controller input

i feel like with technology today there should be an option to use controllers main reason i dont play games like this is because we cant. this game looks amazing and im sure ill get it eather way but still what would be an easy $500 purchess from me is now only gonna be the little $75 pack simply becase no controller your basically losing money if games like WOW and FFXIV can u can.

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Dreoh

George Black wrote: »

Eso has 6 active abilities at any given time. Controller designed

Again, that's just ESO and they decided to go down that route.

Just because ESO opted to go for a simple system doesn't mean a complex system (like FF14) isn't viable. It's a bit disingenuous of you to latch onto that single point as conclusive proof.

Aerlana wrote: »

For AoC, the best thing to do : build the game around keyboard and mouse like they do now. At first we need to have a game, before a game with 23978 way to play it.
Then, if time, try to have a UI for controller. Doing this way, adding controller won't impact keyboard and mouse. and i really think how the game is build, it can fit well a controller support.

This I completely agree with and is in part what I've been saying. Hell, even WoW just recently added controller support, and from what I've heard it works just fine.

Noaani

Dreoh wrote: »

But you haven't answered how it takes away functionality from non-controller content.

It is nothing to do with combat, it is all in regards to movement of the character and camera.

The feeling of it just feels like a console game.

If you haven been playing a game like this for a while, you aren't going to notice it.

George_Black

I am not disingenuous at all.
The studios that want to cash in from all platforms are.

I point out that ff14 is so slow that its combat can easily be mapped for a controllers.
Eso has only 6 active abilities. It can be easily be mapped for controllers.

An mmorpg is not meant to be played on a console or mobile phone.
The hotbars must be filled with actions, and they should all have available keys to be used QUICKLY.
Eso doesnt allow for more actions in the hotbar (that is why for PvP it's full of selfbuffs, only one CC, spammable, execution).
Ff14 is slow. Slow pace allows for key combinations as an alternative to keys, in order to access the actions the games hotbar allows.

Fact remains that no matter how much you like to argue for the sake of argueing, I am listing here why controller based mmos have limitations on its combat design, and that the only reason studios do that is to cash in.
You can choose to pretend you cant read. Others can.

And finally, Steven has said that he wont compromise the product. AoC isnt for everyone. It is for those that want an mmo with depth.
Controllers might be an afterthought. Cyas.

Dreoh

Noaani wrote: »

Dreoh wrote: »

But you haven't answered how it takes away functionality from non-controller content.

It is nothing to do with combat, it is all in regards to movement of the character and camera.

The feeling of it just feels like a console game.

If you haven been playing a game like this for a while, you aren't going to notice it.

Ok I can see your perspective here, though I will say it's the kind of issue any game with crossplay deals with. FPS's are notorious for difference in skill between keyboard vs controller due to camera movement.
FF14 does also have an acceleration effect to it's movement too, so I'll also grant you that.

George Black wrote: »

I am not disingenuous at all.
The studios that want to cash in from all platforms are.

I point out that ff14 is so slow that its combat can easily be mapped for a controllers.
Eso has only 6 active abilities. It can be easily be mapped for controllers.

An mmorpg is not meant to be played on a console or mobile phone.
The hotbars must be filled with actions, and they should all have available keys to be used QUICKLY.
Eso doesnt allow for more actions in the hotbar (that is why for PvP it's full of selfbuffs, only one CC, spammable, execution).
Ff14 is slow. Slow pace allows for key combinations as an alternative to keys, in order to access the actions the games hotbar allows.

Fact remains that no matter how much you like to argue for the sake of argueing, I am listing here why controller based mmos have limitations on its combat design, and that the only reason studios do that is to cash in.
You can choose to pretend you cant read. Others can.

And finally, Steven has said that he wont compromise the product. AoC isnt for everyone. It is for those that want an mmo with depth.
Controllers might be an afterthought. Cyas.

You don't know that ff14 is slow because of controllers. You're making an assumption.
Eso has 6 abilities yes, but so what? GW2 Wildstar and current AoC had/have 10 abilities at a time on the hotbar, and they don't support controller input. Sometimes the number of abilities on a bar is about balancing toolkits and not about ease of use.
Granted ESO COULD have limited their bar to 6 because of controller support, but it could also very easily be because they just wanted to have that level of skillset balance.

You're using this "6 slot" ESO hotbar as some kind of ultimate perfect argument against controller input, but you're only making big assumptions about it.

You can say "I just like to argue" because I'm making valid points against your stance that you find hard to refute and are ignoring, but that doesn't mean my counterpoints aren't valid.

And again, controller input implementation does not mean compromising a product. Anything implemented badly can compromise a product. You're not making a sound argument here. It's all assumptions.

Noaani

Dreoh wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Dreoh wrote: »

But you haven't answered how it takes away functionality from non-controller content.

It is nothing to do with combat, it is all in regards to movement of the character and camera.

The feeling of it just feels like a console game.

If you haven been playing a game like this for a while, you aren't going to notice it.

