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Action-based combat any worth ?
MyrmexMyrvagr
Member
Now I come from a very hardcore pvp type of background dating all the way back to darkfall and mortal online where player skill on reaction, maneuvering, movement and stat management in the heat of battle decided your outcome. You could last against several players by only pure skill awareness and understanding of weapon type management.
Action-based combat gives exactly that, only a friction of it we have seen so far in the apocalypse version, yet what if the combat system expands more on it. The game could drive to become the next best pvp game what me and my boyz would look immensely forward to, especially since fast paced combat was always our thing, instead of the tab targeting which takes away a big chunk of skillset.
So far I have read that action based combat will be more rewarded, perhaps bigger cc's? more dmg output? I guess these kinds of advantages could decide some outcomes in mid battles. We will see. Will it be any useful and good in Ashes of Creation while having tab targeting around? I have high hopes for it to become more skillbased than just having abilities spammed in the right time and have some proper pvp coming out.
These are just thoughts that hopefully will find following. As a former pvp veteran I am looking forward to some challenging and exciting battles.
Myrmex over and out.
Action-based combat gives exactly that, only a friction of it we have seen so far in the apocalypse version, yet what if the combat system expands more on it. The game could drive to become the next best pvp game what me and my boyz would look immensely forward to, especially since fast paced combat was always our thing, instead of the tab targeting which takes away a big chunk of skillset.
So far I have read that action based combat will be more rewarded, perhaps bigger cc's? more dmg output? I guess these kinds of advantages could decide some outcomes in mid battles. We will see. Will it be any useful and good in Ashes of Creation while having tab targeting around? I have high hopes for it to become more skillbased than just having abilities spammed in the right time and have some proper pvp coming out.
These are just thoughts that hopefully will find following. As a former pvp veteran I am looking forward to some challenging and exciting battles.
Myrmex over and out.
2
Comments
Or just killing for fun...
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Our game is designed for a PvX mentality. It is a lot of both worlds. And what we just described in the Node system as a way to develop the world - the 2nd pillar being Meaningful Conflict is our catalyst for change.
So if a world has Nodes that are starting to get developed, and citizens start claiming areas and they have their Freeholds out in the realm and there ar Castles that have been taken and dungeons that lay claimed to...all those types of things... PvP in our game has meaning to it based on the systems it's involved with.
So, when we have Castle sieges, when we have Node sieges, when we have Caravans, when we have battlegrounds and arenas, there's a purpose for that performance on the players' end in participating with those events. And it has real world effects.
We're not creating a gankbox. We're not creating a murderbox.
There is a flagging system that is in place that highly dis-incentivizes just outright murder.
We, however, do want to see conflict erupt and we do want to see that conflict have a system to see out what the result will be.
---Steven
(And, yes, I know you were not suggesting that killing for fun inherently equates with a murderbox.
I'm just saying Ashes is not intended to be a hardcore PvP game.)
If you come from something like Eve Online AoC probably won't be all that crazy...but the vast majority of MMO players that give the game a try will very likely consider it hardcore PvP b/c it's not just a background system and is instead intrinsically tied into nearly every aspect of the game.
I had a feeling my reply would get a rise out of you.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Having the focus of the PvP combat be objective-based and having Corruption... as well as the PvE elements... ramps down the hardcore PvP part quite a bit
There is quite a bit of PvP. And quite a bit of PvE. Sure.
And having no PvE servers makes it more PvP than lots of people would like. Yes.
I think it's not going to be as hardcore PvP as EvE, which seems to be what Myrmex is expecting.
You know me well!!!
Indeed. A ball is round.
Honestly I would prefer they just go to this now b/c w/ the desire for 250v250 (or 500v500) I just can't see how the servers won't be a literal dumpster fire if they had to handle Action Combat
Sure having objectives to fight over is fun but you do realize that pvp players will kill each other just because and they don't need any motivation or justification for it. Pvp players will fight just to fight anywhere they can. Someone might just come along while you are questing and kill you for no reason other then it was funny to do so. There is corruption , but there is nothing to stop a pvp guilds declaring wars on what they think are soft guilds of carebear players.
