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Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
There aren't a ton of examples, but it's not "no idea".
We have a few pretty good examples.
Battle pets weaken summoner identity'. Only if you fuck up summoner is that remotely true. Pets aren't anywhere near summons. Pets are a walking/flying gear slot and nothing more.
One way to combat METAs is to buff the Race-Class permutations with the least play hours on them. The META would then be balanced out over time due to the portion of the server population that chases advantage, leaving others to just play their preferred race-class. No system is ever going to be perfectly balanced, but at least this approach offers a mechanism that pulls a server towards balance and encourages race-class diversity.
Any thoughts / comments?
I can see how this could work, and it's certainly possible.
For me though, it's crossing a boundary that I associate with micro-management? Not sure what the word is.
Good thinking with changing tank abilities to ranged abilities actually, depending on the augment. Tank/mage or perhaps better yet tank/ranger could make for some really interesting choices for a ranged tank.
I love the prismatic barrier idea. Reflect all damage like you wrote, or absorb/mitigate magic damage for the duration. Changing up abilities through augments to be essentially completely new abilities is something I would love to see.
Umm
Choosing life augments will provide self-healing benefits as well as limited life-giving benefits to other players.[30][28]
Some cleric augments applied to certain skills will indirectly provide the ability to heal others. These will not replace the need for a cleric archetype.[31]
I wouldn't call those examples, these would fall under "vague statements". Because we don't know what they mean, we can only guess...
"Provide self healing out lives giving Benifits to others" is not an example of it in action. That's an idea that hasn't been fleshed out yet.
"Won't replace need for cleric" as in won't heal enough? Or cleric is the only class with resurrection as an ability, and that's why you still need them? Or do clerics have other utility like curse or poison removal, which an x/cleric wouldn't have. We don't KNOW why this sentence is the case. We can only guess.
Examples are actual displays of how it would interact instead of just "hey it could add some healing or something"
Like the fighter mage teleport charge as an example
Or the ranger mage frost arrow
Or the summoner mage spectral beast now has fire damage
Those fall under the definition of example. (And all use mage)
So yeah, I'm pretty confident in saying we don't KNOW a lot when it comes to augments and how they will all work. I'm definitely not arrogant enough to claim to know how they will work...
Like Summoner/Mage : Small Elemental / Elemental / Greater Elemental/ Elemental Lord. Or something like that. It would make their summon much more different then x/Summon or Battle pets
Why are you only posting the wiki synopses rather than what is said in the actual sources?
You should be confident in saying we don't know a lot. Say that.
What you have been saying is we have no idea.
And the way I want to implement our Necromancer is, you can choose to be a Necromancer for Good or a Necromancer for Dark and Twisted things. Either is viable. If you want to work with Spirits that Aid, you can do that. If you want to Summon Zombies and Skeletons, and other types of Undead creatures, you can do that as well.
---Steven
A Summoner that goes with a Cleric Secondary class is going to be a Necromancer. The Necromancer is going to be able to choose the path of Life or Death with regard to its Summoning influences and augments. So, you will be able to either aid and assist in Healing and providing Support either to yourself or the other Summons you may have out or other party members. And the Death side of that augmentation will influence your opponent to inflict damage, to sap life, to manipulate their ability to survive in combat.
The idea behind the system is that you're kind of skirting the line through these augmentations with your role.
We have the traditional holy trinity that's present in class design for MMOs, and it's often that those are not deviated at all or completely deviated entirely.
The augment is to kind of offer a balance between that, where you still maintain the semblance of that trinity system, while offering the opportunity to customize your play experience towards one of the other angles in the triangle.
---Steven
Clerics, as well as Bards, will have direct healing effects. Bards will be much, much, less and will be proximity based. The Base Archetype Cleric will be the predominant healing force/class with some supplemental healing that would be more over-time healing or proc-based healing based on the action of players that's assigned to the Bard role.
One other component there is: Through the secondary class augment features, it will be possible for some base archetypes to augment their Active Skills that will grant either themselves the potential to heal or will have very mitigated healing for others party members also.
