How everyone feeling about the game?

It's coming up to the 4 year anniversary of the launch of the Ashes of Creation kickstarter and I'm wondering how everyone is feeling about the game. How have your expectations faired over the years? Do you feel let down or do you feel like things have gone roughly as you would imagine?

For me personally this is basically how I imagined it to go. MMO development takes a long time and I'm pretty happy with the progress its made.

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Biccus

@Noaani

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqDjAzZ2gAQ&t=7646s

Noaani

Biccus wrote: »

@Noaani
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqDjAzZ2gAQ&t=7646s

Do you have a time stamp for that? Even just a rough one. If I am going to comment, I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

Biccus

Noaani wrote: »

Do you have a time stamp for that? Even just a rough one. If I am going to comment, I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

7646s (2:07:25)

Noaani

Right, so you'll be able to hover over a users nameplate to see information.

All this means is that instead of standing around as a level 1 player harvesting, I just need to be in a group of people that you are attacking.

I mean, players in PvP are inconsiderate and move around all the time, making it near impossible to hover over their nameplate (which is how you get the information, according to Steven in that video).

So here's the question - if they are making that information available to players, why are they making it impossible to actually find when it is needed? An icon for class, armor type, weapon type and level should all be on the nameplate - since this is likely all information we are able to jump through hoops to get. Give players the option to turn which ever of these off or on as they wish, but make this basic information easily accessible to players *when we need it*.

While I appreciate learning something I didn't know (honestly, thanks), this isn't exactly Intrepid putting information in players hands as they need it, and is actually kind of just another contradiction.

Edit to add; basic information should NEVER be in a hover UI element. These elements should be either for in depth information, or for tutorial type information. This is just bad UI design if they put basic information here - it would mean we can't turn off hover boxes, which is standard for me in any game that allows it.

Honestly, having this information available in this manner rather than in a convenient way so that we can assess multiple threats simultaneously just makes me angry. Who thought this would be a good idea?

Anonymous332

Havent tried it yet.

Vhaeyne

I just have to say after watching that link @Biccus. I learned something new, and I hate it.

Seeing armor type and class... ok sure. Seeing if there armor grade is higher or lower than yours... ok.

Seeing other players level though...

To me that is a huge mistake. It creates a dynamic where you know too much about your enemy. It takes the danger of the frontier out of the game. You know immediately what sort of threat to expect when encountering a new player. There is no thinking twice about it. I have played games with open world PvP where you know almost nothing about you enemy and I have played ones that tell you level, health, gear score, ect. To me the lack of information makes the whole open world experience better.

When you invite someone to a party sure it should tell you hp,level,ect for PvE. Outside of a group you should have to gage how strong someone is by how far there hp bar moves when you land an attack or how far a mobs hp bar is when they land an attack if you are trying to gage their power without fighting them. It just takes some of the fun of trying to asses threat out of the game.

Disagree if you want, but I don't like it.

Gubiak

I feel like I finally have something to be worth waiting for. I am trying to be patient and want this game to succeed but I am also a starved mmo fan that has been waiting for something like his for a long time.

I am more optimistic than I probably should be.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Disagree if you want, but I don't like it.

I was actually expecting a post like this from you.

If it makes you feel any better, while the information is available, that is more of an "available", rather than available.

This method for gaining information is literally only any good when there are three or four targets, and even then, it's a waste of time.

While I would rather see the information made readily available to players, I am of the opinion that it should either be readily available or not there at all - there shouldn't be a need to hover your mouse over a moving target to get that information.

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

I was actually expecting a post like this from you.

That moment when you realize you are not just shouting into a void.

Having the information available is not a deal breaker. I just don't like that part of the adventure is lost.

Considering that the UI is not going to be mod-able. I have to agree on your point. If we are going to have this information. Hovering over players would just be annoying.

Still I could see coordinating information over discord for quicker threat assessment. I know we always call out targets anyways in world PvP/Arena. Someone is going to notice which target is weaker in a team fight, and call it out.

There is just something about having to feel watch health bars move over knowing exact numbers that is so much more thrilling to me.

Biccus

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Still I could see coordinating information over discord for quicker threat assessment. I know we always call out targets anyways in world PvP/Arena. Someone is going to notice which target is weaker in a team fight, and call it out.

It'll be hard to notice who's the weaker enemies due to you not being able to really tell their health %

Vhaeyne

Biccus wrote: »

It'll be hard to notice who's the weaker enemies due to you not being able to really tell their health %

Yeah. That is part of it, but not the complete story.

Plenty of scenarios where health bars are moving up and down, and you need a real fix on which target is more worth your time. Especially in group world PvP.

Biccus

yeah but with no enemy health bars at all just deteriorating nameplates, it'll probably take a little time to tell if you're attacks are effective. Some may prefer that, I'm currently on the fence.

I'm hoping that some of this gets overhauled though alpha feed back though. In large scale PvP I think it's important to be able to know what's a good target to go for without having to keep your mouse hovered over targets.

Mages having to hover over everyone just to see who's wearing plate vs cloth isn't my idea of a fun experience.

How to do hover over people when you're trying to use an action combat skill?

Rhuell

I feel like this method of information gathering makes time to engage an important aspect of the game.

You can have a scout secretly collecting information and distributing it for a planned attack.

Two armies or groups just staring at each other in anticipation for a fight will have time to build up their knowledge base for a more educated, strategic encounter.

Two groups that stumble upon each other and immediately clash swords wouldn't have time to gather this information, so it shouldn't be as readily available. You'll figure it out once they start using their skills.

Same goes for the group/ individual that gets ambushed.

