Dygz wrote: » I don't know about overthink. You explained your meaning and then I explained my meaning. RP Bubble option makes no sense to me. And seems problematic to me if we are somehow missing chat bubble channels in the open world. That being said - we will probably mostly be communicating by Discord voice chat anyway. RP should be the norm, so...if we're talking about channels, rather than sessions, I suppose there should just be an OOC channel. And, if there were one, it would be easier to police and report those who don't use the OOC channel...but...There's no reason why OOC should have chat bubbles. So...probably easy enough to just report people using chat bubbles for OOC chat. And then we don't need separate chat bubble channels.
Yuyukoyay wrote: » I remember seeing a video of a pandaren monk who was playing WoW on the trial edition. He logged in just to run around visiting various temples just to bow to every npc he saw and every temple alter he came across. I don't think you gotta give RPers a whole lot for them to be satisfied. xD
Dygz wrote: » RP should be the norm
Tulvir wrote: » I think something that would be great is a built in version of an add on for WoW that many of you may be familiar with if you RPed there. It was called TRP3 (total role play) and it had a general page that listed name, birthplace, eye color, then below that had some characteristics mostly for alignment... *clears throat* and some other stuff for the adult players. Then there was the about page that allowed people to just write about their character. Lastly the "glance" page which had a few tabs that when hovering over a character with the mouse would allow you to read short descriptions that players had written. Something like this in game I think would be amazing for RPing. It wouldn't have to be this in depth, but I think allowing a page or two for players to describe their character and give general information that might not be... easily represented in game just because... we can't have custom models with scars, smells, or looks on our faces. It also most importantly, though this was rather under used imo, allows for RP hooks! Does that guy have a military badge? A crest of another node? Are their clothes in tatters? These can effect how another player might interact with or even if they do interact with other players. Last thing I'd say is some kind of... "note" system for other players. Maybe I get into an interesting discussion with Joe and then a few days go by and I can't quite remember what we discussed, but I'd be really nice if I had a note of "I talked with Joe about a caravan being destroyed and that his daughter had just gotten married". Then I can follow up with that hook and it feels so much more natural.
Vhaeyne wrote: » To me, excessive RP Tools are not good for the game. They promote a play style that goes against the competitive PvX and risk Vs reward foundations of the game. Having some normal things like sitting down in chairs or emotes is useful because more than RP players use these tools. People use these tools for creating screenshots or simple non-rp expressions. The RP in RPG when it comes to video games almost never means you literally role-play. Often times it simply means that the game uses a numbered progression system of some kind. This is why people will argue that Zelda is an RPG when many would agree that it is not. If we were to take Role Playing at face value, then I would argue that no Final Fantasy game ever has been an RPG. You are never expected to role play a character in Final Fantasy. You "can" role play in FFXI or FFXIV, but it is not expected. The focus in Final Fantasy games is almost always to experience a narrative. Which is the same design goal as books and movies.
I feel like Ashes identify itself as an MMORPG to attract the MMORPG audience, not the D&D, Pathfinder, GURPs, or Vampire the masquerade Role Play audience. This is the case for most MMORPGs. The only common tools given to role players is chairs and emotes among MMORPGs. If the focus of MMORPGs was ever to be actual role playing. We would see more robust role playing tools be the standard in MMORPGs.
It is clear to me that Role Playing is not a focus in Ashes. There will never be an RP server. That is by design. Having people play the game just to RP is bad for everyone involved. A pure RP server could not exist in Ashes the game is fueled by competition and the conflict created from it.
If they put these excessive tools into the game it could bring a crowed into the game with the expectation that a safe environment for them to RP exists. Outside of freeholds, stalls, and player housing no "Safe Zones" exist. That means that RPers will experience what they will for sure call "griefing" often. I worry that adding too many RP tools to the game will attract a very vocal crowed of people asking for changes that go against the competitive risk vs reward nature of the game. This is why I am against features like: Tavern games and VoIP.
Maezriel wrote: » I mean, near everyone should know that the longest lasting community of a game are the roleplayers. What do you think is propping up SWTOR and LOTRO? There's also healthy and active communities in WoW, FF14, & WoW (Classic and Retail)
Maezriel wrote: » Alternatively we might not see more robust tools b/c mods always handled it so devs never bothered w/ it.
