Action-based combat any worth ?

Now I come from a very hardcore pvp type of background dating all the way back to darkfall and mortal online where player skill on reaction, maneuvering, movement and stat management in the heat of battle decided your outcome. You could last against several players by only pure skill awareness and understanding of weapon type management.

Action-based combat gives exactly that, only a friction of it we have seen so far in the apocalypse version, yet what if the combat system expands more on it. The game could drive to become the next best pvp game what me and my boyz would look immensely forward to, especially since fast paced combat was always our thing, instead of the tab targeting which takes away a big chunk of skillset.

So far I have read that action based combat will be more rewarded, perhaps bigger cc's? more dmg output? I guess these kinds of advantages could decide some outcomes in mid battles. We will see. Will it be any useful and good in Ashes of Creation while having tab targeting around? I have high hopes for it to become more skillbased than just having abilities spammed in the right time and have some proper pvp coming out.

These are just thoughts that hopefully will find following. As a former pvp veteran I am looking forward to some challenging and exciting battles.
Myrmex over and out.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Trax

Former Darkfall and mortal player also, very much hoping for a viable FPS style combat like we saw in APOC. We’ll see…

Dygz

RPGs should not have FPS style combat.
I wouldn't categorize APOC as FPS style combat though.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

MMORPGs should not have FPS style combat.

Why not? Too fun?

ThexBlackxKnight

Dygz wrote: »

RPGs should not have FPS style combat.
.

I don't know , works just find in Fallout 76 which has been much improved since its horrible start.

Dygz

LMFAO
Okkaaaaaayyyy.

Dygz

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Why not? Too fun?

Different genres of fun.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Why not? Too fun?

Different genres of fun.

Why can't we have both?

When David Brevik first designed Diablo it was a turn-based RPG. Then his team convinced him to allow the turns to happen in real time, and they ended up creating one of the most successful RPG genres in gaming, the ARPG.

To me saying things like: "FPS or AC style moves have no place in MMORPGs." Is the type of thinking that holds back innovation. I think we can all agree Ashes is trying to be innovative. So, why try to hold it back?

Dygz

It's FPS v RPG.
The more FPS and RPG becomes the more difficult it becomes to synergize abilities with your teammates.
Which is a key aspect of RPGs.
With an FPS, you really just need to blow shit up. And, that is where the focus on DPS comes into play - to the detriment of roleplaying.

But, again, I don't categorize APOC combat as FPS moves.
So, that really could just be "semantics".
If the concept is APOC moves but is labeled FPS moves...sure, I'm OK with that.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

It's FPS v RPG.

Why?

Dygz wrote: »

The more FPS and RPG becomes the more difficult it becomes to synergize abilities with your teammates.
Which is a key aspect of RPGs.

You say that as if team-based FPS games don't exist and are not a huge success.
Coordinating with your team is key in any group-based FPS.

Dygz wrote: »

With an FPS, you really just need to blow shit up. And, that is where the focus on DPS comes into play - to the detriment of roleplaying.

That is not true and you know it. Strategy is crucial in FPS and AC games. Skill can only get you so far. Quick-thinking and good coordination are essential. Kind of like... MMORPGs.

Dygz

Synergizing abilities in an RPG is different than coordinating with your team in an FPS.
The coordination for an FPS is not the same as the coordination for an RPG.
That's like saying because you have great coordination for a relay race, you will have great coordination with a basketball team.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

Synergizing abilities in an RPG is different than coordinating with your team in an FPS.
The coordination for an FPS is not the same as the coordination for an RPG.
That's like saying because you have great coordination for a relay race, you will have great coordination with a basketball team.

Everything that can happen in an MMORPG can happen in an AC or FPS game.

You just don't like it.

Dygz

The problem is that the reverse is not true.
Just because something can happen in an FPS does not mean it can happen in an RPG.
And you are right. I don't like that.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

The problem is that the reverse is not true.
Just because something can happen in an FPS does not mean it can happen in an RPG.
And you are right. I don't like that.

There are MMOFPS and MMO Action Combat games.

I am fine if you don't like it. I just don't like you saying the systems are incompatible. There are a ton of examples of successful games that blend these systems.

