Feature Request: Chat Opening and Manipulation

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Um....

What?

Ok so based on this response I asked my teammates to proofread this since I'm sick today and therefore less able to order my thoughts correctly.

I don't want to edit the post since I don't like editing Feedback posts.

They suggested skipping over the request list and reading what comes after, for context, then going back to read the requests, and hopefully that will make more sense.

If not I'll try to make another post later when I can articulate better.

Thanks for the feedback @Tyranthraxus

A far easier solution to this would be to have a text based macro system.

Rather than asking Intrepid to code in a list of commands that most players would find confusing just for the sake of those that can't really speak while playing (who are a group that need to be catered for - just not in a way that will confuse others).

With a macro system like this, players can then set up the most common things they want to say during combat and add them to a hotbar. If done correctly, the player can set the macro to say what it is they want to say to their group, raid, guild, in what ever open chat channels are available, to a specific player, or to their current target.

Add to this some basic emotes for things like "advance", "attack my target" or "come over here" etc, and in-combat communication should be taken care of much easier.

This kind of system won't allow for an easy in-depth discussion with someone in combat, but that is not something that needs to be catered for, imo.

I'm not sure what you mean by easier in this case, so, to clarify, I'm just asking for some extensions of what happens already so I can do things one handed a bit faster.

/p is already the command for 'everything I say after this is directed at my party'

I just want /c to duplicate this functionality, and for the ''/" key to open chat, because right now you hit Enter to open chat.

I wasn't asking for a conversion from 'things I say' in one handed shorthand to 'things that appear in my chat'. My group will understand what 'adva' means on their own.

I'd find macros limiting compared to the literally hundreds of distinct meaningful things that I can say with one hand, given the request.

Not that I have any objection to Macros, but I see no connection between the two.

Tyranthraxus

Azherae wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean by easier in this case, so, to clarify, I'm just asking for some extensions of what happens already so I can do things one handed a bit faster.

/p is already the command for 'everything I say after this is directed at my party'

I just want /c to duplicate this functionality, and for the ''/" key to open chat, because right now you hit Enter to open chat.

I wasn't asking for a conversion from 'things I say' in one handed shorthand to 'things that appear in my chat'. My group will understand what 'adva' means on their own.

I'd find macros limiting compared to the literally hundreds of distinct meaningful things that I can say with one hand, given the request.

Not that I have any objection to Macros, but I see no connection between the two.

This explanation makes a lot more sense than your OP, though I've never understood aversions to editing posts.

In short, you're just looking for short-cuts for chat-functions. That seems pretty reasonable and a good idea! Likely, it's something that wouldn't be too hard to implement into the game's key-binds.

UrFavSarah

Use " ` " button which is below esc button instead of "/" to open chat window would be better as it used in many games. Or just it make it the default and anyone can change it to the proper button for them.

Azherae wrote: »

Not that I have any objection to Macros, but I see no connection between the two.

Almost all of the commonly used things you would want to say in combat can be added to the game as emotes (Archeage did this), meaning you can do 99% of what you want with a much simpler to use, develop and understand system. This allows you to say the things you want to say far easier - as you can slot a macro on to a hot bar and assign it a shortcut. This allows you to use your left hand to use that macro/shortcut, or your right hand to click it with your mouse (should there be reason to do so).

From there, anything you specifically find a need to say in combat that isnt already an emote can simply be made in to a macro, and this would also allow you to direct which chat channel you want to say the thing in.

The system you are asking for is basically the same as the system in EQ2, and so I am VERY familiar with it - and with its limitations. The reason I am suggesting a different system is because the system in EQ2 confused a lot of people. I mean, even your explanation confused people - imagine how many would be confused if they tried to work out what was actually going on if they pressed the wrong button in combat.

If you spend some time and think about it, there are likely to only be between 12 and 20 things you would want to be able to say in combat quickly. That is why an emote/macro system would work better.