And just to give context there, again, the purpose of Secondary Archetypes and the augment system is to blur the line a little bit with the class roles.
So, while we're following a traditional trinity type system in class roles, we are utilizing the secondary augment system to allow players to move the dial a little bit in one direction with the augments.
---Steven
Interesting idea to keep an eye on.
So from what I see Summoner/X will be able to have more than one Summons out at once. Seems I was right about that. It will be a way to have them differents then Battles Pets and X/Summons archetype.
Well could be either Stronger Minion but only 1 out or multiples weakers ones as Skills point maybe. Or something similar to that
All of that is thematic concept or basic ideas for flavor... none of it is an example of the system in action.
Maybe this is just my engineering brain stuck in a loop?
Saying "there is a charge ability and when I apply this augment it changes it like this", is an example.
Saying ranger has charged shot(an activated skill) that I can apply this mage augment to, and this is how it effects it. That hints at scale and depth of how the system works.
Saying
"The Necromancer is going to be able to choose the path of Life or Death with regard to its Summoning influences and augments. So, you will be able to either aid and assist in Healing and providing Support either to yourself or the other Summons you may have out or other party members. And the Death side of that augmentation will influence your opponent to inflict damage, to sap life, to manipulate their ability to survive in combat."
Doesn't give me an example of how much scale these changes have.
Hell we don't know a single summoner spell name yet. How can you say what scale an augment can even changing ability if you don't even know what an ability is?
You will post this block about a necromancer and being able to do path of life where it's straight up says can provide support and healing to yourself and other party members and then say the archetype system does not allow for him to be a healer like you KNOW how much healing or capability that a healing necromancer can do... You don't know shit either dude, yet constantly talk like a know it all for something that doesn't exist yet...
All you're doing is pushing your interpretation of what has been shared. Until we actually see anything in game, everything you say is just your opinion.
You keep saying it's "flavor".
The devs say it's not just flavor, it's radical and fundamental change that moves you closer to a different role.
And, I conceded a few days ago that regardless of what has been said by the devs, you won't be satisfied until you get to see it in the game.
What you said is: "We have no idea what augments are capable of or how much they can change an ability."
That is false.
You then moved the goal post and said, "There are two.
Two examples of augments in action given by devs.
Two data points is not enough for anything...
Correction, three... Although it should be mentioned they are all using mage as the example and two of them are pretty much identical examples."
What you mean is, those examples are not enough for you. Which is also fine.
But, there are more than three examples and they aren't all about Secondary Archetype Mage.
You might have to hunt more to find them...
And...if you did, you might understand better that the augments are not just "flavor".
Is a Bard/Tank off-tanking just flavor?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios
At some point during your adventuring, you’ll be able to augment your primary class with a secondary class, chosen again from the eight archetypes. Do you want your fighter to channel the elemental energies of a mage? Or would you rather your rogue be able to summon a helping hand? Maybe your ranger wants to supplement his healing abilities, or perhaps your bard wants to off-tank? You further specialize your character by choosing this secondary class, augmenting and changing what your core class can do.
Secondary Archetype augments allow you to slide the dial closer to a different role. It does not allow you to swap roles such that an x/Cleric can heal as much as a Cleric/x. That has been covered in multiple dev quotes.
We don't have a precise gauge of how much. The devs have indicated that it's enough to make a Ranger/Cleric feel different from a Ranger/Fighter or Ranger/Bard, but does not enough to swap roles such that Ranger/Cleric rivals a Cleric Ranger when it comes to heals.
According to the dev quotes, it's not just flavor and it also doesn't drastically move the dial to the other role.
It's somewhere in-between.
And Steven wants to leave it at that - just enough info for us to get the gist - so that he doesn't spill all the beans before we have a chance to play/test.
Like that time you said it would be laughable to have any other Tank/x besides Guardian main tank in top-end raids because Guardian is obviously the best Tank combo. And when I asked Steven, he said..."Any Primary Tank is viable, and absolutely not laughable, for an upper end raid. Yes."
