Conrad wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Conrad wrote: » Yes it makes a difference and it does matter because you're changing the lore established by someone else. If you break the lore it's far less immersive because its less and less the world the person made. At that point it's just a non canon fanfic. I can agree that it makes a difference in the case of established lore. Can you agree that since Ashes is still an early collaborative work that the lore is not yet established? I would be if Steven wasn't hell bent on giving tank class a stupid name such as tank. It makes it hella sound like lore is already established
Vhaeyne wrote: » Conrad wrote: » Yes it makes a difference and it does matter because you're changing the lore established by someone else. If you break the lore it's far less immersive because its less and less the world the person made. At that point it's just a non canon fanfic. I can agree that it makes a difference in the case of established lore. Can you agree that since Ashes is still an early collaborative work that the lore is not yet established?
Conrad wrote: » Yes it makes a difference and it does matter because you're changing the lore established by someone else. If you break the lore it's far less immersive because its less and less the world the person made. At that point it's just a non canon fanfic.
Conrad wrote: » George Black wrote: » Dygz dont talk about my country unless you know what you are talking about. You are confusing ancient Greek education with being Greek. History is based on writtings, cross examination of events. Facts. Not agendas and political ideology. Just because global cities want to make everybody an assimilated 'good citizen' that doesnt mean that the rest of the world accepts this forceful elimitation of unique identity. Albanians in Greece (or Bulgarians or Russians or Pakistanis or English or French or German) are proud to be who they are. I am happy to be Greek and even though I live in Australia I will never be Australian and I dont want to, just like if I was living in China I'd never be Chinese, nor me nor my kids. My last name is Greek. It doesnt become Chinese all of a sudden. Nor a Bulgarian name becomes Greek all of a sudden. Learn to respect people identities instead of trying to make everything the same for your convenience. Dont go around and say crap like "... since the 1800..." about people that have unique language, culture and mythology, preserved to this day since antiquity. The first world empire that respected other civilizations instead of forcing them to give up their religions or way of life, and trully celebrated and respected foreign peoples uniqueness. Dont talk about my country with the same breath as you push political agendas aimed at imprisoning rational thinking that cant be controlled or forced to get in line with the herd. Ngl, kinda jealous I'm not Greek myself. Cool mythology, cool names and created the Corinthian helm. Meanwhile here I am, a Polish guy and all I can be proud of is the Witcher and Husaria 🤣
George Black wrote: » Dygz dont talk about my country unless you know what you are talking about. You are confusing ancient Greek education with being Greek. History is based on writtings, cross examination of events. Facts. Not agendas and political ideology. Just because global cities want to make everybody an assimilated 'good citizen' that doesnt mean that the rest of the world accepts this forceful elimitation of unique identity. Albanians in Greece (or Bulgarians or Russians or Pakistanis or English or French or German) are proud to be who they are. I am happy to be Greek and even though I live in Australia I will never be Australian and I dont want to, just like if I was living in China I'd never be Chinese, nor me nor my kids. My last name is Greek. It doesnt become Chinese all of a sudden. Nor a Bulgarian name becomes Greek all of a sudden. Learn to respect people identities instead of trying to make everything the same for your convenience. Dont go around and say crap like "... since the 1800..." about people that have unique language, culture and mythology, preserved to this day since antiquity. The first world empire that respected other civilizations instead of forcing them to give up their religions or way of life, and trully celebrated and respected foreign peoples uniqueness. Dont talk about my country with the same breath as you push political agendas aimed at imprisoning rational thinking that cant be controlled or forced to get in line with the herd.
George Black wrote: » Dygz dont talk about my country unless you know what you are talking about. You are confusing ancient Greek education with being Greek. History is based on writings, cross examination of events. Facts.
Dygz wrote: » George Black wrote: » Dygz dont talk about my country unless you know what you are talking about. You are confusing ancient Greek education with being Greek. History is based on writings, cross examination of events. Facts. LMAO I will talk about any damned thing I want to talk about. I am not confusing Greek education with being Greek. Greece has always allowed assimilated people to be Greek, even in antiquity, regardless of skin color. People of Albanian, Bulgarian, Pakistani descent can be as proud as they want to be of their original ethnic heritage. And they can still be Greek. And they can have children with native Greeks and those children will be Greek, regardless of skin color. The concept of skin tones defining race was not a thing - anywhere - prior to the 1800s. The tirade you went on due to your warped interpretation of what you think I said is on you - it doesn't accurately reflect anything I wrote.
