Player made relics

So, I was thinking about something that could be fun. Have weapons that achieved firsts be given a title.

NO stat increase! But the weapon that first killed 100 players will have a name. The weapon that killed a certain boss. Maybe the first item of its kind crafted have a description that mention that.

This items will no be more powerful than normal, but they will become trade commodities for collectors. Its the same as IRL. A sword that was used to do something epic is way more valuable than a identical sword that was just crafted or that never saw combat. Hell, you could even have display cases in players homes, I can totally see a max level player having a lvl 5 sword on display because it was the first sword to kill 50 corrupted players.

This will make player items more valuable and unique. Only one sword was first the first.

Also, I would like to see on all items "crafted by X, 1 month ago" or something like that. Imagine a player 3 years after launch getting an item that was crafted in the first week. Maybe even have a history of that item "used by X,Y,Z etc", making them realize that the item has a history and was used in the game way before they even heard of it.

Stuff like this would make the world more immersive, give it history though its common items

I am sure that some players will no care about that stuff. "What does it matter if a sword is 2 years old and was the first that killed a gold dragon?". To those players I say, you are not collectors. And thats fine. But a lot of people i think would be willing to pay more for items that have a history than those that don't.

Opinions?

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Schmuky

Noaani wrote: »

I'm just trying to work out how much database space this would require be set aside for every item in the game...

I mean, I like the idea, I just don't see it as being technically worth it.

I don't have an answer for this, not a game dev, so i have no idea how much data it would be. However, considering everything else in the game, this seems like small potatoes to me? Its just text on the item, so, i can't imagine it to be that taxing

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I'm just trying to work out how much database space this would require be set aside for every item in the game...

I mean, I like the idea, I just don't see it as being technically worth it.

If FFXI a 20 year old game can do it....

So, FFXI weapons keep track of things like how many players they have been used to kill, which raid level mobs they have been used to kill, and every player that has used them, as well as potentially hundreds of other factors that could deem a weapon unique?

By all means, give me more info on that.

Chrismaral

I quiet like the whole idea, and regarding newer players joining later, they can always catch up to the next patch and be driven by seeing such items of the past to achieve newer by themselves. with new content ther comes new world firsts, same with seasons.

and regarding the database issue, I‘d suggest to stay with only world first achievements marking the item and seasonal top scores being able to go to a scribe to engrave it on an item… like „[Username]‘s Bloodspiller [Date/Season#]“

And giving crafted Items history, is just an addition to the Item Info. Giving it depth and awarenes of how long the game is going. Or even make it a nice effect seeing that you got an early item crafted by the now world best master. Regarding the database issu we could limit it to top masters, so when the tops cycles we get kind of history kept wothout oversaturating or taking meaning.

and due to it not changing the stats, it would only add an extra layer like titles and add an additional system for collection like mounts.

Azherae

JustVine wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I'm just trying to work out how much database space this would require be set aside for every item in the game...

I mean, I like the idea, I just don't see it as being technically worth it.

If FFXI a 20 year old game can do it....

You're thinking of Magian Trials backward here.

FFXI has entire systems built around 'this weapon in particular was in your hand when you killed this many of this enemy type'. They use it for quests to enhance the weapons in question. There are... probably about 1000 of these 'Trials', but they each only apply to a given weapon, so it's less. Data costs rise exponentially the other way.

That said, this is just 'titles', but applied to gear or weapons. So, I'm in support of this. Titles on players are actually less interesting because players just have one title displayed, even if they change it.

Title Tracer bitmasks on the player don't even get into the megabytes for most games, but memory is memory, so there's that.

Arguing against this as a whole is functionally arguing against Titles though. The same system as in most games 'this item loses all previous progress when sold through an Auction or Stall' would reduce the bloat over time if you wanted to keep the 'Hey track the progress of each weapon I use, in terms of how many Servants of the Ancients it has killed'. For Ashes, you could add 'if it was in storage when the Node or Freehold was destroyed'.

In the end, if it's still concerning, @Lejee has the right of it, World Firsts only, or only a select set of tracers that something was going to track anyway. The bigger question would be if everyone in the raid/group would get some item 'engraved'.

Camthetrashman

This is an awesome idea, maybe even different names based on the weapon type. For example, the first sword to kill 100 players is called "The Bloody" but the first Warhammer to kill 100 players is called "The Skullcrusher", first wand "The Soulstealer", etc. The only problem I can see with this idea is running out of cool names lol

Chrismaral

@Azherae
If it‘s a group content we could argue about „last player hit gets it“ or each member of the „party last hit“ (i guess a system similar to the looting system in action would be the easiest way)

Schmuky

Lejee wrote: »

@Azherae
If it‘s a group content we could argue about „last player hit gets it“ or each member of the „party last hit“ (i guess a system similar to the looting system in action would be the easiest way)

Well, they are building system regarding last kill and how much damage you need to do to count as your kill, so just use that system, no need to add a new one

Camthetrashman wrote: »

This is an awesome idea, maybe even different names based on the weapon type. For example, the first sword to kill 100 players is called "The Bloody" but the first Warhammer to kill 100 players is called "The Skullcrusher", first wand "The Soulstealer", etc. The only problem I can see with this idea is running out of cool names lol

that is a fantastic problem to have. If that's your problem, you ain't got a problem

Azherae wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I'm just trying to work out how much database space this would require be set aside for every item in the game...

