Recluse74 wrote: » rikardp98 wrote: » Cataphract wrote: » No combat trackers. AoC should focus on immersion and community-oriented gameplay, not data processing and hotkey rotations. For those who really care about how much damage they do, set a timer on your phone and start attacking a mob. Calculate how much health the monster has left after one minute. How is something that you do not use during combat immersion breaking? Self reflection and what you could have done better is immersion enhancing, someone telling you that their addon did the math and it says you suck, is immersion breaking.. even if it is after the fight.
rikardp98 wrote: » Cataphract wrote: » No combat trackers. AoC should focus on immersion and community-oriented gameplay, not data processing and hotkey rotations. For those who really care about how much damage they do, set a timer on your phone and start attacking a mob. Calculate how much health the monster has left after one minute. How is something that you do not use during combat immersion breaking?
Cataphract wrote: » No combat trackers. AoC should focus on immersion and community-oriented gameplay, not data processing and hotkey rotations. For those who really care about how much damage they do, set a timer on your phone and start attacking a mob. Calculate how much health the monster has left after one minute.
Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes. How many years after launch were they available, because I played that game at launch, I can tell you they were not used then and for a few years after. They were used at launch, but since ArenaNet had the same philosophy as Steven had now- banningnpeople they catch using them - people using them weren't overly overt about the fact. It was a few years in to the game when they diacoverds that more than 50% of the playerbase were running them, and so they realized they had to alter their stance. While things may go different for Ashes, there is no real reason to assume that will be the case. First of all... There was zero content in GW2 at launch or for the next 2 years that required a tracker I'm not saying there was. I am saying people used them regardless. That is like saying you used a calculator on math test where the answers were provided.... And you still have not answered my question pointed towards you in the last two posts I wrote....
Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes. How many years after launch were they available, because I played that game at launch, I can tell you they were not used then and for a few years after. They were used at launch, but since ArenaNet had the same philosophy as Steven had now- banningnpeople they catch using them - people using them weren't overly overt about the fact. It was a few years in to the game when they diacoverds that more than 50% of the playerbase were running them, and so they realized they had to alter their stance. While things may go different for Ashes, there is no real reason to assume that will be the case. First of all... There was zero content in GW2 at launch or for the next 2 years that required a tracker I'm not saying there was. I am saying people used them regardless.
Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes. How many years after launch were they available, because I played that game at launch, I can tell you they were not used then and for a few years after. They were used at launch, but since ArenaNet had the same philosophy as Steven had now- banningnpeople they catch using them - people using them weren't overly overt about the fact. It was a few years in to the game when they diacoverds that more than 50% of the playerbase were running them, and so they realized they had to alter their stance. While things may go different for Ashes, there is no real reason to assume that will be the case. First of all... There was zero content in GW2 at launch or for the next 2 years that required a tracker
Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes. How many years after launch were they available, because I played that game at launch, I can tell you they were not used then and for a few years after. They were used at launch, but since ArenaNet had the same philosophy as Steven had now- banningnpeople they catch using them - people using them weren't overly overt about the fact. It was a few years in to the game when they diacoverds that more than 50% of the playerbase were running them, and so they realized they had to alter their stance. While things may go different for Ashes, there is no real reason to assume that will be the case.
Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes. How many years after launch were they available, because I played that game at launch, I can tell you they were not used then and for a few years after.
Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes.
Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers.
rikardp98 wrote: » How is something that you do not use during combat immersion breaking?
rikardp98 wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes. How many years after launch were they available, because I played that game at launch, I can tell you they were not used then and for a few years after. They were used at launch, but since ArenaNet had the same philosophy as Steven had now- banningnpeople they catch using them - people using them weren't overly overt about the fact. It was a few years in to the game when they diacoverds that more than 50% of the playerbase were running them, and so they realized they had to alter their stance. While things may go different for Ashes, there is no real reason to assume that will be the case. First of all... There was zero content in GW2 at launch or for the next 2 years that required a tracker I'm not saying there was. I am saying people used them regardless. That is like saying you used a calculator on math test where the answers were provided.... And you still have not answered my question pointed towards you in the last two posts I wrote.... We do not need a combat tracker, we want it to analyze. It's not like a calculator to a test with the answer, it's like an answer sheet with all solution and deep analysis around those answers. The analysis around the answer is not needed, but some people enjoy that.
Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes. How many years after launch were they available, because I played that game at launch, I can tell you they were not used then and for a few years after. They were used at launch, but since ArenaNet had the same philosophy as Steven had now- banningnpeople they catch using them - people using them weren't overly overt about the fact. It was a few years in to the game when they diacoverds that more than 50% of the playerbase were running them, and so they realized they had to alter their stance. While things may go different for Ashes, there is no real reason to assume that will be the case. First of all... There was zero content in GW2 at launch or for the next 2 years that required a tracker I'm not saying there was. I am saying people used them regardless. That is like saying you used a calculator on math test where the answers were provided....
Dygz wrote: » rikardp98 wrote: » How is something that you do not use during combat immersion breaking? Because the analysis and suggestions for tweaking strategies is all from a numbers perspective. "Your DPS numbers are low." "Your Healing numbers are low." The focus is all on what the numbers say. Rather than discussing how to synergize abilities and augments and tactics based on the characters' organic observations during combat. Steven wants to get closer to putting the RP back into MMORPG. I dunno what you are expecting people to say. You get to maintain the few bad apples philosophy. That's not convincing to the people who don't agree with you. It's not going to change Steven's mind. What's the point of continuing to assert it? I think we all understand what your perspective is, we just won't ever agree with it. You want the tracker. Steven doesn't want the tracker. Since you don't need it, that should be fine.
Recluse74 wrote: » rikardp98 wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes. How many years after launch were they available, because I played that game at launch, I can tell you they were not used then and for a few years after. They were used at launch, but since ArenaNet had the same philosophy as Steven had now- banningnpeople they catch using them - people using them weren't overly overt about the fact. It was a few years in to the game when they diacoverds that more than 50% of the playerbase were running them, and so they realized they had to alter their stance. While things may go different for Ashes, there is no real reason to assume that will be the case. First of all... There was zero content in GW2 at launch or for the next 2 years that required a tracker I'm not saying there was. I am saying people used them regardless. That is like saying you used a calculator on math test where the answers were provided.... And you still have not answered my question pointed towards you in the last two posts I wrote.... We do not need a combat tracker, we want it to analyze. It's not like a calculator to a test with the answer, it's like an answer sheet with all solution and deep analysis around those answers. The analysis around the answer is not needed, but some people enjoy that. No offense, but those comments from me, were to Noanni and specifically about GW2... not just trackers in general. I do not mind that you responded, just that you were off topic. Anyway.... Why do you all still feel like you have to explain to me what a tracker is? I know what they are, I know what they do. They help you become a better player.. that help, gives you an advantage over players who do not use them. So if you become a top guild in a game that does not allow trackers.. in the spirit of the game, you have basically cheated. Argue all you want.. that is literally what is happening. I do not care that you like it, I do not care that it helps you... If it is not allowed, it is plainly not allowed. Now, I know people will still use them anyway, tis the nature of gaming.. Still does not mean I have to like it. We simply come from a different line of thinking of what a game is.. I play for the journey... you play for the end game. The issue with an MMO, is that they are designed for the journey, but players still rush to the end game... So much so, that MMOs have changed the way they make their games and make end game content. Games that focus on end game content from the start.. usually have no room to grow and end up disappointing their player base, as no one has really figured out what it should be. Some have come close... but no true solution. So... have at it... dps your way to end game that will come to a screeching hault when PvP comes knocking on your door.. unless you plan to stick to the 20% instanced PvE which will not all be opened at the same time due to Nodes. I hope you enjoy your rinse repeat gaming
akabear wrote: » Internet searches find all sorts of things sometimes! Would perhaps the following be a reason there is a push for combat trackers!https://advancedcombattracker.com/https://ibb.co/W6sy0Hk
akabear wrote: » @NoaaniACT name and insignia alias chosen for Ashes forums is coincidently the same as Advancedcombattracker, maker of trackers for multiple MMORPGs Makes sense now why you have advised that if they are permitted or not you will be using one ACT has website advertising tracker for FFXIV, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, League of Legends ACT website charges for these trackers. Web search shows ACT has been in the business of making trackers as early as 2012.. perhaps further. What conclusions should the community take from this?
