Mage Class Design

There isn't enough info out for you to learn how to be an Archmage period, let alone the best Archmage.
All depends on what augments you choose. And then you have to figure the gear you need to support your abilities and augments.
You might also want to study at a Scholar's Academy.
You'll have to play to know.

All Mage's will feel like a Mage.
But a Shadowmancer will play significantly differently than an Archmage.
Augments create significant changes to the abilities they're attached to.

FuryBladeborne

"If you are a mage primary with an summoner secondary class you're really going to be able to pull from the identity of that summoner: Being able to temporarily put a servant on the battlefield that might be this fire elemental... Instead of firing off a fireball you summon this fire elemental that surrounds your target and deals this damage over time and perhaps even slows them or decreases their attack speed by entangling or encumbering them with their attacks from the summons momentarily. It's the idea behind the secondary classes really being able to to skirt the line with your traditional role as your primary archetype with the roles that identify your other archetypes.[2] – Steven Sharif"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Warlock

OP,
While I agree with what you are saying, I hoping that the visual and effect differences will generally be different enough to feel like a different class. In the example above, the standard mage fireball becomes a summoned fire elemental that temporarily surrounds and attacks the target and changes the damage from generally instant damage to damage over time while possibly causing a slow or attack speed decrease.

If we take this a bit farther and apply the third fireball augment (which turns fireball into an AOE), then perhaps there will be be multiple summons attacking all over the area instead of an instant blast of fire. Unfortunately, we just don't have any way to know for sure yet.

Dygz wrote: »

There isn't enough info out for you to learn how to be an Archmage period, let alone the best Archmage.
All depends on what augments you choose. And then you have to figure the gear you need to support your abilities and augments.
You might also want to study at a Scholar's Academy.
You'll have to play to know.

All Mage's will feel like a Mage.
But a Shadowmancer will play significantly differently than an Archmage.
Augments create significant changes to the abilities they're attached to.

I understand the different augments will play differently, but I don't want the Archmage, which is Mage Primary, Mage Secondary, to all fell the same with reskinned abilities to match the augment from the secondary mage choice. I want to be able to make many archmages and have them feel and play differently.

Archmage Gorosh, Fist of Flame, Archmage Celine, Winter's Bite, Archmage Zerath, Harbinger of Time. These names invoke different thoughts and feelings about what their abilities are. I don't expect a Fist of Flame to do the same motions as a Harbinger of Time, and when they do, it just lets me down when I think about it...

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

"If you are a mage primary with an summoner secondary class you're really going to be able to pull from the identity of that summoner: Being able to temporarily put a servant on the battlefield that might be this fire elemental... Instead of firing off a fireball you summon this fire elemental that surrounds your target and deals this damage over time and perhaps even slows them or decreases their attack speed by entangling or encumbering them with their attacks from the summons momentarily. It's the idea behind the secondary classes really being able to to skirt the line with your traditional role as your primary archetype with the roles that identify your other archetypes.[2] – Steven Sharif"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Warlock

OP,
While I agree with what you are saying, I hoping that the visual and effect differences will generally be different enough to feel like a different class. In the example above, the standard mage fireball becomes a summoned fire elemental that temporarily surrounds and attacks the target and changes the damage from generally instant damage to damage over time while possibly causing a slow or attack speed decrease.

If we take this a bit farther and apply the third fireball augment (which turns fireball into an AOE), then perhaps there will be be multiple summons attacking all over the area instead of an instant blast of fire. We don't have any way to know for sure yet.

Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough, but I do understand that adding in a different class to augment the spells will change them, but when I look at the augment of Mage for the Mage class, it says That there are 4 different schools that you can augment with.

So using your fireball example, If I choose to augment my fireball with teleportation, in theory that would mean an instant fire explosion on the target. This still feels the same as casting the fireball and watching it travel to the target before exploding. Just visually a little different.

I want to cast different spells of my choosing so I can specialize in a school of magic, instead of being told I have these spells, with these augments on them. I also understand this would make alot more work as far as coming up with alot of spells, but all other mmo's I have seen/played, all mages felt samey, except for the secondary effects of say freezing or burning.

Like i said in the original post, this is more just me voicing my concerns before it is waaaay too late and everything is completely set in stone. If the current system brings different feels and different ways to play specifically, the Archmage, then I will be happy.

FuryBladeborne

You have a point, they haven't said anything about casting animation changes for abilities. Its probably safest to assume that they will be the same between different classes.

I seems that your concern is specifically related to the differences between Archwizards, Mages, and the elemental augments. Looking at it this way, we haven't been told that there will be different ability effects between Mages and Archwizards. However, elemental effects may be quite different. If a fireball becomes a frost attack, the damage and effects all change, and the different versions are effected differently by different weather, then the 2 versions of the ability may only look similar in that they are both ranged and different in all other ways.

