rest.

Wow.... have you ever played a game where your "party" member did not show on your mini map? I have... and trust me... you will hate it. There are some QoL that are just plain needed, and having your party members show up on your map is definitely one of them.

Agreed.

There are WAY too many people that want the game to be this hyper realistic thing but honestly it'll just turn into a chore...there's a very good reason that even survival games don't have these mechanics

Khronus

What I don't want is to have a quest log with 100 quests in it and zero direction. I can't stand seeing a ton of quests because I tend to feel the NEED to complete them. If I have to wander around everywhere hoping to find stuff, I would hate it. The problem with this isn't that there are no markers, it's when there are too many quest to get on top of that.

I would like to see some simple quests focuses. We're explorers there to BUILD the world. We should have rare item turn ins that can be found in dungeons or through artisan expertise. We should have a local blacksmith requesting us to kill dangerous beasts that are threatening the town. Blanket quests are ok if they fit the lore and local stories. Witcher quests are a great example of what I thoroughly enjoyed. Trash like watch dogs or cyberpunk are not good IMO.

Ostaff

Khronus wrote: »

I would like to see some simple quests focuses. We're explorers there to BUILD the world. We should have rare item turn ins that can be found in dungeons or through artisan expertise. We should have a local blacksmith requesting us to kill dangerous beasts that are threatening the town. Blanket quests are ok if they fit the lore and local stories. Witcher quests are a great example of what I thoroughly enjoyed. Trash like watch dogs or cyberpunk are not good IMO.

All of that. yup! I would love some dynamic quests with meaning in place of stale, old, all the time used, static quests.

ariatras

pgt1027 wrote: »

Karthos wrote: »

In the stream, if you noticed when Steven started the "find the pages of the book" quest, on his map, several markers did appear to show up.

I took this to be "quest markers", as in they mark the general area where you can complete the quest, and this is what I took the original comment to be pertaining to.

Yes, this.

To be honest, I don't think it should even be the general area. The quest text should tell you where to go.

But it looked as though the precise location of each page was marked on the map. A step in the wrong direction, in my opinion.

It's more often then not just the lazy way out. It's the difference between Morrowind and Skyrim for example.
Morrowind has you read the quest and gives you a detailed description of where it is. So once you're in the location, you can follow the instructions. Sometimes, when the NPC doesn't know the -exact- location it gives a general ballpark and you can use some degree of logic to find out where it is.

If you're over at my place, or something. And I don't know, say we decide to play on the Switch together. I can go, I have a second controller, go grab it. Then a quest marker magically appears. Or I say, go on, grab the controller, it's in the cupboard over there, middle drawer.

I think you see what I mean

On a general note. Ashes is turning out to be a rather pretty game to look at. Following quest markers detracts from that, as you pay less attention to the world and just follow said markers. Rather than looking for landmarks described in your quest.

pgt1027

Maezriel wrote: »

Adding them as a toggle should be easy enough...let those who want to just rip through the levels do so and those who'd rather take their time do that

Can't agree with that. Not, at least, if exploration is supposed to be a part of the gameplay.

Like I said, it's as if you had an FPS with an in-built aimbot. And what is an aimbot? It's almost universally thought of as a cheat, because it streamlines and automates a core element of the gameplay and thus gives those that use it an unfair advantage. The same goes with quest markers, they do the job of exploration for you just like an aimbot does the job of aiming for you. And once you allow cheats, they quickly become the new standard and anyone who isn't using them is playing sub-optimally.

ariatras

pgt1027 wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

Adding them as a toggle should be easy enough...let those who want to just rip through the levels do so and those who'd rather take their time do that

Can't agree with that. Not, at least, if exploration is supposed to be a part of the gameplay.

Like I said, it's as if you had an FPS with an in-built aimbot. And what is an aimbot? It's almost universally thought of as a cheat, because it streamlines and automates a core element of the gameplay and thus gives those that use it an unfair advantage. The same goes with quest markers, they do the job of exploration for you just like an aimbot does the job of aiming for you. And once you allow cheats, they quickly become the new standard and anyone who isn't using them is playing sub-optimally.

Like deciding NOT to use Soldier 76's ultimate xD

Maezriel

pgt1027 wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

Adding them as a toggle should be easy enough...let those who want to just rip through the levels do so and those who'd rather take their time do that

Can't agree with that. Not, at least, if exploration is supposed to be a part of the gameplay.

Like I said, it's as if you had an FPS with an in-built aimbot. And what is an aimbot? It's almost universally thought of as a cheat, because it streamlines and automates a core element of the gameplay and thus gives those that use it an unfair advantage. The same goes with quest markers, they do the job of exploration for you just like an aimbot does the job of aiming for you. And once you allow cheats, they quickly become the new standard and anyone who isn't using them is playing sub-optimally.

I mean, it's questing...not an auto-clicker for the boss fight

I turn off breadcrumb trails and quest markers in every other game I play such as Skyrim and Fable b/c that's how I like to play, but there are times where I just want to turn off my brain and check things off the list so having the option is fine and doesn't affect your gameplay in the slightest

Cadac

During the Pre-Alpha 4K GM Gameplay video, the 1hr45min one, at about 8min in, they picked up some quests in a village stage node to kill some tigers, or some such, but they did not know where to go to find them. I see markers of some kind on Steven's mini map, but they could be gatherables? Anyway they went out, and killed some tigers, but were the wrong ones. This was made some 8 months ago, so maybe now all quest targets have markers, or only some? Idk.
Good question for Q&A maybe.

XVI

Yeah, disagree. If you want no quest markers to keep yourself immersed, toggle off and more power to you, enjoy the game. Me? I don't want to have to figure things out, I want to go, kill, loot, and level up. I like to be efficient and task-oriented.

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