Having played games with both systems, the remote system does indeed work better.

By all means, come up with a list of things you can see yourself saying in combat regularly and post it.

Vhaeyne

Might as well just get a stenography keyboard and learn all that shorthand!

XD

I didn't say anything about 'regularly'.

I was talking about Siege stuff.

But sure...

Everything here is one handed... or at least 'one handed with the ability to hit the / key from the mouse'

East
West
Gate
Retreat
Attac
Adva
Retr(eat)
Wasted
Carted - (holdover from Monster Hunter, means you returned to base instead of waiting for the raise)
Rez - (the raise)
Dead - (only means you are dead, might not mean you went back to base)
X - (as a form of 'no')
Sage
Aware
Safe
Read
Get Bac - (tanks use this to tell others to fall back)
Fear
Heat - (used when enemies are incoming)
CC
Wa/t
Ha/t
/eft
Rgt
Fwd
Rear
Cetr - (center)
Defe
Dry - (used when out of mana so other in guild can know)
Hate
Grab
Fast
Haste - (holdover from FFXI really)
Gv - (a way that frontlines ask for a specific buff if they know the hotbar of the buffer)
Baet - (bait)
Where/ - Treats the / as a Question Mark
What - same
Test - (admittedly doesn't come up often)
Caref - shortened careful
Rest (and rested)
Great
Hea/
Swr - Summoner
Ftr/Fgtr - Fighter
C/er - Cleric
Frt/ - Frontline
Bard
Extra - lots of uses
Dash
Cede - Calls back a force in a conflict that isn't the same as 'retreat' as a whole, comes up a lot in Mobas
Fresh - Enemy's health is full
After
Here
There
Yes
Ty
Are
Get
Tag
Base

I suppose things like:
Rave
Frag
Seed
Draw
Hard
Cased
Fade

are moreso things my group would get used to and I'd find uses for. Some moreso than others. Some used already but I won't make the argument that anyone else should understand.

I hope you can see how being able to combine some of these quickly would be nice and why I might want to be able to go "/g fresh at west gate" or "/c Brd gv 2" or "/f we at cetr" or without lifting hand off mouse. If not, so be it, my concern is about the playstyle and enjoyment of my own group, so, no matter how much 'easier' it is to click Macros for any given person other than myself, if this is not problematic for others, I still request it.

There's also the wish sometimes to tell only one person in the group a specific instruction so as to avoid confusion as to who exactly you're giving the instruction to, or to give the whole guild an instruction as opposed to your current party.

I'm used to FFXI where I can do things like "/t Friend", "/r" - which instantly talks to the last person to send me a /tell.

Honestly I'd ask for even more than /tt and /tr (assuming that /r shouldn't be used because it seems that R is the secondary weapon and would fall under the 'exclusion', if I were a serious siege leader with some restriction on VOIP. I can see /tsc for 'Tell Siege Captain/Shot Caller' and you set that person beforehand so that the scouts can do this.

I don't know what you play like, but I simply refute your point. There are many more than 20 things I want to be able to say in battle, one handed.

That isnt a list of things you need to say.

You are not going to just say Bard without context, as an example.

You may say "go to the bard", or "I need a bard here" as some examples, but you are not going to just say "bard".

So, come up with a list of things you will actually say, not a list of words that make up what you will say.

I think I should just disengage with you.

"Hea/ Bard 1st".

I am not sure if you are telling me that I should not play the way I do, or that I do not play the way I do, but either way it's not worth my time.

My request stands. You are blocked for the time being.

But since I hate to leave a request unanswered, and of course I hate losing bad faith arguments, here's the stuff I remember saying or considered saying just in siege today:

"at rgt gate", "bad way", "4 at ctr gate", "heat at wall" (I'd use the // here if I could), "halt", "gv 1 here" (a request for Hallowed Ground), "ready", "clr 2 ballista" (this would have been misspelled and missing the i), "rave heat adva", and "xx 2 far"

I'm not saying I was busy healing every single time this came up. I'm saying I could be. The reason I only thought most of it and didn't do it? Because I don't have the muscle memory for hitting Enter to start talking in games like this (like I said, FFXI, you just hit the spacebar there).

