bigepeen wrote: » Noaani wrote: » On the other hand, if you go the 1v1 arena where you pick a character on your account to use, you have the fairly high expense of needing to maintain a number of characters at the highest level in order to be able to conform to the games meta at each election. This is why I think the combat should be skill-based, and not overly dependent on gearing. Of course, gearing should give an advantage, but it shouldn't be the only thing that matters in pvp imo.
Noaani wrote: » On the other hand, if you go the 1v1 arena where you pick a character on your account to use, you have the fairly high expense of needing to maintain a number of characters at the highest level in order to be able to conform to the games meta at each election.
Noaani wrote: » I'm not sure how anyone could think a FFA arena wouldn't require at least as much time as a scientific node in regards to networking and forming alliances, as well as an economic node in regards to equipping a few dozen players. On the other hand, if you go the 1v1 arena where you pick a character on your account to use, you have the fairly high expense of needing to maintain a number of characters at the highest level in order to be able to conform to the games meta at each election. If the winner of a military node is simply the player that spends the most amount of time gearing up their proxy, the leadership contest will be all too similar to that of a divine node - the arena part of it will become trivial. Additionally, if that is indeed what the plan is, that would mean Intrepid need to continuously add new upgrades to these proxies, as players absolutely will attempt to max them out, and if players are able to max out their proxy the point you are making here about needing to spend time to become mayor falls very, very flat. Basically, if what you are saying is true, Intrepid are committing to adding a form of perpetual progression to the game for a fight that happens once a month. Seems like a bad idea to me.
Rhuell wrote: » Noaani wrote: » I'm not sure how anyone could think a FFA arena wouldn't require at least as much time as a scientific node in regards to networking and forming alliances, as well as an economic node in regards to equipping a few dozen players. On the other hand, if you go the 1v1 arena where you pick a character on your account to use, you have the fairly high expense of needing to maintain a number of characters at the highest level in order to be able to conform to the games meta at each election. If the winner of a military node is simply the player that spends the most amount of time gearing up their proxy, the leadership contest will be all too similar to that of a divine node - the arena part of it will become trivial. Additionally, if that is indeed what the plan is, that would mean Intrepid need to continuously add new upgrades to these proxies, as players absolutely will attempt to max them out, and if players are able to max out their proxy the point you are making here about needing to spend time to become mayor falls very, very flat. Basically, if what you are saying is true, Intrepid are committing to adding a form of perpetual progression to the game for a fight that happens once a month. Seems like a bad idea to me. A military node shouldn't require the same type of time investment that a scientific node requires.
Leonerdo5 wrote: » A tournament bracket that potentially holds hundreds of player would be almost impossible to arrange and schedule. Certainly it wouldn't work if it was 1v1, and you wanted every citizen to participate. It would take days, and half the people wouldn't be available at the scheduled time of their match...
bigepeen wrote: » Leonerdo5 wrote: » A tournament bracket that potentially holds hundreds of player would be almost impossible to arrange and schedule. Certainly it wouldn't work if it was 1v1, and you wanted every citizen to participate. It would take days, and half the people wouldn't be available at the scheduled time of their match... Ok, let's do the math. In the worst case, since each server can have a max of 10,000 people and there is a max of 5 metropolises, that's an average of 2,000 people per metropolis if we assume that literally everyone lives inside a metropolis node (which certainly won't be the case). Now, in the worst case of 1v1, we would only need a maximum of 12 rounds to determine a winner (2^11 = 2048). Intrepid would need to set a match time limit, because people could maliciously stall out the mayoral process to infinity without it. If we limit each match to 15min, which should be plenty for 1v1, then it would take a total of 15min*12, or 3 hours to finish the entire tournament. This is definitely doable in 1 day. Everyone would need to commit 3 hours + an extra hour for a small amount of wiggle room between each round, on one day of the month to determine the new mayor. This does not seem very hard to arrange or schedule.
VmanGman wrote: » @bigepeen The goal is 10,000 concurrent players and up to 50,000 total per server.
Noaani wrote: » Why?