Maezriel wrote: » Alternatively we might not see more robust tools b/c mods always handled it so devs never bothered w/ it. On top of that look at BDO. Do you think the NPCs have a day/night cycle just for mechanical benefits? It's to add to the immersion of the world...and that's mostly a pure PvP game.
Maezriel wrote: » You're just trying to troll now right? There's no RP server for the same reason there's no PvP or PvE server. Steven has clearly stated he doesn't want segregated servers b/c he has no intention of telling players how to play...it's our sandbox he's building and we dictate what to do in it.
Maezriel wrote: » Seriously, Steven is a massive nerd and an active roleplayer. The game is literally built on the back of a Pathfinder campaign and we've had two 24 hour streams where the devs roleplaying was the main attraction. I find it hard to believe you honestly feel this way about roleplayers or you're actively not paying attention. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel where very soon I'll be re-publishing interviews I did w/ actively recruiting roleplay guilds that are pumped for the PvP. In WoW it was roleplayers that kept the WPvP alive and plenty of roleplayers are excellent PvP players as well.
Vhaeyne wrote: » I don't agree that MMORPGs are a worthwhile canvas for real role playing. I like both genres and I think they are stronger when their unique flavors are not combined in excessive ways.
Noaani wrote: » In the same way a tabletop game simply can't compete with an MMO for raid content in terms of complexity (unless you have several years worth of weekly sessions per encounter), MMO's simply can't compete with tabletop for the actual RP experience they offer. People trying to mix either of these ruin both mediums.
Noaani wrote: » Maezriel wrote: » Alternatively we might not see more robust tools b/c mods always handled it so devs never bothered w/ it. What mods have been created to assist with RP in MMO's?
Maezriel wrote: » Even in the hardcorist of hardcore RP guilds RP isn't the normal chat unless specifically in an area/setting it makes sense.
Vhaeyne wrote: » I don't agree that MMORPGs are a worthwhile canvas for real role playing.
Vhaeyne wrote: » To me, excessive RP Tools are not good for the game. They promote a play style that goes against the competitive PvX and risk Vs reward foundations of the game.
Vhaeyne wrote: » Having some normal things like sitting down in chairs or emotes is useful because more than RP players use these tools. People use these tools for creating screenshots or simple non-rp expressions.
Vhaeyne wrote: » The RP in RPG when it comes to video games almost never means you literally role-play. Often times it simply means that the game uses a numbered progression system of some kind. This is why people will argue that Zelda is an RPG when many would agree that it is not. If we were to take Role Playing at face value, then I would argue that no Final Fantasy game ever has been an RPG. You are never expected to role play a character in Final Fantasy. You "can" role play in FFXI or FFXIV, but it is not expected. The focus in Final Fantasy games is almost always to experience a narrative. Which is the same design goal as books and movies.
Vhaeyne wrote: » I feel like Ashes identify itself as an MMORPG to attract the MMORPG audience, not the D&D, Pathfinder, GURPs, or Vampire the masquerade Role Play audience. This is the case for most MMORPGs. The only common tools given to role players is chairs and emotes among MMORPGs. If the focus of MMORPGs was ever to be actual role playing. We would see more robust role playing tools be the standard in MMORPGs.
Vhaeyne wrote: » It is clear to me that Role Playing is not a focus in Ashes. There will never be an RP server. That is by design. Having people play the game just to RP is bad for everyone involved. A pure RP server could not exist in Ashes the game is fueled by competition and the conflict created from it.
Vhaeyne wrote: » If they put these excessive tools into the game it could bring a crowed into the game with the expectation that a safe environment for them to RP exists. Outside of freeholds, stalls, and player housing no "Safe Zones" exist. That means that RPers will experience what they will for sure call "griefing" often. I worry that adding too many RP tools to the game will attract a very vocal crowed of people asking for changes that go against the competitive risk vs reward nature of the game. This is why I am against features like: Tavern games and VoIP.