Ok I can see your perspective here, though I will say it's the kind of issue any game with crossplay deals with. FPS's are notorious for difference in skill between keyboard vs controller due to camera movement.

Absolutely.

And that is why it is my opinion that MMO's (other genres are different in this regard, imo) should stick to one or the other.

Either be a console/controller game, or dont.

JustVine

George Black wrote: »

I point out that ff14 is so slow that its combat can easily be mapped for a controllers.
Eso has only 6 active abilities. It can be easily be mapped for controllers.

An mmorpg is not meant to be played on a console or mobile phone.
The hotbars must be filled with actions, and they should all have available keys to be used QUICKLY.
Eso doesnt allow for more actions in the hotbar (that is why for PvP it's full of selfbuffs, only one CC, spammable, execution).
Ff14 is slow. Slow pace allows for key combinations as an alternative to keys, in order to access the actions the games hotbar

Button combinations aren't that slow. There is in put lag. If Ashes shifts to a twitch based full action mmo that is so frame dependent you need to worry about small delays like that then we should be having that conversation in a different thread cuz that's not what the plan currently is as I understand it.

Just because /you/ can't play a fast tabtarget game on controller doesn't mean it isn't possible for everyone.

Noaani wrote: »

Dreoh wrote: »

But you haven't answered how it takes away functionality from non-controller content.

It is nothing to do with combat, it is all in regards to movement of the character and camera.

The feeling of it just feels like a console game.

If you haven been playing a game like this for a while, you aren't going to notice it.

I have played games like this for a while. I know what you are talking about, but ashes current camera is terrible and combat schema not well suited to long hours of play for me. Even if they fix the camera, controller is more comfortable for longer play.

The camera feeling you want ashes to 'not have' is something you can get used to and even if you can't, is it a dealbreaker? My hands on the other hand won't adapt to four to eight hours of holding down some button for an auto attack on keyboard.

If yours can take it I am happy for you but I doubt
I'm the only one uninterested in punishing my body to 'proove' I'm a 'hard core gamer'.

Ravel

JustVine wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

The camera feeling you want ashes to 'not have' is something you can get used to and even if you can't, is it a dealbreaker? My hands on the other hand won't adapt to four to eight hours of holding down some button for an auto attack on keyboard.

If yours can take it I am happy for you but I doubt
I'm the only one uninterested in punishing my body to 'proove' I'm a 'hard core gamer'.

Ergonomics matter. That is why changing key-binding will help you to adapt to your style of playing when playing with keyboard, and mouse, and with a controller too.

BTW, playing games for 8 hours a day is not healthy, and in itself is punishing your body. Take care.

George_Black

That quote isnt mine. Dont know why you put my name in there.

JustVine

Everything I said was with keybindings in mind. Ashes core combat is definitely part of the problem relative to comfort and I am NOT asking them to change that.

Keyboards require you to spread out your fingers and hold them in positions that can lead to carpal tunnel. It doesn't matter what your layout is if you have a hot bar with ten abilities, fast paced combat, and require holding or pressing a button for auto attack. Your hands are going to suffer in a raid or long play session if you are more prone to it even if you take breaks. A controller solves this problem. This doesn't even touch on their camera and movement system intended.

Im glad key bindings are ergonomic for you. They aren't for everyone given AoC's core combat. Let me map to a controller.

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

I have played games like this for a while. I know what you are talking about, but ashes current camera is terrible and combat schema not well suited to long hours of play for me. Even if they fix the camera, controller is more comfortable for longer play.

Having experienced a number of games at a similar stage in development to where Ashes is now, the current camera is fine.

If it released as it is now, we would need to all sit down and have a discussion - but for now it's fine.

balzepho

How can controller support in a game make it bad? Especially since AoC doesnt have that much skills to begin with..FF14 and a few did, and it works fine for both mkb/controller users...whoever says it doesnt work because its integrated into the game doesnt know a thing bout how coding works lol

kutvelo

There is older topic of this..

I play WOLRD OF WARCAFT ALL DAY WITH HUNTER 40 BIND ON CONTROLLER, WHY NOT THIS?

SHIFT = LB
CONTROL = RB
ALT = LT

Avaible buttons to bind X4
RT
LSB
RSB
GPAD 1
GPAD 2
GPAD 3
GPAD 4
Y
X
A
B
Start
Back

THAT IS 52 BUTTONS, NOT ENOUGH WTF?!?
Then on top of that, you can add LONG PRESS for actions such as interact, etc.

I can't play on m+kb, I have ruined my hands due work. I can only use controller and I would love to play this game.

IT ABSOLUTELY BLOWS MY MIND WHY ASHES DON'T WANT MY MONEY?!?

I'm not good enough in PVP? Well I am in WOW.. I got "OK" arena rating and in the PVP there are always kids, beginners, boomers, etc. who are not good. Varying skill level in PVP is a GOOD thing.

So you can't play the game because you are not good enough?

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