Do you think you are a part of the "Target Audience"? Why or Why not?

I was going to ask this in the related thread, but I feel this question is specific enough to need a separate thread.

I'll start:

I think I am a part of the target audience. Here is why.

I value the emergent storytelling that comes from a persistent open world competitive environment as the apex of modern gaming. Games like Eve, Darkfall Online, Lineage 2, and Mortal Online have been among my favorite examples. Games where the world is not an instanced theme park, but a theater of war for real-world people to not have to role-play, but to actually be a part of a real war. To me, the drama and betrayal that comes from these environments is better than any book I can read or movie I can watch.

This is what Ashes is trying to do with the node and corruption systems. The node system turns the traditional MMORPG world into a living, breathing theater of war. No longer will zones, be static areas for developers to tell their stories, but instead they will be dynamic areas for players to live their stories.

What also appeals to me about Ashes is that, unlike the four games listed above. Ashes has what those games have, and the features of a modern MMORPG. Mounts, cosmetics, housing, and good graphics. I have always said that I love Sci-fi, but if there was a fantasy game that was like EVE with modern third-person combat. That would be the game for me. Ashes is not exactly that, but it is a close enough cousin to get me excited and accept some of the things I feel are flaws.

If you think I am not a part of the "Target Audience", based on anything I have just said. I invite you to tell me why as well.

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CROW3

Elo wrote: »

I will just throw an idea out there that this made me think of. I wonder if something could be built into the lore such that as corruption is gained, then the more people who are in the vicinity, the greater the chance that a god appears and wipes everyone.

I guess that would make atheism a meta build.

akabear

All these additional mechanics suggestions look like a trend to not have the community decide the rules of fair play and exercise justice but the dev`s to provide mechanics to control it..

...from sandbox to themepark to sandbox to themepark again.

Noaani

akabear wrote: »

All these additional mechanics suggestions look like a trend to not have the community decide the rules of fair play and exercise justice but the dev`s to provide mechanics to control it..

...from sandbox to themepark to sandbox to themepark again.

Creating rules for the game isnt what separates a sandbox from a theme park game.

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

Creating rules for the game isnt what separates a sandbox from a theme park game.

On that note.

I would like to point out that the terms "sandbox" and "theme park" as it relates to games has not set definitions. It seems like developers are content to call their games whatever they like.

To make matters extra confusing, Ashes is calling itself a "sand-park". Which I don't think is very helpful to anyone, considering how very few theme park elements are present in Ashes. It just gives people who have not looked at all of the systems in the game a false hope that the game might play somewhat like WOW or FFXIV.

Which is part of the reason behind this thread. I was hoping more people would be explaining what they thought Ashes was all about, when they stated why they think the game is or is not for them.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

To make matters extra confusing, Ashes is calling itself a "sand-park".

What?

Intrepid using pointless marketing terms to describe this game?

Thus is a PvX, sand-park, hybrid combat MMO.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the game!

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

To make matters extra confusing, Ashes is calling itself a "sand-park".

What?

Intrepid using pointless marketing terms to describe this game?

Thus is a PvX, sand-park, hybrid combat MMO.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the game!

Seeing this...
It really is no mystery at all to me that there are so many denominations of a single religion from one book...

mcstackerson

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

To make matters extra confusing, Ashes is calling itself a "sand-park".

What?

Intrepid using pointless marketing terms to describe this game?

Thus is a PvX, sand-park, hybrid combat MMO.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the game!

Yep, that is all they have ever told us. They have never gone into any detail on any of their systems or design philosophies.

I guess you think when they describe the game they should never use any generic terms and spend 10 minutes explaining every feature and system.

You are being silly.

Noaani

mcstackerson wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

To make matters extra confusing, Ashes is calling itself a "sand-park".

What?

Intrepid using pointless marketing terms to describe this game?

Thus is a PvX, sand-park, hybrid combat MMO.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the game!

Yep, that is all they have ever told us. They have never gone into any detail on any of their systems or design philosophies.

I guess you think when they describe the game they should never use any generic terms and spend 10 minutes explaining every feature and system.

You are being silly.

Ok.

How have Intrepid defined PvX?
How have Intrepid defined sand-park?

I'd like a definition solid enough for there to not be any misconceptions left, please.

Sure, hybrid combat they have talked a bit about, but we still have dozens of posters on these forums that are expecting an all action combat system - because Intrepids definition is not nailed down (perhaps because the combat system is not nailed down, but just because there is a reason for something, doesn't mean we can't laugh at it).

mcstackerson

Noaani wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

To make matters extra confusing, Ashes is calling itself a "sand-park".

What?

Intrepid using pointless marketing terms to describe this game?

Thus is a PvX, sand-park, hybrid combat MMO.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the game!

Yep, that is all they have ever told us. They have never gone into any detail on any of their systems or design philosophies.

I guess you think when they describe the game they should never use any generic terms and spend 10 minutes explaining every feature and system.

You are being silly.

Ok.

How have Intrepid defined PvX?
How have Intrepid defined sand-park?

I'd like a definition solid enough for there to not be any misconceptions left, please.

Sure, hybrid combat they have talked a bit about, but we still have dozens of posters on these forums that are expecting an all action combat system - because Intrepids definition is not nailed down (perhaps because the combat system is not nailed down, but just because there is a reason for something, doesn't mean we can't laugh at it).

You are complaining about generic terms but seem to want them to use more generic terms to explain the terms they use.