Vhaeyne wrote: » \If he wanted to make money off of ACT his time would be better spent being one of the ACT devs and adding support for more popular games.
Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Recluse74 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Casual players will not be affected at all because Ashes will not have combat trackers. They said this with GW2 as well, because they took a similar stance to the one Steven is taking now. Combat trackers are very common and openly used in that game, as will be the case in Ashes. How many years after launch were they available, because I played that game at launch, I can tell you they were not used then and for a few years after. They were used at launch, but since ArenaNet had the same philosophy as Steven had now- banningnpeople they catch using them - people using them weren't overly overt about the fact. It was a few years in to the game when they diacoverds that more than 50% of the playerbase were running them, and so they realized they had to alter their stance. While things may go different for Ashes, there is no real reason to assume that will be the case. First of all... There was zero content in GW2 at launch or for the next 2 years that required a tracker I'm not saying there was. I am saying people used them regardless. That is like saying you used a calculator on math test where the answers were provided.... No. It's more like saying many people used a combat tracker in an MMO on content that didn't need it, because many people just enjoy using combat trackers. In fact, that is exactly what it is. --- I didn't answer your question because literally no MMO has not had combat trackers availiable for it in some form at launch since at least before UO. I can't name an MMO that failed because it didn't have a combat tracker, because I can't name an MMO that didn't have a combat tracker. UO had combat trackers, L2 had combat trackers (one of the guys that devloped a combat tracker for L2 is working on one for Ashes), even Runescape had combat trackers.
Stormfyre wrote: » Honestly I'm excited to play an MMO that isn't going to be cluttered up with a million addons and just have everything you need built in. That said something that worries me as a guild leader is friendly competition, for example in wow I have 2 hunters in my guild who play the same class and spec and are constantly competing with each other for top dps/performance and they love to bounce ideas off each other for rotation/talents/stat prio/etc. Without any way to measure yourself in Ashes how can they continue their friendly rivalry? I'm also worried about how to spot and deal with slackers in my guild in Ashes since people tend to take the path of least resistance, if I have a healer that throws up a hot on the tanks and then alt tabs to watch anime during a boss fight how would I as GM know unless I'm watching everyone casting? (impossible in large group sizes). If we're wiping because of no healing going out how can I identify its the lazy healer and not slap the blame on the entire heal team? (which would suck for everyone who is really trying). I propose a very simplified "meter" that only the group lead is able to see that just provides a breakdown of either active time casting abilities/hitting the mobs/moving around or the ability to see what spell and how often the person is pressing it just to be able to see everyone is participating or at least trying. That or allow only the group lead to see dps/hps meters. It doesn't help with the friendly competition aspect but idk what would. I'd honestly really love the option to "opt in" for dps/hps meters in specific content like only the gm/group in lead in large scale content, or anyone in small groups of 2-3, or perhaps have some ingame target dummies that display dps/hps and you can only see it there.
ViBunja wrote: » This is easy, how do you measure fighters IRL without DPS meters and other addons?
Nagash wrote: » ViBunja wrote: » This is easy, how do you measure fighters IRL without DPS meters and other addons? The amount of blood, sweat and broken bones
Recluse74 wrote: » Your argument seems to fall on the fact that all of these games have trackers now... but you cannot show that these games used trackers heavily at launch.
ViBunja wrote: » Nagash wrote: » ViBunja wrote: » This is easy, how do you measure fighters IRL without DPS meters and other addons? The amount of blood, sweat and broken bones No, you either go into a competition to perform feats. Light have them to fight the same enemy and see damage taken, and time taken to defeat the enemy. Or spar against each other.