It may be bothersome, but I believe this method makes sense.

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Seeing other players level though...

To me that is a huge mistake. It creates a dynamic where you know too much about your enemy. It takes the danger of the frontier out of the game. You know immediately what sort of threat to expect when encountering a new player. There is no thinking twice about it. I have played games with open world PvP where you know almost nothing about you enemy and I have played ones that tell you level, health, gear score, ect. To me the lack of information makes the whole open world experience better.

I can see why it would be necessary for a character's level to be available upon inspection. I have to imagine in a real world scenario, there would be visible indicators of skill and experience including musculature, body language, the way they walk or talk, an aura of confidence. The characters level makes up for the games inability to display these indicators that may have someone second guessing their decision.

Crocos

Biccus wrote: »

yeah but with no enemy health bars at all just deteriorating nameplates, it'll probably take a little time to tell if you're attacks are effective. Some may prefer that, I'm currently on the fence.

I'm hoping that some of this gets overhauled though alpha feed back though. In large scale PvP I think it's important to be able to know what's a good target to go for without having to keep your mouse hovered over targets.

Mages having to hover over everyone just to see who's wearing plate vs cloth isn't my idea of a fun experience.

How to do hover over people when you're trying to use an action combat skill?

I would say I regards to having to hover over people to see what armour they have, that will likely be changedif it becomes an issue. It wouldn't be that hard to add in a indicator on the UI to show what your current targets armour type is.
Regardless this is one of the issues which can be solved with extensive testing.

Vhaeyne

@Biccus
I did not say no health bars. I said I don't like that everyone can see the numbers on the health bars. Seeing the health bar move is a partial indicator of how squishy they are relative to you.

You can also kind of tell if someone is squishy based on what moves that are using. What weapon they have in their hand. You can try to deduce parts of their build by seeing what they do. Combat experience is key to all of this.

I just have a preference for less information.

[quote="Biccus;c-282912"
How to do hover over people when you're trying to use an action combat skill?[/quote]

Very quickly? LOL

Rhuell wrote: »

I can see why it would be necessary for a character's level to be available upon inspection. I have to imagine in a real world scenario, there would be visible indicators of skill and experience including musculature, body language, the way they walk or talk, an aura of confidence. The characters level makes up for the games inability to display these indicators that may have someone second guessing their decision.

You can get that through how people move and play.

VmanGman

@Noaani The conversation about the trinity started with you saying that the trinity is contradictory to PvP focused content. Now you’re switching to tanks can’t survive or thrive solo. As I mentioned with Albion, the trinity is integral to Albion’s PvP content. There is no contradiction here.

Yes, if your home is attacked by monsters you most likely want to defend it and hopefully you can put your differences aside to do so. If you don’t want to share a home with your opponent then leave. No one is forcing you to stay. There is no contradiction here.

I see now what you’re referring to regarding information being withheld. Still, that is no way contradicting anything.

Nitpicking on classes being changed and how the lore doesn’t 100% make sense can barely be considered a contradiction. They’re just letting the lore take a quick backseat for the sake of gameplay. That’s very common in games. You’re really reaching with this one.

Once again PvE content being put into a PvP environment is a clear design decision that many open world PvP sandbox games share. That is simply not a contradiction.

You really are confusing yourself and letting your bias affect you here. These aren’t contradictions. They’re just things you don’t like.

Biccus

@Vhaeyne
I know you didn't but my point is there are no health bars to look at, just nameplates that deteriorate through damage. Also moves aren't that reliable when everyone can wear any armour and hide it behind a cosmetic.

I'm open to less information but I would like to have an idea on how to approach the enemy that I'm coming up against. As an example I'll go back to being the mage. I want to target the enemy who's wearing plate gear. Currently, with cosmetics there could be literally no way to know that without hovering over the enemy 1 at a time.

Vhaeyne

Biccus wrote: »

@Vhaeyne
I know you didn't but my point is there are no health bars to look at, just nameplates that deteriorate through damage. Also moves aren't that reliable when everyone can wear any armour and hide it behind a cosmetic.

I'm open to less information but I would like to have an idea on how to approach the enemy that I'm coming up against. As an example I'll go back to being the mage. I want to target the enemy who's wearing plate gear. Currently, with cosmetics there could be literally no way to know that without hovering over the enemy 1 at a time.

Check out last months PvP video. There is clearly a health bar for the target. It is in the top center of the screen. What I have not seen is floating HP bars above characters heads. Which is not something I am against. It is a visual indicator of how hurt someone is. I have no problem with that.

If it bleeds we can kill it...

Biccus

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Check out last months PvP video. There is clearly a health bar for the target. It is in the top center of the screen. What I have not seen is floating HP bars above characters heads. Which is not something I am against. It is a visual indicator of how hurt someone is. I have no problem with that.

Done and yes, it does look that way! But same time it also doesn't show info on their class/armour which is definitely not good to see. I'll have to assume that's just not implemented yet. Clearly combat interface is very much not finished..

dewan58

Crocos wrote: »

It's coming up to the 4 year anniversary of the launch of the Ashes of Creation kickstarter and I'm wondering how everyone is feeling about the game. How have your expectations faired over the years? Do you feel let down or do you feel like things have gone roughly as you would imagine?

For me personally this is basically how I imagined it to go. MMO development takes a long time and I'm pretty happy with the progress its made.

To be fair the game hasn't been in true full development for more than 3 years. That first year they had a very small team and it felt like they were mostly just laying out some of the basics of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if we are a good 2 years from release. Games like WoW were in development for 5 years and that was a much older game.

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