They have explained most of their systems. While some of the details are not there, we know alot.

I guess i think it's weird because they have told us a lot. I'd understand making fun of making use of those terms if that is all they have said but it's not. It's like you are looking past everything they have told us and focusing on a few things they have said.

Noaani

mcstackerson wrote: »

You are complaining about generic terms

PvE, PvP, Sandbox and Themepark are generic terms.

PvX and sand-park are not.

I mean, all you need to do in order to see the confusion among players is look at this thread and the wide variety of people that think the game is definitely aimed directly at them (there is no way any one game can have both Dygz and George as their target player, as an example).

This thread wouldn't exist if that information was obvious or clear.

Intrepid have told us a lot - but a lot of what they have told us is meaningless in terms of understanding who the game is actually for.

Okeydoke

Well its obvious and clear to me, but some people have specific questions that can't or haven't been answered yet so its understandable they're still on the fence.

But the people that know, know. Like hard-core know

Noaani

Okeydoke wrote: »

But the people that know, know. Like hard-core know

Until they don't.

Okeydoke

I mean sure there's going to be people on the fringes that fall off because this system or that system or this feature doesn't turn out to be what they had in mind. But the general idea of the game is pretty laid out to me. So I know. It would take a radical deviation from the vision laid out for me to fall off.

Noaani

Okeydoke wrote: »

It would take a radical deviation from the vision laid out for me to fall off.

This has happened before.

Look at raid content. There were early comments about how they would like to try and compete directly with WoW in terms of raiding.

Now, maybe it is further along in the games development, and things are more set in stone making such changes less and less likely - but then maybe not, as well.

Okeydoke

Thats one of those unanswered questions. Realistically I know its going to be very hard to compete with wow raiding. If they can pull it off thatd be great. But I'm in with the overall vision regardless. Games going to have far better content than wow even if its raiding isn't as good.

bigepeen

Maybe they will come up with something innovative to allow to open world raids to compete with WoW raids.

Noaani

bigepeen wrote: »

Maybe they will come up with something innovative to allow to open world raids to compete with WoW raids.

Can't happen.

The key thing with open world raids is that there is a limited number of them (usually 1 per week). As such, it is content that can support a good raid game - but it can't be the core content of a game that want's to be competitive with other games in terms of raids.

Some people have suggested that Intrepid could just have more than one spawn per week for encounters, but all that is doing is allowing individual guilds to gear up faster.

Xerheart

I know I'm super fucking late to the convo, but figured I'd throw this together:

I am not the target audience, but I have an interest in becoming one...if that makes sense?

I was/am (on break lul) a mythic raider in WoW. I've either get CE or clear most of the tier on mythic. I've gotten multiple rank 1 parses for Mistweaver monk (Healer parses are a mega meme tho XD, not really indicative of skill) and I consider myself to be a hardcore raider...when I don't get bored and quit...WoW burnout is real nowadays.

Every time a new WoW expac comes out, I get a flood of hype: "Im going to level up my professions this time, I am going to get high rated in PvP, I want to explore every zone and collect the mounts." But it just fizzles out so quickly since WoW's other content is boring to me. But I want, I really do, to be interested in professions, exploration, world pvp (I really love the idea of small-scale skirmishes 5-15 players off to the side of large scale battles). I wanna collect mounts, design a house, hell even RP for the fuck of it maybe.

I get Ashes does not and might not ever have substantial end-game raiding content. But Ashes looks to be the game to finally hook me into all the other content that I've kinda wanted to get into.

(Side note: If Ashes does really well, I would love to see a patch where Intrepid throws in a like, 4 boss instanced raid to see how it goes. But of course, that's just my bias :P )

Vhaeyne

@Xerheart

Your post is exactly why I made this thread. I can tell we are slightly different MMORPG players, but not different enough that we don't have common ground.

Ashes having a focus on open world PvX means that crafting and the economy will always be relevant. So if crafting is something you want, it will always be meaningful in Ashes. The reason why nothing is bound in Ashes and gear needs materials to repair is to keep the never-ending conflict meaningful. Wars are not just fought over slight upgrades, but the supplies needed to even stay in the fight.

I think if you got mixed up with a good guild that was progressing and the guilds problems became your problems. You would be so focused on everything you need to do to make yourself and your guild more powerful. That you would not care about having a mount collection or exploring every zone. You would be too busy crushing it with an actual team of humans to care about end-games the way FFXIV and WOW have them. Things like instanced raids would not matter because your guilds dealings would be too important.

It really does feel like I am the man from Plato's allegory explaining things like trees and the sky to people who have only seen shadows on the cave wall. I am not trying to sound like an elitist or anything. I just truly struggle to find the words to convey how good real competitive open world games MMORPGs can be.

I hope this reply is helpful in some way.

Ironhope

Xerheart wrote: »

I get Ashes does not and might not ever have substantial end-game raiding content. But Ashes looks to be the game to finally hook me into all the other content that I've kinda wanted to get into.

(Side note: If Ashes does really well, I would love to see a patch where Intrepid throws in a like, 4 boss instanced raid to see how it goes. But of course, that's just my bias :P )

The idea that end-game is the focus, that the ''real fun'' is the end game, is a great part of what made mmo-rpgs so stagnant and... honeslty, garbage these last years.

Leveling can be the most fun part of the game if doen right.

WoW Vanilla proved it.
WoW classic proved it again.

When leveling isn't fun and people are paying to skip it... it's because you as a developer made a trash job at designing it.

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