Bounties to Hunt

With all of the thread activity on bounties and player behavior, what are going to be the benefits of actually PvPing in an open world MMO? What will be an incentive to be a heel/villain in someones narrative and actually PK someone?

It seems that it'll be titled on the end of the bounty side, but what about balance? What about walking in front of a purple fight as a Passive Player and deliberately trying to give someone corruption? How do you balance these scenarios?

It seems Intrepid has to consider that some of us are just old school and it really has nothing to do with being mean or griefing, rather if I'm in my grind spot and someone tries to shove me out the way, I am absolutely going to drop that player and if they bring their friends/guildies, I'll drop them too. It's just old school.

If theres a KOS list to hunt, people are going to hunt it. Does it really have to come down to keeping war dec's on an entire guild for the actions of one or two players?

I hope the corruption system is carefully crafted as to punish griefers however, doesn't completely shut down PvPing in the open world. There's more than one way to grief and two people flagged as purple calling in someone to stand between em to get killed to turn a player red should also be considered.

Some guilds want to protect their business interests, I know that I'll protect my guilds business interests such as farmers, crafters, etc that do not want to engage in open world PvP, even if that means me being an aggressor.

Just thoughts to consider.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Grihm

Azherae wrote: »

I don't care at all. I don't PvP normally, if I did, I'd just accept the corruption.

How it works on the PvE side? The other person had to kill me first. I actually meant that they had to do it in open world since that was what we were discussing, but I don't see much harm in it the other way either, it'd just be complicated.

If a person keeps killing you whenever they see you, taking the Corruption, and then working it off, because they are higher level, or your class isn't built for PvP and can't fight back, you could give someone else one free pass to kill that player for you when they see them, no questions asked, no penalty.

That person literally counts as 'my sworn enemy', RP wise. Or someone who protects me, gets to consider them 'sworn enemy' for doing that to me constantly when I can't fight back.

I see this as entirely a benefit to PvE. Wouldn't you hate having to sit around at a dungeon's entrance because your nemesis who kills you constantly is just sitting there waiting for you to go in and then kill you when you start fighting? You could call someone more powerful to kill them, but that person might get Corruption and it could be a trap.

I was suggesting 'the ability to exact vengeance on a killer even if they were no longer technically Corrupted'.

I see. But you will already be shielded in general as i have understood it. The ganker will be marked on the map for all to see, so you can be sure he/she will not be staying around for long to harass you.

Is that solution not already the key?
If you think that player will return, i would say it´s probably gonna take a while for them to work it off, and also, you could by then have another player with you as protection. That could be a bountyhunter by RP alone.

If you start dealing out passes, that´s a slippery slope into abuse. Unless you develop a specific system to keep track on server logs as evidence for what he or she has done, it´s word against word.

Azherae

Players with a high enough corruption score will be visible on the world and mini maps. These players will have markers posted on the map by an NPC from a Military node of at least stage 4 (Town), and will only be granted to players who have the Bounty hunter title.[26] The accuracy of bounty hunter maps is determined by a player's progression in the bounty hunter system.[27]

A corrupted player can kill you and walk away. Especially if they are not near a military node or Tavern.

They just get to escape.

I am unsure, have you never experienced a 'KoS list'?

Someone declares 'this person has offended or harrassed me (speaking toward their Guildmates), whenever you see this person, kill them immediately.

People get put on KoS lists for any number of human reasons.

The system offered was for 'when they maybe deserved it due to killing you'.

If a PKer decided you were annoying for any reason and just instantly killed you whenever they encountered you in the world and then vanished, they escape, and if you have to log off, and they worked off their Corruption by the next time you can find them, you have to live with it. They have no reason not to just do it again if they feel like they will escape.

Edit: I've just realized that the only reason I'm responding here is because I thought you might have misunderstandings (for example the italicized text). If you didn't, or still think I should 'prove the usefulness', assume I've disengaged because as noted... don't actually care.

Grihm

I see how you mean, but what if i simply get it in my mind that, Oh Azherae annoys me..and now i will put a bounty on that player and get a hunter a kill for free card. How will that not be abused?

No, never been on a KOS list, never sat someone on one either.

The thing is, you are very free to put someone on a KOS list, but you cannot expect the game to cater to it.
The concept of World pvp is to ensure ganking is not a thing by a corruption setting. If you want to KOS someone, you can either do it in the open and take the corruption, or save it for PVP and go all in on that player to make your point.

You say they can just walk away, or work off the corruption...but in what way? If they walk away, how does that stop you from going after, or sending people after? And working off the corruption... how long does it take?