I think there's a portion you're missing out of this- specifically that caravanning goods is going to be much more dangerous than moving goods in EvE online. Given with siege mechanics and node destruction, there's going to be plenty of opportunity and people looking to gank folks moving their goods away from danger. I agree that maybe PvP combat in general might not be as big of a deal given the corruption mechanic, but people forget the large economic incentives some guilds will have by 'killing for fun' - primarily against vulnerable caravans.
Read the comic here!
So while Caravan battles may be more frequent than in EvE, they will be less hardcore.
We shall see.
I also think of full loot as hardcore PvP. Loss of some resources does not feel hardcore, to me.
Also, hardcore PvP, to me, would not include a Corruption mechanic.
Every time people mention Ashes being a PvP game around Steven, he tries to make it a point that Ashes is a PvX game.
Of course he does b/c stating the game is PvP focus will automatically deter a massive number of potential players.
Is the game guaranteed to be a gank fest from the moment you start w/ no hope of ever hitting level cap? Probably not, but the moment someone hears PvP they flashback to some dick shutting down entire zones in WoW for literally no reason than being a troll.
Fact is to the vast majority of people the game is a hardcore PvP one and that won't change unless Intrepid puts in PvE servers where literally everything is opt-in.
The OP is wanting the action combat to be expanded so that to be the best PvP game his hardcore PvP buddies could ever want.
And I'm just putting out the reminder that that's not the goal Steven has stated.
If you still want to hope Ashes is the best hardcore PvP ever made in any case, that's OK by me.
Personally, the reason I want it in AoC is because I find action combat more immersive and modern. I get more pumped up when playing an action combat mmo in PvP and raidboss fighting.
I do find action combat extremelly annoying when I want to progress my character, grind open world xp, or collect crafting materials from mobs.
In L2 with it's tab combat, grouping up with friends and playing PvE for hours was a breeze. Very relaxing.
However, if after A1 is completed and the basics are not looking good, I think AoC should focus on a polished tab target combat, with modern mobility features (gap closers/openers, pushbacks/pulls, invisibility, telekinesis spells etc).
Combat is a part of mmorpgs.
Character progress
Group goals
Wars and domination
Market and items
Visuals and world exploration
Having tab target would not turn me off even tho I prefer action combat.
Not all action combat mmos are good. For me ESO, was visually so ugly due to animation cancelling. Also the skills looked so unimpressive.
Then you have bdo, which had immersive combat, but was a clusterf*** of over the top effects.
Tera online did good action combat. The best I have seen. And AA did a good mix of action/tab, even though I was not too crazy for the magic giant hammers tied to all the "warrior" rotations.
So long as AC move feel good and are properly rewarded the two systems should be able to coexist quite well.
My main worry is that you would see people only using AC moves in PvE because targets tend to be slower and more stationary if tanked well, and people would use TT in PvP more to have higher hit accuracy. Still, the idea that the player makes the choice on what moves they want to use is still more important to me than any predicted meta.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
I wouldn't categorize APOC as FPS style combat though.
Why not? Too fun?
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
I don't know , works just find in Fallout 76 which has been much improved since its horrible start.
Okkaaaaaayyyy.
Why can't we have both?
When David Brevik first designed Diablo it was a turn-based RPG. Then his team convinced him to allow the turns to happen in real time, and they ended up creating one of the most successful RPG genres in gaming, the ARPG.
To me saying things like: "FPS or AC style moves have no place in MMORPGs." Is the type of thinking that holds back innovation. I think we can all agree Ashes is trying to be innovative. So, why try to hold it back?
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
The more FPS and RPG becomes the more difficult it becomes to synergize abilities with your teammates.
Which is a key aspect of RPGs.
With an FPS, you really just need to blow shit up. And, that is where the focus on DPS comes into play - to the detriment of roleplaying.
But, again, I don't categorize APOC combat as FPS moves.
So, that really could just be "semantics".
If the concept is APOC moves but is labeled FPS moves...sure, I'm OK with that.
You say that as if team-based FPS games don't exist and are not a huge success.
Coordinating with your team is key in any group-based FPS.
That is not true and you know it. Strategy is crucial in FPS and AC games. Skill can only get you so far. Quick-thinking and good coordination are essential. Kind of like... MMORPGs.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
The coordination for an FPS is not the same as the coordination for an RPG.
That's like saying because you have great coordination for a relay race, you will have great coordination with a basketball team.