Question/concern about the military node mayor selection system.

I have a concern about the mayor selection system of the military node.

I believe there's going to be a battle royale/arena of sorts to select who the most 'powerful' player is of that node, which in return will become mayor. How will 'peeling' be tackled? If members of the same guild all join this battle, what will stop them from protecting this one singular player and sacrificing themselves till that particular person is the last one standing?

I can already imagine where a powerful guild joins the fight, and they literally surround the one player (prob guildleader) and protect them to make sure they become mayor. You could argue its just another 'tactic' but i don't think this seems very fun.

To me it makes sense that you should only be able to select one person per guild, that way the guilds themselves need to select their ''champion'', although this completely leaves solo players out of the equation.

What is your take on this? Any potential solutions? Or has this already been addressed previously?

Thanks.

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Yuyukoyay

I can outright say that if they drop the champion idea I will never be a citizen of a military node ever. xD It literally won't be possible with my class choice. So I'm against using the actual classes in the game because it doesn't really give any support role in the game a chance to win fairly. It literally would be the local guild winning control of the node every single time which isn't fun for anyone opposing them.

Noaani

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

I can outright say that if they drop the champion idea I will never be a citizen of a military node ever. xD It literally won't be possible with my class choice. So I'm against using the actual classes in the game because it doesn't really give any support role in the game a chance to win fairly. It literally would be the local guild winning control of the node every single time which isn't fun for anyone opposing them.

If the idea of the leader of a military node being the "strongest", we it were, then class choice should be a part of that.

Also, you don't need to run to be mayor in order to be a citizen of the node, so your claim that your class choice makes being a citizen of a military node imposible is just an odd statement.

Yuyukoyay

Noaani wrote: »

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

I can outright say that if they drop the champion idea I will never be a citizen of a military node ever. xD It literally won't be possible with my class choice. So I'm against using the actual classes in the game because it doesn't really give any support role in the game a chance to win fairly. It literally would be the local guild winning control of the node every single time which isn't fun for anyone opposing them.

If the idea of the leader of a military node being the "strongest", we it were, then class choice should be a part of that.

Also, you don't need to run to be mayor in order to be a citizen of the node, so your claim that your class choice makes being a citizen of a military node imposible is just an odd statement.

Not many are going to want to join a node they have absolutely no chance to be mayor in when the point of the node is to represent individual achievement. I wasn't really planning on it anyway, but I'm super not going to do it under those circumstances.

Noaani

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

I can outright say that if they drop the champion idea I will never be a citizen of a military node ever. xD It literally won't be possible with my class choice. So I'm against using the actual classes in the game because it doesn't really give any support role in the game a chance to win fairly. It literally would be the local guild winning control of the node every single time which isn't fun for anyone opposing them.

If the idea of the leader of a military node being the "strongest", we it were, then class choice should be a part of that.

Also, you don't need to run to be mayor in order to be a citizen of the node, so your claim that your class choice makes being a citizen of a military node imposible is just an odd statement.

Not many are going to want to join a node they have absolutely no chance to be mayor in when the point of the node is to represent individual achievement. I wasn't really planning on it anyway, but I'm super not going to do it under those circumstances.

I'm curious, what do you mean by "the point of the node is to represent individual achievement." I assume you mean the point of node leadership, but I am unsure.

I know I for one have absolutely no interest in being mayor of a node. There may be other positions I find myself falling in to in regards to node leadership roles, but not mayor (patron guild leader is a probability).

FuryBladeborne

I'm pretty sure that a lot of people have no interest in spending a large amount of gaming time on all the responsibilities of being mayor. I know that I don't.

Also, I wouldn't assume that the purpose of a military node is to represent individual achievement. We don't know much about military nodes (or all of the nodes) at this point to decide what kind of player would be best suited for a military node.

Consider that potential superpower,
"Potentially one of the contenders for our Military Metropolis unique benefits would be access to a kind of hero system based cross-server competition for specific archetypes, but we're still in discussions about that.[2] – Steven Sharif"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Military_nodes

The option to have a cross server competition for best in class available would appeal to certain players that do not necessarily want to spend their time designing node development, creating caravan systems for the node (such as scheduling, and assigning NPC guards), etc.

Tyranthraxus

From everything that we know so far, the Divine Nodes are where individual achievement is paramount; Anyone whose goal is to become a mayor without being backed by other players/guilds will be able to compete for the mayorship of a Divine Node.

Military Nodes *hypothetically* work based on individual achievement, but it's been my experience that hard-core PvP'ers typically have a guild to back them in PvP'ing other groups and with whom to complete PvP content; It much feels as though the Military Nodes are more PvP-centric, and thus oriented towards PvP-guilds' interests.

Patsold

I dont read all of your Textes

But this is what i want to say.