BTW, if a fireball becomes a teleporting fireball rather than a flying fireball that is a significant difference. Particularly in PVP. A teleporting fireball if far more likely to hit and the target has fewer (if any) options to defend. Also, it seems like such a change may move the spell between being action combat or tab target as well.

Changing a spell from high DPS to lower DPS + an effect such as freezing while while also changing the image of the spell not only looks like a new spell, it also changes the way the character is played. The character goes from presumably high DPS burst damage into more of a control and kiting character. Provided the numbers change enough, the characters must be played in very different ways.

We can only hope.

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

You have a point, they haven't said anything about casting animation changes for abilities. Its probably safest to assume that they will be the same between different classes.

I seems that your concern is specifically related to the differences between Archwizards, Mages, and the elemental augments. Looking at it this way, we haven't been told that there will be different ability effects between Mages and Archwizards. However, elemental effects may be quite different. If a fireball becomes a frost attack, the damage and effects all change, and the different versions are effected differently by different weather, then the 2 versions of the ability may only look similar in that they are both ranged and different in all other ways.

BTW, if a fireball becomes a teleporting fireball rather than a flying fireball that is a significant difference. Particularly in PVP. A teleporting fireball if far more likely to hit and the target has fewer (if any) options to defend. Also, it seems like such a change may move the spell between being action combat or tab target as well.

Changing a spell from high DPS to lower DPS + an effect such as freezing while while also changing the image of the spell not only looks like a new spell, it also changes the way the character is played. The character goes from presumably high DPS burst damage into more of a control and kiting character. Provided the numbers change enough, the characters must be played in very different ways.

We can only hope.

I do hope it turns out that way as well.

GroaningPhoenix wrote: »

I understand the different augments will play differently, but I don't want the Archmage, which is Mage Primary, Mage Secondary, to all fell the same with reskinned abilities to match the augment from the secondary mage choice. I want to be able to make many archmages and have them feel and play differently.

Archmage Gorosh, Fist of Flame, Archmage Celine, Winter's Bite, Archmage Zerath, Harbinger of Time. These names invoke different thoughts and feelings about what their abilities are. I don't expect a Fist of Flame to do the same motions as a Harbinger of Time, and when they do, it just lets me down when I think about it...

I'm not sure what that means, but...
There will be 4 schools of augments for Archmages.
In addition to that, there will be racial, social, religious and naval augments.

Casting animations are likely to look the same because the casting motions are probably going to be based on the abilities rather than on the augments. But, the visual effects are likely to look quite different.
You can be disappointed, I suppose... but expecting the devs to create different casting animations for every single augment that can be applied to one ability is unrealistic.

Don't forget that the season of the year, magical events and perhaps location will impact your magic.

tautau wrote: »

Don't forget that the season of the year, magical events and perhaps location will impact your magic.

I've been here for ages and I totally forgot that

Also the cleric/cleric path will allow clerics to control necro players and basically use them as summons, take them over at will and empty their warehouses. Did you forget that, too?

Or maybe I just made it up.....

tautau wrote: »

Also the cleric/cleric path will allow clerics to control necro players and basically use them as summons, take them over at will and empty their warehouses. Did you forget that, too?

Or maybe I just made it up.....

That you made up (thankful)

...you hope.

tautau wrote: »

...you hope.

I think clerics do more damage to undead if I remember

I thought Clerics do more damage to Corrupted? Makes sense that it would be to undead, too, I just don't recall that being stated specifically.

Dygz wrote: »

I thought Clerics do more damage to Corrupted? Makes sense that it would be to undead, too, I just don't recall that being stated specifically.

Undead, Corrupted its all the same.

Fun times ^^

In the second class choice, I think that the clerics can choose a light or dark path, perhaps choosing between powers against the Holy or the Undead somehow, IIRC.

tautau wrote: »

In the second class choice, I think that the clerics can choose a light or dark path, perhaps choosing between powers against the Holy or the Undead somehow, IIRC.

Yeah, I'm a bit concerned that the lore has taken a Christian view of zombies and undead being a "dark", "evil" and "Corrupted" path, rather than honoring other, non-Christian views of ancestral worship/prayer/summoning that have a more benign view.

Dygz wrote: »

tautau wrote: »

In the second class choice, I think that the clerics can choose a light or dark path, perhaps choosing between powers against the Holy or the Undead somehow, IIRC.

Yeah, I'm a bit concerned that the lore has taken a Christian view of zombies and undead being a "dark", "evil" and "Corrupted" path, rather than honoring other, non-Christian views of ancestral worship/prayer/summoning that have a more benign view.

I could go into a whole diatribe about the undead in games and fiction but if ashes wants them evil then that's that.