Another bit of information for context that not all may have. When you start typing and then click on something else, and/or use an ability, the chat window does not lose what you were typing, it holds it but does not automatically send it through, at the moment. This means I can talk, interrupt my talking to do something else (unfortunately, dodge is not one of those 'something else') then just hit Enter twice to send what I was saying before interruption.

If I got what I was asking for, I wouldn't need to lift hand from mouse, I'd hit the / button and then flick the mouse wheel down, all while still doing whatever else.

I'm a Cleric, these things affect my heal time when everyone's running around and you currently can't seem to tab-target your own group. Even if I could do that more easily, I'd still want this.

Azherae wrote: »

I think I should just disengage with you.

"Hea/ Bard 1st".

I'm going to assume this is a request to heal the Bard first.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Assuming this is correct, the message you are communicating is not "Hea/ Bard 1st",and is definitely not "bard".

It is a request to heal a specific player.

With this, using a macro/remote system, you can have a single key press to issue a request to heal your target, or the character you have moused over, or you could even set it to request heals for who ever in your raid has the lowest percentage HP at the time.

This is why I am asking for a list of things you are actually asking for - there will be surprisingly few when you factor in the variables that can be accounted for.

Azherae wrote: »

This is direct feedback request for the team for those of us who need to use the ingame chat to communicate even in combat, for whatever reason, and don't plan to, or can't conveniently use, discord or VOIP (children to wake, etc).

My suggestions and requests for how the chat function is implemented are specific:

1. Make / open the chat window the same way Enter does. I don't think this is being used for anything else? Players who use multi-button mouse could even map a button to this just so they never have to take their hands off it. The rest of us could probably manage to move hand to hit that really quickly.
1a. Make it so that the '/' also gets sent into the chat window, so you can immediately just start pressing for the target (can live without this if somehow it's hard)
2. Make /v the equivalent of /s and /g the equivalent of /p. This is to help with onehanded rapid communication. Can use /f for family. If people prefer, /c instead of /g so /g can be for guild. Maybe /e for a 'shout' to 'everyone'.
3. Make it so that there's a setting so that /q /w, /a, /d, /s and all /0-9 all just close the chat window without doing anything and instead execute the hotbar or movement associated with the key otherwise, so we can toggle this on and not get 'trapped' in the chatlog unless we actually started to type something (toggle so that people with 'interesting' keybindings don't have issues)
4. Make it so that /tt will 'tell' to your current tab or interaction target player. Fails when your tabtarget is an enemy or you're in action mode, I guess?
5. I didn't actually check if it is in, but /r to reply to the last player to /tell you (I'll check this today)
6. Make it so that scrolling the mouse wheel down while within the chat log is the equivalent of hitting Enter.

Reasoning is as noted. I need to be able to use chat... faster. And can't always be talking out loud while playing. I want to be able to just, with barely any hand movement or time off the 'capacity to react', do things like:

/c fwd - > to tell my team to I'm moving forward
/c adva -> to tell my team to advance
/tt sa -> a form of yes
/f ret(reat) -> self explanatory

The number of reasonable terms that can be communicated with the left hand alone while doing things quickly is high enough, in my mind, to prompt this request, especially if it isn't too overwhelming. If you start adding mild misspellings as acceptable, and minor other substitution words, it starts to become a whole 'language'.

I say all that just to clarify why I consider this important enough to ask for. I can just do so much more with the options above, and massively reduce the amount of thought (and worry) required for communication in group situations where voice chat is unavailable to me. It may seem small to some, but Sieges have already shown me that this game has the potential to be intense enough for group leaders, to actually require this.

