Misc. Game Mechanics

This post covers ideas that are just to simple to warrant their own post.

Having the ability to click on the map and see what is going on in that region if friendly players are there like League of Legends would be pretty useful in 250 vs 250 brackets

As developers I see you guys are putting a lot of effort into making cool looking weapons be nice if we could look at them close up and have ability to rotate them same thing with armour sets.

There is an old spell from Dungeouns and dragons called Chromatic Orb with 12 different effects or could be a weapon like a spear with sweep dazzle and impale abilities or just a mage spell like fireball with different effects. Think if you push lets say But lets say Chromatic Orb had only 7 effects then pushing that button could bring up the effect choices and press whichever one you want then automatically goes back to previous page. Aslo if you just push the Chromatic Orb button ounce then effect in box one is selected. Be pretty cool if we could arrange the order of the spell effects . Works very similar to page up and page down. And similar to pressing modifiers like shift alt and control and similar to stances. But what this does is introduces a two button sequence for abilities kind like in Tekken. Increases the number of abilities you can use without actaully increasing the number of keybindings that you need.

Be cool if pets could do stuff like open doors and pull levers or capture a flag. Well maybe not capture flag. Things is I play huntesr and well realized that pets can be to powerful in pvp, but there are a lot of other things that pets could do like have dnager sense track monsters. Plus be pretty cool if we could see a picture in a cloud of what they might be thinking. Like food they want to eat and player that just killed their master and wants revenge, or some toy to play with. Since rangers would be metally linked to pet then this would make sense. Just things that would make them more like a life long campanion than just a pet that does x damage.

That is all for now gents good day to you.

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bloodprophet

`In game Node chat channels will exist. Those that choose not to join a Discord server hosted by a guild or large group I don't think can or will be turned away in large open world PvP events.
Rift zone events are a good example here. People just run into the zone get a pop up to join a group or not and start doing their thing. No VC required.
How to force people into VC. As you said simple you can't.
Why worry about it? They don't want to join VC, Move along and do your thing. They don't join your group and don't benefit from it. Maybe they do ok maybe they just get wiped over and over.

Noaani

consultant wrote: »

In an open world event Poeple choose to particpate in event but no one will be requiring them to be in voice chat

I'm still unsure what events it is you are talking about here.

As I said earlier, sieges, guild wars and node wars will be organized (or premade groups, to use terms you understand). A number of people will that along that are not a part of that core, but they will be insignificant to the outcome.

I'm unsure what these 250 vs 250 events you are talking about are.

consultant

Noaani wrote: »

consultant wrote: »

In an open world event Poeple choose to particpate in event but no one will be requiring them to be in voice chat

I'm still unsure what events it is you are talking about here.

As I said earlier, sieges, guild wars and node wars will be organized (or premade groups, to use terms you understand). A number of people will that along that are not a part of that core, but they will be insignificant to the outcome.

I'm unsure what these 250 vs 250 events you are talking about are.

Open world is the Opposite of premade and instance pvp.
Battlegrounds are Open world Node vs Node is Open Node(1000 people and surrounding area. Guild wars will be structured cause of guilds.
In Node vs Node no one will picking who will participate. So Not a premade. Do you understand that. In a Node vs Node there will be a 3 day notice and the people that want too not the people that get picked will participate. There is a huge difference. In a premade the group leader decides who is going to participate in non premade the people decide if they are going to paritcipate regardless of weather or not they use voice chat or not.

Here is something from Ashes WIKI.

Battlegrounds are where PvP battles occur in the open world.[1] These are open world PvP zones that flag players as Combatants (purple).[2]

Caravans.[1]
Node sieges.[1]
Castle sieges (potentially).[3][1]
Objective based guild wars.[4]

I do not think you understand the definition of OPEN WORLD do not see how i could put it any clearer.

You might get some of the people in voice chat but not all the participants so voice chat will not work.

Matter of Fact have not heard any thing about instanced PvP other than Arenas.

Have not heard anything about premade pvp other than areas.

Obviously there will some organization but no one will be there say if you are not in voice chat you cannot play so voice chat will not work for ALL participants in these events with the exception of guild wars. I really do not see how I could explain it any clearer than that.