Conrad wrote: » I would be if Steven wasn't hell bent on giving tank class a stupid name such as tank. It makes it hella sound like lore is already established
Dolyem wrote: » At this point I am just going to start memeing
Dygz wrote: » George Black wrote: » LMAO I will talk about any damned thing I want to talk about. I am not confusing Greek education with being Greek. Greece has always allowed assimilated people to be Greek, even in antiquity, regardless of skin color. People of Albanian, Bulgarian, Pakistani descent can be as proud as they want to be of their original ethnic heritage. And they can still be Greek. And they can have children with native Greeks and those children will be Greek, regardless of skin color. The concept of skin tones defining race was not a thing - anywhere - prior to the 1800s. The tirade you went on due to your warped interpretation of what you think I said is on you - it doesn't accurately reflect anything I wrote.
George Black wrote: »
CROW3 wrote: » George Black wrote: » Learn to take no for an answer and appreciete what you have that makes you unique. Except, no one with design authority has said ‘no’ yet. So, your ‘no’ is just as valid as my ‘yes.’ And until Intrepid has a final decision, the discussion continues. I appreciated your rebuttal on Greece. But keep in mind that human culture in Ashes isn’t Greek. It’s influenced by Greek culture. Tolkien’s orcs we’re influenced by the rise of fascism in Germany. That doesn’t make the Urik’ai Nazis or restrict their affect to some Germanic anachronism.
George Black wrote: » Learn to take no for an answer and appreciete what you have that makes you unique.
Dygz wrote: » Merek wrote: » . Players should be able to create Kaelar characters with dark skin that is common among the Vaelune. They should also be able to create Kaelar with Asian features/skin tones and Polynesian features/skin tones and Native American features/skin tones, etc.
Merek wrote: » .
Barbillus wrote: » Let us remember that orcs, elves, dwarfs, goblins, etc are all from Indo-European and specifically Germanic and Celtic cultures, they have always been represented as a mirror image of Germanic and Celtic people. That is why elves have always been depicted as fair with light hair, do not try to suggest this imagery was simply invented by a modern writter. When discussing this topic we must keep in mind that these creatures are depictions from an ancient culture and we must respect the culture that these things come from. Just as if we were discussing Yokai or Yao Guai, we would respect their origins in Han and Japanese culture and represent them as such.
George Black wrote: » Tulnar are only good for pelts
Barbillus wrote: » do not try to suggest this imagery was simply invented by a modern writter.
Dygz wrote: » Merek wrote: » WTF? All I'm advocating for is the races to be genuinely unique, again, what's the point if the only thing that's different about them is their starting stats? I think races that have unique customization options keep the game fresh. If every Elf, Orc or Dwarf you bump into look identical to each other, the world gets a bit bland. I'm sure certain hairstyles or beards would be interchangeable but the core physical attributes that make up each race should stay unique. Right. Which has nothing to do with not being able to make a Kaelar with dark skin. A Kaelar with dark skin does not make every Elf, Orc or Dwarf look identical. A Kaelar with dark skin allows more diversity. A Kaelar with only light skin means they will be closer to being identical.
Merek wrote: » WTF? All I'm advocating for is the races to be genuinely unique, again, what's the point if the only thing that's different about them is their starting stats? I think races that have unique customization options keep the game fresh. If every Elf, Orc or Dwarf you bump into look identical to each other, the world gets a bit bland. I'm sure certain hairstyles or beards would be interchangeable but the core physical attributes that make up each race should stay unique.
Dygz wrote: » What you seem to be saying is that the Kaelar should exclude minorities.
Dygz wrote: » Merek wrote: » Because Netflix likes to pander, just like Blizzard, when they suddenly let Blood Elves be dark-skinned because of a loud minority. It's the same as asking for Redguards to be light-skinned because, "I don't care, I can't play THIS specific race unless they're made in my image!". Pandering. Mmmmmn hmmmmn.
Merek wrote: » Because Netflix likes to pander, just like Blizzard, when they suddenly let Blood Elves be dark-skinned because of a loud minority. It's the same as asking for Redguards to be light-skinned because, "I don't care, I can't play THIS specific race unless they're made in my image!".
Dygz wrote: » They should also be able to create Kaelar with Asian features/skin tones and Polynesian features/skin tones and Native American features/skin tones, etc.
Dygz wrote: » Your Baldur's Gate 3 link is precisely why it's fine for it to be possible to create Kaelar with dark skin. Because the vast majority of players will still create Kaelar with European facial features and light skin. If what you're advocating is a character creator at least as robust as Baldur's Gate 3, then we agree.