Ashes is a trend setter. I want to support them continuing that trend.

Azherae

I'm gonna throw this link in here too even though it's sort of spamming/repetition from the other thread. Twice the complaints! (I'm serious, please complain).

Battles are at 3:00, 5:35, 6:55, 10:31, 11:20 (tower objective group battle), 13:25 (another), 17:00, etc

MyrmexMyrviking

Will the Action-based combat system in this game be any worth it in the long run? The difference between the two systems will become quite drastic once we get to play it. This game will live on based on pure guild vs guild pvp. Building/conquering/destroying nodes and carawans? Now that sounds like pvp all over the place, everything is going to be centered around it. But don't forget a PvPer is a Killer, he engages a player to take his life and his loot. A PvEr on the other hand will try to make this work via economic means.

I do see lots of potential here for killers to roam free while being hard corrupted making the gameplay even more harder and challenging. Hardcore pvp is in this game, if you are Red. Darkfall talking.
I can kill anyone, anyone is at my mercy, anyone can kill me. This is the pvp law in this game as I understood it, very sandbox mmorpg like darkfall or mortal online.

I do hear that corruption will put you at such a disadvantage, ability-wise that you will eventually lose, well ... I am keen to see that stuff.

Neurath wrote: »

The PvP will have a higher skill cap because of Bards and the short duration buffs Bards will have. We do not need full action combat to have a high skill cap. Even tab targeting needs skill in PvP. So far, the hybrid combat runs quite smoother with tab abilities enabled and tab targeting enabled when action combat is active. I think the current synergies between tab and action make for a better basis for combat.

Probably a good synergy if it works out.
You missed the point though how is that exactly making the action-based combat any more interesting? How will this game be attractive to any kinds of these action type players was my point. Will tab targeting not just be the main thing so action-based combat will be left in dust... cause lets be frank if I can save 1 sec to target you with tab target than action based I'd be tab target all the way for pvp.
It looks to me like they just half-heartedly have put it into place to make sure We get a bit out of it, though it looks more like a bait then actually something to be there to keep us in the long run.
Not talking about meaningful pvp here, but meaningfull skill in battle.

What I meaning to say is that Action-based combat will always be second in this case and it will turn me off from playing this kind of game.

Risk versus reward is higher? I like that so far. I hope they expand more on it.

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes is a PvX game...and... the focus of PvP combat is objective-based combat.

If that is the case where is the fun in that? I have been playing pvp games for the sole reason of pvp, no need to conquer if I can get the thrill of battle and prove my skill.

MyrmexMyrviking

Trax wrote: »

Former Darkfall and mortal player also, very much hoping for a viable FPS style combat like we saw in APOC. We’ll see…

All the hope is there mate! Lets see what goes, me and the boyz would love it.

maouw

Azherae wrote: »

I'm gonna throw this link in here too even though it's sort of spamming/repetition from the other thread. Twice the complaints! (I'm serious, please complain).

Battles are at 3:00, 5:35, 6:55, 10:31, 11:20 (tower objective group battle), 13:25 (another), 17:00, etc

Oh... I'm not sure I like that combat

That looks like there's 0 skill involved except strafing and mindless slashing... but I think it has more to do with the lack of skill variety?

Azherae

My understanding so far, from trying to sift through most people's philosophies and feelings, is that either people are very invested in illusions, or they need to spend more time really trying to hash this out with each other.

On the other hand, that character is quite rudimentary, I chose Feng Mao on purpose to 'get the maximum number of complaints', so to speak.

Or rather, to see what people don't complain about. I'll gather up the data (probably in the Combat Discussion thread) once enough people give input, I guess.

Dygz

Vhaeyne wrote: »

There are MMOFPS and MMO Action Combat games.

I think that is my point. Yes.
And Ashes is an MMORPG.
Not an MMOFPS and not an MMO Action combat game.

Dygz

Myrmex Thraxvagr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes is a PvX game...and... the focus of PvP combat is objective-based combat.

If that is the case where is the fun in that? I have been playing pvp games for the sole reason of pvp, no need to conquer if I can get the thrill of battle and prove my skill.

That is why I am warning you ahead of time that Ashes is a PvX game.

Child Item