Same mechanics as a Open World Raid Boss. You and your guildies can group up and go to Raid Boss but you will not be able to get other people already there or that show up at the same time as you in your voice chat.

consultant

Just to be clear Open world means that lets say there is no limit on how many people can attend then the whole server could be there. So if lets say the Battleground Arithi Basin from wow was Open Word then the Entire Server could participate in that one event. Unlike WoW there will be only one version of the Event out in the Open World. In WoW you can have thousands of Arithi Basins going on at the same time Insanced PvP does not have to instant que). In Ashes of Creating it wil be like an Event like a Winter Dragon that starts attacking a Node and the people from that node who just happen to be online will defend. In Node vs Noce it will be Players vs Players not Dragon vs Players with three day notice so who ever can attend will and if they decide to be in voice chat they will but not required to.

Thing is if to many people are in one area sometimes servers crash.

Noaani

consultant wrote: »

I do not think you understand the definition of OPEN WORLD do not see how i could put it any clearer.

I understand it just fine.

What I think you do not get is that those people - people that are likely to include you - are inconsequential to the outcome.

Caravans are small scale - they will most likely only ever be 8 - 10 people per side. Your points make no real sense here.

Sieges and guild wars are going to have people planning and running them, and everyone of worth will be in on the plan. There will be random additional people, but those people do not matter - they can do as they please, join the chat or not, follow others or not, no one cares. If the people organizing the siege or guild war attempted to use the resources they have on hand to try and bring those players in to the fold, they would lose effectiveness, not gain it.

Node wars are likely to follow a similar pattern. Nodes will have a leadership structure, and most large nodes will likely have their own discord server and such as well. When a war is declared on a node, most players present will fall in behind perhaps two or three guilds, and those guilds are likely to work together for the period of the war.

You are right that no one will be there to say if you are not in voice chat you are not welcome. You are wrong that this is an issue.

bloodprophet

Seeking to understand.
People show up to an open world pvp event and don't join someone's Discord or in game VC.
Not seeing the problem here.
Is Node/zone chat enough?
Most likely these small group/solo players will show up have fun and leave. I am not seeing a problem here.
Are you asking for a way to FORCE people into voice chat some how?

consultant

Think we need to refocus on the issue which is because open world events like node vs node were no one is there to say you have to be in voice chat there fore voice chat not a viable form of communications for open world events liek Node vs Node.

Yes there is gong to be structure obviosly but voice not really beneficial to that structures. You guys were talking about how it was going work like Eve on line were voice chat is used for Large scale events. Not so in Ashes of creation. You were implicating that All the structure that was needed was voice chat, that could not be further from the truth.

See now you are agreeing with me that there would have to be other forms of sttructure so voice chat is not neccesarilhyy not an issue.

Here is another one see if you have a large scale pvp map or event then you could use a staging areas. For example let say a map has three PvP control points Red, Blue and Green lets say is a 100 vs 100 event. So 33 (34 in one)people could lets say get in Red Circle or Blue Circle or Green Circle if you were to mouse over the areas you could get the composition see how many healers tanks ans dps ther are. Very Quick and easy way to see were peoppel are going

But you guys were saying Hey Why not just use voice chat like in Eve online.

What you were implicating that All the structure that Ashes of Creation is going to put in for these events t could be replaced by voice chat.

So all your statements about Structure are good but previosuly you were implicating Who needs Structure?????? Just use voice Chat.

So now we finally agree that Voice chat cannot be used for Open World Events.
Right??????? I am very sure that the Devs at Intrepid Studios can make the events work a in an orderly manner with smart Game Mechanis. With out voice chat. That is a no brainer.

So no it is not going to work like Eve Online. Right?? Go back and read some the posts about that.

bloodprophet

I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?

maouw

bloodprophet wrote: »

I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?

This is the limit of MMO communication

and we must go...

even further...

BEYOND

Ramirez

bloodprophet wrote: »

I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?

Yup during a war try to type shoutcalls in ingame chat, no one will see and everyone will wipe because you are typing...