Barbillus wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Merek wrote: » . Players should be able to create Kaelar characters with dark skin that is common among the Vaelune. They should also be able to create Kaelar with Asian features/skin tones and Polynesian features/skin tones and Native American features/skin tones, etc. Do not even attempt to bring other races into this, I am Polynesian and I couldn't care less if characters in a game looked like me or not, neither do most Asians or Native Americans. This is entirely about you and your insecurities. Go see a therapist and take your meds
Barbillus wrote: » Dygz wrote: » George Black wrote: » LMAO I will talk about any damned thing I want to talk about. I am not confusing Greek education with being Greek. Greece has always allowed assimilated people to be Greek, even in antiquity, regardless of skin color. People of Albanian, Bulgarian, Pakistani descent can be as proud as they want to be of their original ethnic heritage. And they can still be Greek. And they can have children with native Greeks and those children will be Greek, regardless of skin color. The concept of skin tones defining race was not a thing - anywhere - prior to the 1800s. The tirade you went on due to your warped interpretation of what you think I said is on you - it doesn't accurately reflect anything I wrote. You are a moron who has proved time and time again that you know nothing of history or genetics. The Greeks have always been an Indo-European people with distinct genetics, they only subjected people to Hellenization if they were conquered or within the Hellenic sphere of influence. 90% of the time these people were other Indo-Europeans and never considered Greek, only Hellenic in culture. You are obsessed with skin colour and yet no one has mentioned that as a defining notion of race as you boldly claim. I do not know what schools were teaching in the 60's when you were a kid but obviously it rotted your brain. Stop trying to demolish other ethnicities sense of identity. In the end that is all that you are doing. Everything that comes out of your mush brain is nothing but an insult to ancient and distinct ethnic groups. Stop trying to use the modern world as a reflection of the ancient world, and please stop confusing nationality and ethnicity. It just makes you seem senile. CROW3 wrote: » George Black wrote: » Learn to take no for an answer and appreciete what you have that makes you unique. Except, no one with design authority has said ‘no’ yet. So, your ‘no’ is just as valid as my ‘yes.’ And until Intrepid has a final decision, the discussion continues. I appreciated your rebuttal on Greece. But keep in mind that human culture in Ashes isn’t Greek. It’s influenced by Greek culture. Tolkien’s orcs we’re influenced by the rise of fascism in Germany. That doesn’t make the Urik’ai Nazis or restrict their affect to some Germanic anachronism. Let us remember that orcs, elves, dwarfs, goblins, etc are all from Indo-European and specifically Germanic and Celtic cultures, they have always been represented as a mirror image of Germanic and Celtic people. That is why elves have always been depicted as fair with light hair, do not try to suggest this imagery was simply invented by a modern writter. When discussing this topic we must keep in mind that these creatures are depictions from an ancient culture and we must respect the culture that these things come from. Just as if we were discussing Yokai or Yao Guai, we would respect their origins in Han and Japanese culture and represent them as such.
Merek wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Merek wrote: » WTF? All I'm advocating for is the races to be genuinely unique, again, what's the point if the only thing that's different about them is their starting stats? I think races that have unique customization options keep the game fresh. If every Elf, Orc or Dwarf you bump into look identical to each other, the world gets a bit bland. I'm sure certain hairstyles or beards would be interchangeable but the core physical attributes that make up each race should stay unique. Right. Which has nothing to do with not being able to make a Kaelar with dark skin. A Kaelar with dark skin does not make every Elf, Orc or Dwarf look identical. A Kaelar with dark skin allows more diversity. A Kaelar with only light skin means they will be closer to being identical. I will remind you that each race in the game is a legitimately different race, but because the human races only have different skin tones, you keep equating that to their being only a cultural difference. This is incorrect. Until a developer comes forward and states otherwise, you're lying to yourself and other posters. As an example, take Nords and Redguards, they're races, not simply 'cultures'. Dygz wrote: » What you seem to be saying is that the Kaelar should exclude minorities. What is wrong with you? Who said anything about minorities? Nearly all of your posts on this topic move away from the subject of the game into political race-baiting. It's not constructive and it's weird. Dygz wrote: » Merek wrote: » Because Netflix likes to pander, just like Blizzard, when they suddenly let Blood Elves be dark-skinned because of a loud minority. It's the same as asking for Redguards to be light-skinned because, "I don't care, I can't play THIS specific race unless they're made in my image!". Pandering. Mmmmmn hmmmmn. Yes, pandering. Which a lot of game companies do to appease the loud minority and as we saw in Blizzards case, to take the public eye away from the happenings behind closed doors. They don't really care, it's simply a tactic to subdue the 'offended' in the modern political climate. Dygz wrote: » They should also be able to create Kaelar with Asian features/skin tones and Polynesian features/skin tones and Native American features/skin tones, etc. If any of the two human races were to have Asian features, it would be the Vaelune, as they take racial influence from the Middle East. Dygz wrote: » Your Baldur's Gate 3 link is precisely why it's fine for it to be possible to create Kaelar with dark skin. Because the vast majority of players will still create Kaelar with European facial features and light skin. If what you're advocating is a character creator at least as robust as Baldur's Gate 3, then we agree. What I was highlighting was giving players unlimited choice ended up resulting in bland, generic characters. Which is what we're going to see if this goes unchecked.