Azherae

Grihm wrote: »

I see how you mean, but what if i simply get it in my mind that, Oh Azherae annoys me..and now i will put a bounty on that player and get a hunter a kill for free card. How will that not be abused?

No, never been on a KOS list, never sat someone on one either.

The thing is, you are very free to put someone on a KOS list, but you cannot expect the game to cater to it.
The concept of World pvp is to ensure ganking is not a thing by a corruption setting. If you want to KOS someone, you can either do it in the open and take the corruption, or save it for PVP and go all in on that player to make your point.

You say they can just walk away, or work off the corruption...but in what way? If they walk away, how does that stop you from going after, or sending people after? And working off the corruption... how long does it take?

How would you get the Memory used to get the Grudge if I never killed you?

If your point is that when you personally PK people, you don't want to be in danger if you work off your Corruption, that's fine, but it doesn't sound like that's what you want.

Anyways, no need to respond to this one, sounds like your stance is clear. "KoS lists should not have a way to work without Corruption being risked". I've got no problems with this, the OP has concerns about it, so you can hash it out with them as you were previously doing.

Solvryn

Grihm wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I actually don't care about this. You said "if you can come up with a system that could allow you to have KOS pvp in the open, shoot. I think that would be a valid suggestion to listen to" so I came up with a system.

If your point is 'justify your wish to me', I don't have a wish on this matter, was following on what you seemed to be saying.

You actually don´t care?
My " point " is you have PVP options in plenty, and you do not need to add another. This is an MMORPG, not a fortnite match with only one purpose. I said if you could state how this would work side by side and not break the PVE side, then sure... i could be behind that. However, if you want it, you need to consider all sides, because we are sharing one game.

Just wondering how you would say this is not getting in the way of pve or roleplay, and why cant you deal with this where PVP is the main focus?

It benefits you because if you are farming and we do business, I would like to be the active aggressor in keeping you safe in say you being a farmer.

-or-

You're apart of a open world Boss fight and another PvE group comes into snipe the kill from you, I can flag and drop as many as possible and for sure earn corruption.

My initial point was that I do not think we're going to see corrupted players as much as Bounty Hunters, but I can think of quiet a few ways a corrupted player is beneficial to PvE.

Grihm

Karatos wrote: »

Grihm wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I actually don't care about this. You said "if you can come up with a system that could allow you to have KOS pvp in the open, shoot. I think that would be a valid suggestion to listen to" so I came up with a system.

If your point is 'justify your wish to me', I don't have a wish on this matter, was following on what you seemed to be saying.

You actually don´t care?
My " point " is you have PVP options in plenty, and you do not need to add another. This is an MMORPG, not a fortnite match with only one purpose. I said if you could state how this would work side by side and not break the PVE side, then sure... i could be behind that. However, if you want it, you need to consider all sides, because we are sharing one game.

Just wondering how you would say this is not getting in the way of pve or roleplay, and why cant you deal with this where PVP is the main focus?

It benefits you because if you are farming and we do business, I would like to be the active aggressor in keeping you safe in say you being a farmer.

-or-

You're apart of a open world Boss fight and another PvE group comes into snipe the kill from you, I can flag and drop as many as possible and for sure earn corruption.

My initial point was that I do not think we're going to see corrupted players as much as Bounty Hunters, but I can think of quiet a few ways a corrupted player is beneficial to PvE.

But me saying " shoot that guy dead " is not really legit. It´s me being salty and paying you the high tier character to kill someone i don´t like.

What you suggest may already be the way it is, due to you are in my group, i get ganked and you in my group kill my aggressor. If the players can put out an actual bounty, how is that not a big risk of being abused?

We will for sure see a lot of corrupted player the day we go live, due to " reasons " and people just wanting to be " that one ". I do expect some will be active in going corrupted as much as they can, but no..i agree...not as many as actual bounty hunters. However... a bounty must be made from an ingame system, otherwise there will be no end to it.

Solvryn

Grihm wrote: »

Karatos wrote: »

Grihm wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I actually don't care about this. You said "if you can come up with a system that could allow you to have KOS pvp in the open, shoot. I think that would be a valid suggestion to listen to" so I came up with a system.

If your point is 'justify your wish to me', I don't have a wish on this matter, was following on what you seemed to be saying.

You actually don´t care?
My " point " is you have PVP options in plenty, and you do not need to add another. This is an MMORPG, not a fortnite match with only one purpose. I said if you could state how this would work side by side and not break the PVE side, then sure... i could be behind that. However, if you want it, you need to consider all sides, because we are sharing one game.

Just wondering how you would say this is not getting in the way of pve or roleplay, and why cant you deal with this where PVP is the main focus?

It benefits you because if you are farming and we do business, I would like to be the active aggressor in keeping you safe in say you being a farmer.