Dygz

I pretty much ignore in-game chat and focus heavily on Skype/Twitch/Discord voice chat.
Node Sieges - we don't have to be in formal raids. We don't have to listen to the Mayor.
I think we will already have our own sub-Node Discord groups based on the citizens who tend to be on when we play. Most likely there will also be a Node Discord channel, so...
While we don't have to formally join the raid, many will probably drop into the Node vs during a siege.

Castle Sieges - each Monarch can choose how they wish to manage communication with the defenders.

Khronus

In game chat channels are very primitive, easy to implement and work when it makes sense to use them. Organizing prior to an event, quick communication with someone you meet, whispers.....All of this is critically important.

My guild plans on using Discord to do everything organized but if we were unable to use in game chat, it would actually be less social. I don't want 100 people in the channel having conversations that can be typed. I'm hoping to be able to create our own channels for loot distribution information if possible.

People who say they don't read chat and only use voice chat......what? You are incapable of reading quickly? I understand the perspective but that is ridiculous.

For the largest scale events, there will be a host of things to defend and things to destroy. These should feel CHAOTIC. Obviously if you can get people into a discord, you will be able to organize better but for the most part, people who participate are going to either be there to dominate or be there to goof around. Most will know the goals and execute them, some will throw the fight and cause the loss. It's our job to organize these events in any way we can (including in game chat for those who won't join voice coms).

Sathrago

Ramirez wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?

Yup during a war try to type shoutcalls in ingame chat, no one will see and everyone will wipe because you are typing...

What people are attempting to tell people that are in the same boat as you is this: If players want to have better coordination/communication they will create a system that fulfills that role. However, if your node is just a bunch of rabble that don't even try to organize for large scale sieges and such beforehand then you deserve the reduced chance of winning.
Why should Ashes of Creation waste time on building a whole structure for something people in most cases will not use? Have you ever heard of anyone using the World of Warcraft in-game voice chat system? I have not and I played that thing since Vanilla.

bloodprophet

Go back and reread the OP's concern about not everyone being in VC.
I agree with you here can't force people into VC so then what? Chat channels are all that is left. If your group is not going to oginize and find a better way then that is a choice and choices have consequences.
Maouw I agree we need better ways to communicate. Chat channels are basic and work VC better. We need telepathy to really speed this up or maybe nueralink gets to get on the ball and make this stuff work so we can communicate faster.

Khronus

Sathrago wrote: »

Ramirez wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?

Yup during a war try to type shoutcalls in ingame chat, no one will see and everyone will wipe because you are typing...

What people are attempting to tell people that are in the same boat as you is this: If players want to have better coordination/communication they will create a system that fulfills that role. However, if your node is just a bunch of rabble that don't even try to organize for large scale sieges and such beforehand then you deserve the reduced chance of winning.
Why should Ashes of Creation waste time on building a whole structure for something people in most cases will not use? Have you ever heard of anyone using the World of Warcraft in-game voice chat system? I have not and I played that thing since Vanilla.

I have organized a lot of world pvp through in game chat and sometimes we destroyed the enemy and sometimes we lost. In WOW, I often had to type in battlegrounds to organize people on where to go. Half the time people were brain dead but we still won. I played a hunter at the time and consistently maintained top kills and top damage while still typing directions.

I think the issue here is people are just lazy. The people who complain about typing chat option in game are going to be the ones who just aren't good in AoC. It's quite possible these players don't grasp the magnitude of community vs guild size This game is going to be different than other games we have played. It is going to require us as a community to heavily focus on organization or fail miserably. We will ALL be able to organize amongst our guilds but those who organize the community with every possible tool available will be the ones who truly succeed both from a gaming perspective as well as a social one.

Forcing people into voice coms is just going to isolate those who simply do not wish to join them.

Dygz

Khronus wrote: »

People who say they don't read chat and only use voice chat......what? You are incapable of reading quickly? I understand the perspective but that is ridiculous.

In-game chat is mostly filled -like 95%- with stuff I have no interest in.
I think we sometimes used the guild chat in-game channel for the one or two people that didn't want to use voice chat.