Please raise my Skill Ceiling, Intrepid.

Thanks so much for your consideration.

~Rae

Ooh I like these! Really useful when you group with randoms.
Would prefer if it activates on hitting space after the letter so I can still /dance, /sit, /clap

Azherae wrote: »

here's the stuff I remember saying or considered saying just in siege today:

"at rgt gate", "bad way", "4 at ctr gate", "heat at wall" (I'd use the // here if I could), "halt", "gv 1 here" (a request for Hallowed Ground), "ready", "clr 2 ballista" (this would have been misspelled and missing the i), "rave heat adva", and "xx 2 far"

I would rather have the intent behind what you were saying than the shorthand version of what you were saying that your guild may or may not understand to mean the same as you.

For the most part though, these seem to be fairly basic variants of "go this way/here", "don't go this way", clear this objective", "help needed here", and a request for a specific ability.

Again, the only reason I am suggesting an alternative solution is because the proposed one will create confusion. People will come across it while they are trying to do other things, and likely won't know what is happening. There are many things about it that will outright frustrate the average player, and the entire system will make the game seem haphazard - you are trying to type /sit as an example and it goes in to a form of chat (even if you have to press space - people accidently press space all the time and it usually doesn't alter context). Or you could be half way through typing /sit and accidently bump the scroll wheel - this is something else that usually doesn't do anything at all if you are typing - it definitely isn't an alternative form of enter.

Now again, I want to stress that I want people in your situation to be able to communicate as well as is possible - but I also don't want the game to have a chat/command system that comes across as frankly amateur - and the more ways a player has of not achieving what they are trying to do, the more amateur the system will seem.

Instead, if the game had an emote that had a contextual input of a point of interest (and if sieges and such had points of interest for paths, wall sections, objectives, towers and such), then you could do most of what you were doing above by simply mousing over the appropriate point of interest, and activating the emote associated with it.

It should be an emote to say not to go there, to go there, to hold the point or to take the point. In just those 4 emotes, you have most of what you would want to communicate on a regular basis.

And surely the point is about an easy means of clear communication, not about getting it in the exact manner you are used to having.

Noaani wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

here's the stuff I remember saying or considered saying just in siege today:

"at rgt gate", "bad way", "4 at ctr gate", "heat at wall" (I'd use the // here if I could), "halt", "gv 1 here" (a request for Hallowed Ground), "ready", "clr 2 ballista" (this would have been misspelled and missing the i), "rave heat adva", and "xx 2 far"

I would rather have the intent behind what you were saying than the shorthand version of what you were saying that your guild may or may not understand to mean the same as you.

For the most part though, these seem to be fairly basic variants of "go this way/here", "don't go this way", clear this objective", "help needed here", and a request for a specific ability.

Again, the only reason I am suggesting an alternative solution is because the proposed one will create confusion. People will come across it while they are trying to do other things, and likely won't know what is happening. There are many things about it that will outright frustrate the average player, and the entire system will make the game seem haphazard - you are trying to type /sit as an example and it goes in to a form of chat (even if you have to press space - people accidently press space all the time and it usually doesn't alter context). Or you could be half way through typing /sit and accidently bump the scroll wheel - this is something else that usually doesn't do anything at all if you are typing - it definitely isn't an alternative form of enter.

Now again, I want to stress that I want people in your situation to be able to communicate as well as is possible - but I also don't want the game to have a chat/command system that comes across as frankly amateur - and the more ways a player has of not achieving what they are trying to do, the more amateur the system will seem.

Instead, if the game had an emote that had a contextual input of a point of interest (and if sieges and such had points of interest for paths, wall sections, objectives, towers and such), then you could do most of what you were doing above by simply mousing over the appropriate point of interest, and activating the emote associated with it.

It should be an emote to say not to go there, to go there, to hold the point or to take the point. In just those 4 emotes, you have most of what you would want to communicate on a regular basis.