Rhuell wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Why? I, personally, would prefer to have a unique experience for each node's mayoral election process. My understanding is that these node types are meant to be vastly different. And so the mind sets of it's citizens, to include the type of leader they desire and the method used to prove the leader fulfills this desire, should be different. And, while I'll admit that the idea I posted earlier regarding the method of obtaining champion upgrades is a redressing of the divine nodes time investment, there is a big difference in the why of it. Divine nodes (assumption incoming) will require it's mayoral candidates to perform tasks that help it's citizens. This can be achieved through gathering quests, eliminating external threats to it's citizenry, etc. Military nodes would require feats of strength in order to obtain champion upgrades, culminating into the ultimate feat of strength, that of greatest warrior amongst the populous.
Noaani wrote: » I agree that the way you go about being the leader of a military node should be different to the way you go about being the leader of a divine node, but that isn't what you said, nor what I asked for clarification on.
Rhuell wrote: » I, personally, would prefer to have a unique experience for each node's mayoral election process.
Noaani wrote: » You said it shouldn't take as much time to be the leader of a divine node as it would to be the leader of a military node, and that is a baseless statement as far as I am concerned. If being the mayor of each node type of the same level confers the same abilities to the player, then the time investment should be on par with each other.
Noaani wrote: » If the military node is to be decided via proxies, then gearing those proxies to a state that makes it viable to win should take up roughly that same amount of time (minus the time spent in the arena itself).
Rhuell wrote: » Plus, as you continued to state, the divine node doesn't seem to have a cap on how much time you invest. So, more than likely those divine node mayoral candidates will be putting significantly more time into the process.
Noaani wrote: » Rhuell wrote: » Plus, as you continued to state, the divine node doesn't seem to have a cap on how much time you invest. So, more than likely those divine node mayoral candidates will be putting significantly more time into the process. None of the nodes have a time cap. Economic node mayors can always spend more time making money, and more time making allies to assist them. Scientific node mayors can always spend more time getting allies, and more time making coin in order to buy votes. Divine node mayors can spend more time doing the quests, and more time making allies to assist them in doing those quests faster. Military node mayors need this same time input. That is able to be provided for if players are in the arena, but if it is a proxy with a limited number of upgrades, there is no way at all to spend this same amount of time.
Noaani wrote: » This is a totally different debate, but honestly, when you are talking about the 1v1 arena for military node leadership (especially if it is a metropolis), you should just assume that there will be many highly skilled people involved. Since these people will all be highly skilled, the only real advantage they are able to get over each other is the gear they are able to equip their proxies with - and so it still stands to reason that the player that spends the most time getting this gear will most likely be the winner.
Rhuell wrote: » This seems like the most reasonable, and equitable, method for the military node, then. 1v1 bracket style where there is an advantage to putting in the time to gear out your champion. That being said, a highly skilled player with minimal time investment into their champion should still have a chance of beating a low skill player with heavy investment. I don't think gearing out your champion should be an auto win. Just, a way to improve your odds.
Noaani wrote: » Rhuell wrote: » This seems like the most reasonable, and equitable, method for the military node, then. 1v1 bracket style where there is an advantage to putting in the time to gear out your champion. That being said, a highly skilled player with minimal time investment into their champion should still have a chance of beating a low skill player with heavy investment. I don't think gearing out your champion should be an auto win. Just, a way to improve your odds. It will obviously only be a way to increase your odds. The other thing that would be key with this to me is that the proxy needs to reset after each month. All other nodes do this - it is only fair that a military node have every aspect of it's mayoral race reset for each month. It is also the only way a new player would ever be able to have a shot. This also drastically lowers the amount of content that would be needed to make this work. Rather than needing new content each month, it would essentially be the same content each time. As long as there is more content than players are likely to get through in a month, then all is well.
Tyranthraxus wrote: » This seems to be more of an intended and viable mechanic for specifically the Military Node-type, rather than a reason for concern. Different strokes for different folks - and Nodes.
Yuyukoyay wrote: » It actually is using your PvP ability because the champions will most likely be balanced to be as close to each other as possible. Provided you gear them properly. So if anything it will be the best PvP test in the game compared to World PvP that isn't going to be designed around 1 vs 1s being viable at all. The balancing makes a big difference because they are going to be balanced around the possibility to be self sufficient.
Yuyukoyay wrote: » It actually is using your PvP ability because the champions will most likely be balanced to be as close to each other as possible. Provided you gear them properly. So if anything it will be the best PvP test in the game compared to World PvP that isn't going to be designed around 1 vs 1s being viable at all. The balancing makes a big difference because they are going to be balanced around the possibility to be self sufficient. With the current system people will be given pretty much equal chances of being the mayor if they put the same effort.
