Race and Class Combinations - Should the decision have weight?

So from my show on Friday we got into a discussion on Race and Class Combinations and how much weight should those combinations have?

Here is the segment:

https://youtu.be/c2r8Gpejh9w

What I'm wondering though is how much weight should those decisions have? Should one sub race be better at the martial classes and the other at the magical?

And if so, what about the hybrid classes?

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Enigmatic Sage

Patsold wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Patsold wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

interesting video and discussion.

In my perspective, there will always be those players who will look for the meta and cookie cutter builds because that's their play style even if it has a miniscule advantage in some way. Other players may decide to pick their race and class based off aesthetics, lore and immersion for fantasy.

melee example

in my opinion, if sub race A1 has that higher strength than their counterpart of A2's increased stamina as an example, is it going to cater more to their specific play style or build via the skill tree etc.

Race should matter because maybe A1 wants to have that increased strength for weapon/damage as an example regardless of archetype choices. With there being so many options for different classes and changes to how that archetype performs, the sub races may excel in minor ways in the different play styles and archetypes.

By this I refer to fighter/fighter vs fighter/tank vs fighter/rogue etc. Each sub race could have their advantages in different parts of each build and play style (which creates a lot of depth when choosing a archetype and race!)
will those advantages and disadvantages be drastically significant? More than likely not. But, there is potential for some meta gaming opportunity.

IIRC their goal was to base the class balance around larger scale combat and group play vs a 1vs1 style as there is no such thing as true/perfect balance in MMORPG's. (people need to get that illusion out of their head that perfect balance exists in video games like mmorpgs)

Who knows, maybe the players decision to play something completely off meta might be the clutch build that saves the day from time to time because of it's unique choices for its class.

In terms of religion from the video, I believe the divine nodes and the religious choices could even affect the racial benefit further for different classes. If A1 strength was chosen for a class that is not meant to use strength as much except perhaps for heavier armour efficiency and some melee, but a religion may boost specific qualities to boost their non strength abilities of the class and archetype, then that could be an additional variable as well.

This is pure speculation with not knowing anything of divine nodes and religions yet, so I may just be over imaginative. But they mentioned religions could be worth looking in to.

Maybe not all the abilities for your classes choices require strength, but your utility and purpose comes from supporting by debuffing and you want better mobility for say a bard class. (again, just speculating on stats and racials)

It's a good think they didn't go too linear with archetypes and classes. Adds a lot of flavour in a different ways when deciding what one wants to play as.

Great discussion suggestion!

I agree with you in all points. Now we just have to know what exactly these race bonuses are. Skills? Attributes bonuse? We'll have to be patient first. But I generally find the attributes bonuse bad. a dwarf can do everything what a elf can ,only worse, and that is unfair.

very good point!

im assuming you're referring to a racial abilities versus racial attributes/stats?
many games get their inspiration from DnD mechanics. More specifically, banes and boons. (permanent buffs and debuffs at character creation)

In order to gain something selectively specialized to your race, you have to sacrifice something of situational potential value.

IE specific weapon/magic type increase by X% but it costs you resistances/defence by Y%

EDIT:

maybe they're adding in a mechanic like this with religion and faith by having some penalties for switching faith and choices in late game versus character creation.

This could make deciding node types to develop much more indepth

Maby every Sub race have a Magic / physically part of " buff".

nice idea , maby they do it

reading the religious benefits now of having temples in divine nodes village +

currently according to their wiki, you can acquire unique augments, stats, abilities, recipes, titles, quests etc depending on your level of faith from said temples during events and sieges!

so that's an interesting variable.
Maybe there will be some sort of bane and boon system in relation to religion outside of those controlled variables (events/sieges).
very interesting.

Guess we will have to see how race and class selection tie in to this late game mechanic.

DesyncGaming

Worst part of WoW classic for me was every Mage being the exact same and people legit getting upset that i rolled as the race/character i wanted instead on min/maxing

Enigmatic Sage

DesyncGaming wrote: »

Worst part of WoW classic for me was every Mage being the exact same and people legit getting upset that i rolled as the race/character i wanted instead on min/maxing

ah, the elitist meta gaming experience where if you dont play the same way as the pro's or websites tell you, you're just bad and the list of insults continue from toxicity... lol

Patsold

dont forget ,if you want to join a grp and its full of meta gamers.
If you have the "fals" race and class combo they instant kiks you

Enigmatic Sage

Patsold wrote: »

dont forget ,if you want to join a grp and its full of meta gamers.
If you have the "fals" race and class combo they instant kiks you

what is a "fals" race? nothing is coming to mind at the moment

Patsold

The" wrong" race, sry for my english

Enigmatic Sage

Patsold wrote: »

The" wrong" race, sry for my english

no worries! I thought it was a reference to some specific game design.
I was like.. nope, dont recall that one.. lol

Jahlon

I just want to toss out here I'm really happy with everyone's ability to have a productive conversation that hasn't resulted in name calling or derogatory statements. Well done community!

unknownsystemerror

Jahlon wrote: »

I just want to toss out here I'm really happy with everyone's ability to have a productive conversation that hasn't resulted in name calling or derogatory statements. Well done community!

Jahlon's a chode!

Rhuric

I think every race and class should be viable but that certain races or sub races should excel in one area or another. I wouldn't want the advantage to be game breaking but noticeable within reason.

PoliceGirl

These kinds of little bonuses should be actually useful while at the same time non-discouraging of untraditional combos.

Yah, what @Rhuric said.

Luthienstorm

Should one race be better on martial and the other at magical? Not necessarily. Honestly, I don't think it matters that much. It's more important that the skill makes the choice matter. Good PvE skills are the best way to do this with good cool downs. PVE racial skills should outshine pvp racial skills.

Ironhammer

I should have a decent amount of weight. PIcking your race should feel like an impactful decision that adds flavor to your characters build. I know it's an unpopular opinion but min/maxers will be min maxers it's no reason to not have those fun character building decisions.

I say this as some one who is going to be a dwarf ranger.

Optics2134

Rhuric wrote: »

I think every race and class should be viable but that certain races or sub races should excel in one area or another. I wouldn't want the advantage to be game breaking but noticeable within reason.

Agreed to the fullest even if it is a small buff like 3% crit dmg or movement speed attached to race selection.
Make a game where thought out builds matter... Unique character builds MATTERS... Ownership of a build and its uniqueness is part of the emersion of an MMO... Cookie cutter crap is boring AF and leads to nothing but a BIS gear grind and hot garbage pvp... Some extent of the holy trinity is a must in MMOs in my opinion and I have played just about every mmo since well the beginning....

SeasonShepherd

I think races should have skills that relate to the core environments, like the sea dwarf should get bouns near or on sea like better at building ship's and so on.

Xilfarth

I think race should have a bearing on your main and sub job AS LONG AS there is gear available to help you compensate for your deficit.

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