I mean, I like the idea, I just don't see it as being technically worth it.

If FFXI a 20 year old game can do it....

You're thinking of Magian Trials backward here.

FFXI has entire systems built around 'this weapon in particular was in your hand when you killed this many of this enemy type'. They use it for quests to enhance the weapons in question. There are... probably about 1000 of these 'Trials', but they each only apply to a given weapon, so it's less. Data costs rise exponentially the other way.

That said, this is just 'titles', but applied to gear or weapons. So, I'm in support of this. Titles on players are actually less interesting because players just have one title displayed, even if they change it.

Title Tracer bitmasks on the player don't even get into the megabytes for most games, but memory is memory, so there's that.

Arguing against this as a whole is functionally arguing against Titles though. The same system as in most games 'this item loses all previous progress when sold through an Auction or Stall' would reduce the bloat over time if you wanted to keep the 'Hey track the progress of each weapon I use, in terms of how many Servants of the Ancients it has killed'. For Ashes, you could add 'if it was in storage when the Node or Freehold was destroyed'.

In the end, if it's still concerning, @Lejee has the right of it, World Firsts only, or only a select set of tracers that something was going to track anyway. The bigger question would be if everyone in the raid/group would get some item 'engraved'.

World First i think we can all agree that would be fantastic. Now keeping track about of every weapon seems a lot of data, but tbh, I expect them to do already, outside of this discussion. Keeping track of which weapon is the most dominant and which one is the least used helps a lot in balancing. If you see a weapon that has 30% more kills that any other weapon in the game, well, that weapon needs a nerf. I don't know if they track stuff like this, but in my mind needed.

True, having a counter for each individual weapon is an extra layer, but not by much. The data from the weapon is already going to the server for the big, all weapons of this type together, so just show the number in a weapon's stat block before.

Nut this argument is kinda meaning less, its not up to us to say whether they can or can't do it. The thread is about "would you as players like something like this?" because if it can't be done, they will say it, and that's it. Debating tech stuff serves nothing.

From a players point of view, I don't see any way in which the system as described before harm or even inconvenience the game. Even if a player doesn't care about it at all, if they get their hands on a titled weapon or a relic or something, they will sell it for loads of gold. They are happy, the one that buys it is happy, it encourages social elements (finding collectors), competitiveness (getting a special weapon) and will add to the server history, something that will be essential in server identity.

Noaani

Schmuky wrote: »

From a players point of view, I don't see any way in which the system as described before harm or even inconvenience the game. Even if a player doesn't care about it at all, if they get their hands on a titled weapon or a relic or something, they will sell it for loads of gold. They are happy, the one that buys it is happy, it encourages social elements (finding collectors), competitiveness (getting a special weapon) and will add to the server history, something that will be essential in server identity.

In terms of player perception, I agree there is no negatives to it.

The only negative I see is the potential server overhead.

While not a perfect analogy, picture it like this.

Each weapon needs to be given a row on a spreadsheet, and each effect you want to track needs to be given a column. Then, you enter nothing in the appropriate field if a weapon doesnt have the thing, or enter something in thei field if it does have a thing.

For players, there is one entry in this spreadsheet per character. Anything that needs to be tracked on à character can be entered here - from titles to the amount of coin the my have to the state of each quest they are working on. Literally all of it is just entries here, that the game then reads and translates in to what we see and understand as we play.

Now, if you start tracking things on weapons, you suddenly need a second spreadsheet, with a row for each weapon in the game, and a column for each thing you want to track per weapon.

Since most players will have multiple weapons per character, this already means this spreadsheet has many times more rows in it than the character spreadsheet.

Again, this isnt a perfect analogy as Intrepid wo t be using spreadsheets for this, but rather a database. However, it is easier to describe using something that we all have experience with.

I'm sure with this, you can see why I can see how it is possible that the overhead on server resources may not be worth it. That is not to say it couldn't be done, but that there may be better uses for that compute power.

It may even turn out that there is a better way to do it than having a dedicated database, and it may even be that the game will already need a database for weapons like this (to account for player input on stats when crafting). These are all things I don't know, nor does anyone other than people working at Intrepid.

All I am saying is I can see how it may not be viable. However, I'd like to reiterate my point from earlier that I do like the idea, and think it would be a good addition to any MMO - if the developers consider it worth it.

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