Influence in the Selection can be (Battel royal) :

Friends /Guild members
Map
Spawn
Time Limit
Circle
Class

My opinion on it :

Friends /guild members :
Like i read , give Players in the Arena the same look( like a default Amore skins )Hide they names.

Map:
procedurally generated Maps . Peopel cant make a Meta . It will become heavyer to prepare. And its allways diffrent. You cant realy meet on a Place whti your firends because you never know how the map becomes. ( dk how big the FFA arena will become ). Make the map confusing and the ways tight.

Spawn: Implement a system that Friends spawn in diffrent lokations. ( if your friend/guild mate is in the lobby you spawn in the further corner in the game). If a player have like 20 friends / guild mates , try to split them in diffrent matches.

Time limit: Make it fast at beginning , slower in lategame. You need to be in drill to get some benefits(?) of the map. Like High ground for RangClasses , or Close corners for meele.

Circle:
A normaly Battel Royal game have a Circel that becomes tighter and tighter. we need this in this mode. Or peopel have infinity time to talk to friends ect.

Class
Yea ... Like the Wiki says , Classes are not balanced for 1vs1 BUT FFA is not allways 1vs1. You have some chances but you need to play clever and you need some Luck like :
Circle; There is allready a fight you can interrupt ; Time Limit ; CC ; Puch back Skills ( to trow enemys into the circle); ect. ect.

I think there will be a high chance to get a Solo class Major but there is the potencial of luck. If a class like Tank+Heal can be good in lategame BR , so can a Roughe like invisible like all the game long and wait for the best matchup.

Why not 1vs1 ?
Wiki says : "The reason for the champion idea is because the game isn't balanced for 1v1 PvP"

Jxshuwu

Patsold wrote: »

I dont read all of your Textes
But this is what i want to say.

Influence in the Selection can be (Battel royal) :

Friends /Guild members
Map
Spawn
Time Limit
Circle
Class

My opinion on it :

Friends /guild members :
Like i read , give Players in the Arena the same look( like a default Amore skins )Hide they names.

Map:
procedurally generated Maps . Peopel cant make a Meta . It will become heavyer to prepare. And its allways diffrent. You cant realy meet on a Place whti your firends because you never know how the map becomes. ( dk how big the FFA arena will become ). Make the map confusing and the ways tight.

Spawn: Implement a system that Friends spawn in diffrent lokations. ( if your friend/guild mate is in the lobby you spawn in the further corner in the game). If a player have like 20 friends / guild mates , try to split them in diffrent matches.

Time limit: Make it fast at beginning , slower in lategame. You need to be in drill to get some benefits(?) of the map. Like High ground for RangClasses , or Close corners for meele.

Circle:
A normaly Battel Royal game have a Circel that becomes tighter and tighter. we need this in this mode. Or peopel have infinity time to talk to friends ect.

Class
Yea ... Like the Wiki says , Classes are not balanced for 1vs1 BUT FFA is not allways 1vs1. You have some chances but you need to play clever and you need some Luck like :
Circle; There is allready a fight you can interrupt ; Time Limit ; CC ; Puch back Skills ( to trow enemys into the circle); ect. ect.

I think there will be a high chance to get a Solo class Major but there is the potencial of luck. If a class like Tank+Heal can be good in lategame BR , so can a Roughe like invisible like all the game long and wait for the best matchup.

Why not 1vs1 ?
Wiki says : "The reason for the champion idea is because the game isn't balanced for 1v1 PvP"

I like this idea honestly, but they'd all have to be implemented to work.
If everyone looks the same, but map isnt randomly generated, it wont matter.

Didnt they talk about it being an 'arena' where people can spectate? Or will it be like spectating through the participants eyes?

Patsold

i read someting at wiki , it says " 20-Man Free-For-All (Deathmatch)" and " spectator". So if many peopel want to become the major , i think there wil be more matches.

its hard to balance this. but for unique systems you need unique solutions.

bigepeen

Patsold wrote: »

I dont read all of your Textes
Class
Yea ... Like the Wiki says , Classes are not balanced for 1vs1 BUT FFA is not allways 1vs1. You have some chances but you need to play clever and you need some Luck like :
Circle; There is allready a fight you can interrupt ; Time Limit ; CC ; Puch back Skills ( to trow enemys into the circle); ect. ect.

What if I'm in the largest guild in the node, and we all join the FFA but make plans to immediately coordinate on 3rd party apps and not attack guild members? What are you going to do, force me to attack someone?

Sorry, but I'm telling you right now, FFA won't work in practice. I mean, it will work for determining a mayor, but it would be less about pvp skills, and more about what guild you're a leader of, and how big and coordinated it is.

Patsold

bigepeen wrote: »

Patsold wrote: »

I dont read all of your Textes
Class
Yea ... Like the Wiki says , Classes are not balanced for 1vs1 BUT FFA is not allways 1vs1. You have some chances but you need to play clever and you need some Luck like :
Circle; There is allready a fight you can interrupt ; Time Limit ; CC ; Puch back Skills ( to trow enemys into the circle); ect. ect.