-or-

You're apart of a open world Boss fight and another PvE group comes into snipe the kill from you, I can flag and drop as many as possible and for sure earn corruption.

My initial point was that I do not think we're going to see corrupted players as much as Bounty Hunters, but I can think of quiet a few ways a corrupted player is beneficial to PvE.

But me saying " shoot that guy dead " is not really legit. It´s me being salty and paying you the high tier character to kill someone i don´t like.

What you suggest may already be the way it is, due to you are in my group, i get ganked and you in my group kill my aggressor. If the players can put out an actual bounty, how is that not a big risk of being abused?

We will for sure see a lot of corrupted player the day we go live, due to " reasons " and people just wanting to be " that one ". I do expect some will be active in going corrupted as much as they can, but no..i agree...not as many as actual bounty hunters. However... a bounty must be made from an ingame system, otherwise there will be no end to it.

Well bounties are going to be issued from the game at military nodes after a player accumulates so much corruption.

The KOS list is a personal list which gets the risk of corruption and that was more or less my point, I don't rPK (random Player Kill) all of my PKing is done with a purpose.

I wont hesitate to attack someone prematurely if I know they're looking to kill farmers at my node or anybody whos farming that I do business with that's a nPK/nPvPr, I also wont hesitate go retrieving some contents of anyone whos been looted that asks me too. Provided they're a friend/business partner.

and thats ultimately where I can see the system running into a problem, not everyone with corruption is doing mean stuff, they're simply protecting their interests.

Noaani

Karatos wrote: »

and thats ultimately where I can see the system running into a problem, not everyone with corruption is doing mean stuff, they're simply protecting their interests.

If you are wanting to attack and kill a player in response to them attacking and killing harvesters or whoever, get those harvesters to ensure the player in question has a lot of corruption, then kill them in a way that actually hurts them.

Being killed without corruption isn't a big deal. Being killed with a lot of corruption is. Use the fact that this person is attacking people that don't want to fight against them.

Basically, be smart rather than just running in and taking action without thought.

Solvryn

Noaani wrote: »

Karatos wrote: »

and thats ultimately where I can see the system running into a problem, not everyone with corruption is doing mean stuff, they're simply protecting their interests.

If you are wanting to attack and kill a player in response to them attacking and killing harvesters or whoever, get those harvesters to ensure the player in question has a lot of corruption, then kill them in a way that actually hurts them.

Being killed without corruption isn't a big deal. Being killed with a lot of corruption is. Use the fact that this person is attacking people that don't want to fight against them.

Basically, be smart rather than just running in and taking action without thought.

I wouldn't have a problem with that except for the fact that the amount of times I'm going to kill a person is in proportion to amount of material and time lost. Killing a high corruption player doesn't equate into getting back all of that material because they can go mule everything they just gained and run around in crappy gear.

Noaani

Karatos wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Karatos wrote: »

and thats ultimately where I can see the system running into a problem, not everyone with corruption is doing mean stuff, they're simply protecting their interests.

If you are wanting to attack and kill a player in response to them attacking and killing harvesters or whoever, get those harvesters to ensure the player in question has a lot of corruption, then kill them in a way that actually hurts them.

Being killed without corruption isn't a big deal. Being killed with a lot of corruption is. Use the fact that this person is attacking people that don't want to fight against them.

Basically, be smart rather than just running in and taking action without thought.

I wouldn't have a problem with that except for the fact that the amount of times I'm going to kill a person is in proportion to amount of material and time lost. Killing a high corruption player doesn't equate into getting back all of that material because they can go mule everything they just gained and run around in crappy gear.

I'd they are running around in crappy gear, they aren't doing anyone any harm.

This is what I was saying earlier in the thread about the old school way of doing things not needing to be maintained.

If someone is killing your friends, your goal is to hurt them. The old school way of doing this is to attack them, and that's about it.

In Ashes, if you force this player to have to use shit gear for fear of losing quality item, you are already hurting him.

However, you are still not factoring in the major component of the penalty for being killed while corrupt - experience debt earned at 4 times the standard rate..

Now let's assume your friends are smart, and made sure this player had a LOT of corruption before calling you in (slipping in a few low level characters for him to kill, perhaps). Then you come along and get that first kill on him.

All of a sudden, this player is in shit gear, with some slots empty, has experience debt along with the associated penalties, but also has corruption remaining, including further PvP penalties associated with that, and the further risk of losing more gear.

Honestly, people that stick to the old school mentality are the people that are going to get harassed in Ashes. If I know you will attack me and gain corruption every time I attack your friends, all that does is give me ideas of ways to use that to my advantage.