Maezriel wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » I don't agree that MMORPGs are a worthwhile canvas for real role playing. This is the statement I want to highlight. There's a distinct difference between you not thinking it's a worthwhile canvas and the broad stroke "Roleplay doesn't happen in MMOs so tools shouldn't be built for it" I know roleplay happens b/c I've seen it and am involved in it. I also know many use MMOs and similar text base roleplay programs simply b/c they can avoid the anxiety of more intimate settings like Roll20 and of course in person. On top of that b/c developers have hyper optimized their maps few areas exists that work as proper settings for roleplayers, cosmetics and customizations have continually become more monetized, and none of them have built even basic tools like a diary or similar items all on top of gamers becoming increasingly more competitive and focused on the end game raids of extremely railroaded games it's no wonder that roleplayers have taken to sheltering in guilds where they're less likely to get outright flamed. For many aspiring Ashes roleplayers the fact that the game is PvX is a huge blessing b/c they can just kill people that are trolling them and they have the ability to build the spaces that other games deny them.
Dygz wrote: » What can that possibly mean?? It's an RPG. How can tools that help support RP go against anything else in the game??
Dygz wrote: » Roleplay at it's core really just means playing the game from the perspective of the character rather than the perspective of the player.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI5yPLhDQYc In this video, 11:25 to 16:25 is all RP. And I basically just took a random 5 minutes. In this video, for the most part, anything that is not Steven talking directly to the non-playing viewers is RP. So...I don't understand how RP tools interfere with any of that.
Dygz wrote: » I think Steven would not agree with you.
Dygz wrote: » Chairs and emotes as the common tools for RP is a limitation of technology. What other tools are you expecting that would support RP? Especially what kinds of RP tools would get in the way of PvX?? And how could they do so? Having specific tools for harvesting, as Ashes does, literally are RP tools. Constructing and defending villages, towns and cities are major RP tools. Siege equipment that we construct and destroy are major RP tools. Having our inventory items appear on our backpacks and mount barding are significant RP features.
Dygz wrote: » What is an excessive RP tool? Tavern games have been in the game design since the Kickstarter, so I don't know how you can be complaining about that as if it's something new. Obviously, Steven is including parlor games because he's planning to support RP. I'm not sure what you mean by VOIP. The Siege video already tells us that we can expect to be using Discord chat during Sieges. If you mean vicinity voice chat acting as chat bubbles, we already have chat bubbles, so I think vicinity voice chat will not be a thing. I also think vicinity voice chat tends to break immersion and RP rather than facilitating it because players often have all kinds of real world background noises spilling through vicinity voice chat. What you seem to be talking about is what I in previous posts stated "RP session" means to me: Where a player takes the role of GM and fabricates their own story, using the game world as a theatrical stage and other players as actors. As if it's a D&D Session taking place in the world of Verra. The GM creates their own scenarios and /emotes flavor text to the participants. I think that's the kind of RP Steven expects to support in taverns. Along with parlor games.
Vhaeyne wrote: » To me, excessive RP Tools are not good for the game. They promote a play style that goes against the competitive PvX and risk Vs reward foundations of the game. Having some normal things like sitting down in chairs or emotes is useful because more than RP players use these tools. People use these tools for creating screenshots or simple non-rp expressions. The RP in RPG when it comes to video games almost never means you literally role-play. Often times it simply means that the game uses a numbered progression system of some kind. This is why people will argue that Zelda is an RPG when many would agree that it is not. If we were to take Role Playing at face value, then I would argue that no Final Fantasy game ever has been an RPG. You are never expected to role play a character in Final Fantasy. You "can" role play in FFXI or FFXIV, but it is not expected. The focus in Final Fantasy games is almost always to experience a narrative. Which is the same design goal as books and movies. I feel like Ashes identify itself as an MMORPG to attract the MMORPG audience, not the D&D, Pathfinder, GURPs, or Vampire the masquerade Role Play audience. This is the case for most MMORPGs. The only common tools given to role players is chairs and emotes among MMORPGs. If the focus of MMORPGs was ever to be actual role playing. We would see more robust role playing tools be the standard in MMORPGs. It is clear to me that Role Playing is not a focus in Ashes. There will never be an RP server. That is by design. Having people play the game just to RP is bad for everyone involved. A pure RP server could not exist in Ashes the game is fueled by competition and the conflict created from it. If they put these excessive tools into the game it could bring a crowed into the game with the expectation that a safe environment for them to RP exists. Outside of freeholds, stalls, and player housing no "Safe Zones" exist. That means that RPers will experience what they will for sure call "griefing" often. I worry that adding too many RP tools to the game will attract a very vocal crowed of people asking for changes that go against the competitive risk vs reward nature of the game. This is why I am against features like: Tavern games and VoIP.