And surely the point is about an easy means of clear communication, not about getting it in the exact manner you are used to having.

I've seen this feature in a few MMO's though, (e.g. in GW2 it's on \ ), I think it was in FFXVI too? In maplestory hitting / would focus the chat window and input the "/" for whatever you wanted to type next.

The main reason I think this is ok is that it's not easy to accidentally press /, and even if you do - just make it obvious that the chat window has become active (which in A1 it's pretty obv, iirc)

Also to make sure people aren't getting the wrong idea - Azherae is not suggesting to replace hitting Enter to interact with the chatbox - we're talking about UI shortcuts.

Tyranthraxus

Oh, just type this stuff out. C'mon.

Somewhat related, I really like League of Legend's /r to reply directly to the last person who contacted you directly without having to type out their name.

Especially useful if you've got something up for auction and IlK0NlK4LlI wants to haggle you.

maouw wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

here's the stuff I remember saying or considered saying just in siege today:

"at rgt gate", "bad way", "4 at ctr gate", "heat at wall" (I'd use the // here if I could), "halt", "gv 1 here" (a request for Hallowed Ground), "ready", "clr 2 ballista" (this would have been misspelled and missing the i), "rave heat adva", and "xx 2 far"

I would rather have the intent behind what you were saying than the shorthand version of what you were saying that your guild may or may not understand to mean the same as you.

For the most part though, these seem to be fairly basic variants of "go this way/here", "don't go this way", clear this objective", "help needed here", and a request for a specific ability.

Again, the only reason I am suggesting an alternative solution is because the proposed one will create confusion. People will come across it while they are trying to do other things, and likely won't know what is happening. There are many things about it that will outright frustrate the average player, and the entire system will make the game seem haphazard - you are trying to type /sit as an example and it goes in to a form of chat (even if you have to press space - people accidently press space all the time and it usually doesn't alter context). Or you could be half way through typing /sit and accidently bump the scroll wheel - this is something else that usually doesn't do anything at all if you are typing - it definitely isn't an alternative form of enter.

Now again, I want to stress that I want people in your situation to be able to communicate as well as is possible - but I also don't want the game to have a chat/command system that comes across as frankly amateur - and the more ways a player has of not achieving what they are trying to do, the more amateur the system will seem.

Instead, if the game had an emote that had a contextual input of a point of interest (and if sieges and such had points of interest for paths, wall sections, objectives, towers and such), then you could do most of what you were doing above by simply mousing over the appropriate point of interest, and activating the emote associated with it.

It should be an emote to say not to go there, to go there, to hold the point or to take the point. In just those 4 emotes, you have most of what you would want to communicate on a regular basis.

And surely the point is about an easy means of clear communication, not about getting it in the exact manner you are used to having.

I've seen this feature in a few MMO's though, (e.g. in GW2 it's on \ ), I think it was in FFXVI too? In maplestory hitting / would focus the chat window and input the "/" for whatever you wanted to type next.

The main reason I think this is ok is that it's not easy to accidentally press /, and even if you do - just make it obvious that the chat window has become active (which in A1 it's pretty obv, iirc)

Also to make sure people aren't getting the wrong idea - Azherae is not suggesting to replace hitting Enter to interact with the chatbox - we're talking about UI shortcuts.

As I said earlier in this thread, what's being asked for is similar to how EQ2 does things.

The issue isnt at all with / taking you straight to typing in the primary chat window - I would consider that to be a standard function of MMO's myself.

The issue is with the other requests, how many of them there are, and how easy it would be for someone that doesnt know all of the inputs to get themself confused.

As I said earlier in the thread as well, I fully agree that people not using voice comms should have easy means of communication made available to them. This is another thing I consider a standard function in MMO's.

I just dont see the way the OP has suggested it as being the best way to achieve that outcome. He is basically asking for a system to conform to the existing shorthand that he already has, rather than asking for a system that is easy to understand.