Solvryn

Noaani wrote: »

Karatos wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Karatos wrote: »

and thats ultimately where I can see the system running into a problem, not everyone with corruption is doing mean stuff, they're simply protecting their interests.

If you are wanting to attack and kill a player in response to them attacking and killing harvesters or whoever, get those harvesters to ensure the player in question has a lot of corruption, then kill them in a way that actually hurts them.

Being killed without corruption isn't a big deal. Being killed with a lot of corruption is. Use the fact that this person is attacking people that don't want to fight against them.

Basically, be smart rather than just running in and taking action without thought.

I wouldn't have a problem with that except for the fact that the amount of times I'm going to kill a person is in proportion to amount of material and time lost. Killing a high corruption player doesn't equate into getting back all of that material because they can go mule everything they just gained and run around in crappy gear.

I'd they are running around in crappy gear, they aren't doing anyone any harm.

This is what I was saying earlier in the thread about the old school way of doing things not needing to be maintained.

If someone is killing your friends, your goal is to hurt them. The old school way of doing this is to attack them, and that's about it.

In Ashes, if you force this player to have to use shit gear for fear of losing quality item, you are already hurting him.

However, you are still not factoring in the major component of the penalty for being killed while corrupt - experience debt earned at 4 times the standard rate..

Now let's assume your friends are smart, and made sure this player had a LOT of corruption before calling you in (slipping in a few low level characters for him to kill, perhaps). Then you come along and get that first kill on him.

All of a sudden, this player is in shit gear, with some slots empty, has experience debt along with the associated penalties, but also has corruption remaining, including further PvP penalties associated with that, and the further risk of losing more gear.

Honestly, people that stick to the old school mentality are the people that are going to get harassed in Ashes. If I know you will attack me and gain corruption every time I attack your friends, all that does is give me ideas of ways to use that to my advantage.

That's really the point of this thread, making sure that the Bounty Hunter/ Corruption system is crafted properly so it doesn't allow people to exploit it beyond its original intended purpose.

Anyone can do that on an alt and not pay any penalty on a main. It's better to get it hashed out now rather than have it a problem later on down the line.

But as for your plan, eventually it would lead to people figuring out who you are and just declaring war on whatever tag you wear and taking everything from you in different ways and alienating you purposely from the rest of the playerbase.

There's a lot more nuance and politics to the old school than rush in and murder someone. But I'm not interested in having friends lose their stuff when I can go get it back.

Noaani

Karatos wrote: »

That's really the point of this thread, making sure that the Bounty Hunter/ Corruption system is crafted properly so it doesn't allow people to exploit it beyond its original intended purpose.

It doesn't.

People just need to approach situations differently.

Which again, is what I have been saying all along.

If someone attacks your friends and they fight back, meaning their attacker gains no corruption, then that fighting back that they did makes your job of getting back at that player much harder. If you then go and attack that player and that player is smart enough to not fight back, then you are the one that gains corruption.

However, this is a result of that person being smarter and more familiar with the games systems than either you or your friends - if you guys had the same familiarity of the systems and the same willingness to use those systems, then that attacker would be the one with the corruption, not you.

Solvryn

Noaani wrote: »

Karatos wrote: »

That's really the point of this thread, making sure that the Bounty Hunter/ Corruption system is crafted properly so it doesn't allow people to exploit it beyond its original intended purpose.

It doesn't.

People just need to approach situations differently.

Which again, is what I have been saying all along.

If someone attacks your friends and they fight back, meaning their attacker gains no corruption, then that fighting back that they did makes your job of getting back at that player much harder. If you then go and attack that player and that player is smart enough to not fight back, then you are the one that gains corruption.

However, this is a result of that person being smarter and more familiar with the games systems than either you or your friends - if you guys had the same familiarity of the systems and the same willingness to use those systems, then that attacker would be the one with the corruption, not you.

I don't feel like you're actually considering the point I made, which is the loss of time and resources. It doesn't matter if the players fight back the player attacking them, if they die and lose time and resources; its provocation for me to attack that player at anytime to retrieve lost resources.

Should it warrant me getting corruption or another player corruption? I do not think it should. We're acting on the provocation of another player. The player gaming the system because the system was built poorly isn't witty, its to be expected.

Again, the system needs to be crafted carefully for dissuade griefers, otherwise those players can game the system as you suggest.

Noaani

Karatos wrote: »

Again, the system needs to be crafted carefully for dissuade griefers, otherwise those players can game the system as you suggest.

You are missing my point.

I understand that you want to dissuade people from attacking your friends.

Thing is, that is not the job of the games systems - that is YOUR job.

You do that via punishing them when they do, so that they will not do it again. I have illustrated above how the games systems will allow you to do that.

Child Item