What if I'm in the largest guild in the node, and we all join the FFA but make plans to immediately coordinate on 3rd party apps and not attack guild members? What are you going to do, force me to attack someone?

Sorry, but I'm telling you right now, FFA won't work in practice. I mean, it will work for determining a mayor, but it would be less about pvp skills, and more about what guild you're a leader of, and how big and coordinated it is.

FFA Can Work
1vs1 Can not Work

Thats why i write this" suggested solutions "

If a game is based on Grp Balance instead of 1vs1 Balance you cannot make 1vs1 Arena´s
it wont work , because its not fair
its a fun killer and a reason to quite the game for me.
Imagin you are forced to play a class if you want to become major.

in a ffa you put some Luck in it. Maby a new way to win (push enemys into the circle.)
sure Large grps can abuse it , thats why i write so many stuff that help , not solves the problem.
but it can work. in a fun way

bigepeen

FFA can only work if you assume that everyone is naive and won't take advantage of a flawed system. That's why I said that FFA won't work in practice. I'll admit that it does sound really fun in theory when everyone is naively attacking each other, but I'm telling you it won't work. There is nothing stopping large groups from exploiting a broken system, and when there is an exploit and the reward is large (getting mayor of a node, especially a metropolis, is a huge deal), then you can expect it to be exploited.

1v1 tournament bracket does work, and it's way more fair than a FFA. Almost every professional competition uses tournament brackets because they are fair and not easily exploitable. If there is even one team that doesn't want to throw a match, you will have to beat that team fair and square to be the winner. It's more fair than FFA in the sense that you don't even have to fight to become mayor in a FFA if you're working with the largest guild. In 1v1, at least you will have to fight, and the mayor will be guaranteed to have fought and won against the best competition.

If you don't like 1v1, then maybe they should do 3v3 instead. I'm not against this idea.

Doing FFA will result in a broken system that revolves around politics determining the mayor, which they are trying to avoid for the military node.

Patsold wrote: »

its a fun killer and a reason to quite the game for me.

You would quit the game over how a mayor is elected in 1 node type out of 4 nodes types? That's a huge overreaction. If you don't like how that specific node elects a mayor, then be a citizen of one of the 3 other node types instead.

No one is forcing you to live in a military node.

Patsold

bigepeen wrote: »

FFA can only work if you assume that everyone is naive and won't take advantage of a flawed system. That's why I said that FFA won't work in practice. I'll admit that it does sound really fun in theory when everyone is naively attacking each other, but I'm telling you it won't work. There is nothing stopping large groups from exploiting a broken system, and when there is an exploit and the reward is large (getting mayor of a node, especially a metropolis, is a huge deal), then you can expect it to be exploited.

1v1 tournament bracket does work, and it's way more fair than a FFA. Almost every professional competition uses tournament brackets because they are fair and not easily exploitable. If there is even one team that doesn't want to throw a match, you will have to beat that team fair and square to be the winner. It's more fair than FFA in the sense that you don't even have to fight to become mayor in a FFA if you're working with the largest guild. In 1v1, at least you will have to fight, and the mayor will be guaranteed to have fought and won against the best competition.

If you don't like 1v1, then maybe they should do 3v3 instead. I'm not against this idea.

Doing FFA will result in a broken system that revolves around politics determining the mayor, which they are trying to avoid for the military node.

Patsold wrote: »

its a fun killer and a reason to quite the game for me.

You would quit the game over how a mayor is elected in 1 node type out of 4 nodes types? That's a huge overreaction. If you don't like how that specific node elects a mayor, then be a citizen of one of the 3 other node types instead.

No one is forcing you to live in a military node.

Hm I see we have other "ways to think"
all that you have said can be counteracted.
I see our reasoning like this:

BR: is bad because players can coordinate.

1vs1: is bad because you can only play duel classes. You first have to win 10x normal duels and the one guild has 10x free matches. maby not only 10x maby like 30x ect.

At the end of the day, the balance always determines the number of guild members in the selection program. if 80% of the participants are guild members or friends, you can hardly make it fair to the 20%. in one way or another, there will always be disadvantages. The anonymization of the players, the time pressure, the confusion of the map, the map procedural generation or the high number of maps are approaches of a solution.

Yes, a monster in 1vs1 can, provided he has the right class against a class, win every match. Since I assume that every class has its counterpart, this is partly invalid. and i think there are no tactics in that, options for class and fun.

Biccus

1v1 isn’t doable for balance reasons (outside of the champion system)
FFA is definitely abusable by larger groups that can communicate
Maybe it’s just because it’s the idea I like the most but I believe the best way to decide it is in a group arena tournament. X vs X with a time limit. The leader of the group being the mayor candidate.

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