Khronus wrote: »

For the largest scale events, there will be a host of things to defend and things to destroy. These should feel CHAOTIC. Obviously if you can get people into a discord, you will be able to organize better but for the most part, people who participate are going to either be there to dominate or be there to goof around. Most will know the goals and execute them, some will throw the fight and cause the loss. It's our job to organize these events in any way we can (including in game chat for those who won't join voice coms).

I'm expecting the defense objectives during sieges to be fairly static rather than highly chaotic.
There will likely also be patrols to alert when someone blows a hole in wall across town - that report should be able to come through voice chat as well.

But...we have to play to know.

Dygz

consultant wrote: »

If voice chat and chat channel is good enough for 250 people possible 500 hundred in 500 vs 500 bracket then well it could work. Said somethin about raid leaders and commanders well IF they are organized it works out.

Just getting 250 to 500 people in voice chat is a challenge. Been part of much smaller group with voice chat and still have communications problems.

But here are some possible problems

There are people that just like to talk all the time

People that like to point out everything that is negative about other players

Guess you could have commanders mute people but that power could be abused.

Some people paly music while playing games so you might hear that too and how are you going to figure out who that is.

In an ideal group were people listen and mostly only talk to give tactical info then yes it would work.

But yes IF voice chat and chat channel work for 250 people most of the time not trying to focus on exceptions Then something like this would not be needed. Like if you only got bad groups ounce in a while.

Last person I was in voice chat with like to sing while playing so.......

Had to search back to see where this thread started.

My expectation is that people will generally be in sub-channels.
For a siege, they might jump into the Node channel.
When I jump into Ashes Discord voice channels, I never hear people idly talking or talking negatively about other players. It's typically one person talking at a time, with an occasional bout of over-talking as a couple people are vying for the mic.
It's pretty common for people to mute their mics until they need to say something - especially if they have music playing. You can usually figure out who that is based on the active mic indicator.

Ramirez

Khronus wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

Ramirez wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?

Yup during a war try to type shoutcalls in ingame chat, no one will see and everyone will wipe because you are typing...

What people are attempting to tell people that are in the same boat as you is this: If players want to have better coordination/communication they will create a system that fulfills that role. However, if your node is just a bunch of rabble that don't even try to organize for large scale sieges and such beforehand then you deserve the reduced chance of winning.
Why should Ashes of Creation waste time on building a whole structure for something people in most cases will not use? Have you ever heard of anyone using the World of Warcraft in-game voice chat system? I have not and I played that thing since Vanilla.

I have organized a lot of world pvp through in game chat and sometimes we destroyed the enemy and sometimes we lost. In WOW, I often had to type in battlegrounds to organize people on where to go. Half the time people were brain dead but we still won. I played a hunter at the time and consistently maintained top kills and top damage while still typing directions.
.

So you are comparing an battleground where you have Standart objectives from wow with organized Open world pvp with guilds and alliances involved?

I advice you to maybe try Albion online or in a more casual vibe, gw2 wvwvw, you have situations if you act with 2 sec delay from shoutcaller is a guild wipe.... Now imagine typing and 500 people stop to read what they need to do.... You need to remember you Will have people with brains in other side, there is consequence to a Lost, isn't an walk in the Park like Wow battlegrounds here the majority are just farming honor...

Khronus

@Ramirez The fact that you need to stop what you are doing to simply read something in a chat log is why I will be standing above your corpse to loot your items while you are trying to figure out how you got demolished. Once upon a time, chat logs were the only thing people used and we did fine. Obviously, you have to be brain dead if you don't use voice coms to organize amongst your guild or any other organized group. My point comes into play when I am organizing more than just my guild. Don't be a fool.

Noaani

consultant wrote: »

In-game chat is mostly filled -like 95%- with stuff I have no interest in.

Filter it better.

If you are in a raid and you dont have a chat tab dedicated to raid chat, you are raiding wrong.

Even in guilds where everyone is using voice chat, you still have a tab specifically for raid chat.

If 95% of what is in your raid chat is stuff you have no interested in, why are you in that raid?

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