Exactly as a I told you.
But, similarly...we could always just ask Steven the question.
You are missing the fact that at the time I said that it is not a matter of game design, or developer intent, but is a case of what players will do.
What you then went and did, after I said it is not a case of game design or developer intent, is ask the developer if the game design and/or developer intent was as I had said, despite having just said that the game design and developer intent are not factors.
If you want to know what players in a top end raid will do, ask a top end raid organizer (like me!), not a game developer.
Just like if I want to know what would compel an adult to play a childs game, I'll ask you!
I, at least, have dev quotes.
How can someone interpret their own actions to be anything other than what those actions were?
You claim you had developer quotes - cool. Thing is, I wasn't talking about game design or developer intent, as made clear at the time, and amply clear in my above post. I was talking about what top end raiders would do.
I had top end raider quotes, which in the case of what top end raiders will do, absolutely trump developer quotes (just as developer quotes trump top end raider quotes in terms of what the games design or developer intent will be - but that isn't and wasn't what was being discussed).
As a top end raid organizer myself, anything I say on the topic is a quote from a top end raid organizer.
As such, when we are talking about what players will do in top end raid situations, my statement trumps that of Steven. This is especially true since Steven isn't even a top end player, let alone a top end raider. At best, his MMO playing experience puts him as a top end antagonist and drama source, his ability to play an MMO in terms of combat is somewhat lackluster - and that is being kind.
All Steven can do is state what they intend to have happen, I can state what players like myself will do - just as I did in regards to combat trackers.
Shouldn't you have me on ignore?
Weapon strike is not an Active Skill.
Teleport augment on Javelin could cause you to Blink.
Death augment on Javelin could cause a Life Sap.
Might be interesting if there were a Death augment that adds Radiant Damage Resistance to Ultimate Defense.
Lots of augments besides just Secondary Archetype augments - even for Bard.
The Kickstarter mentions Bards off-tanking. Seems like "Threat School" and "Damage Mitigation School" augments would work well with Bard Active Skills. As would CC augments on Bard Debuff Active Skills.
I mean, I'm kind of hoping to see Death themed groups - where the entire group focus on Death School augments. Lots of stacking of "Unholy" Damage, but all of the Primary Archetypes would still be playing differently.
With 4 Schools of Tank augments, we should expect two Bard/Tanks to feel different if they focus on different Schools. Just as the devs expect an Elven Fighter to feel differently from a Dwarven Fighter due to Racial augments.
In addition, there are all the augments from Social Orgs, Religions and Nodes.
There is something like that. The same Life School augment will alter Active Skills from other Archetypes differently.
DAMOCLES QUESTION: If I'm a Tank/Mage or a Fighter/Mage are the Mage (augments) the same?
The Mage augment is the same grouping, but the way it affects the Active Skill? You only receive Active Skills from your Primary Archetype and then it gets augmented by your Secondary Archetype.
---Steven
And those augments are different for each class. So, a Mage affects a Fighter differently than a Mage affects a Cleric.
---Jeffrey
Exactly. It will yield a different effect because the base Active Skill is different. But the parent augment is the same. Like Teleportation (School), Elemental (School)...
You take the Mage groupings of augments: you have Teleportation, you have the Elements... those two things get applied to different Active Skills based on your sub-class.
---Steven
With different consequences.
---Jeffrey
Just trying saying this
We.
Don't.
Know.
Yet.
Just give a shot man, it'll probably work out for you...
You mean you don't know.
We know that both of these are possible based on what the devs have said.
The difference, here, would be which of the 4 Tank Schools the augment is coming from.
We're likely to see some form of Damage Mitigation School and also some form of CC School.
Based on what has been said about Mage Schools and Cleric Schools.
This thread is about fans theorycrafting augments based on what the devs have shared about Ashes' augment game design.
And the devs have provided enough info for theorycrafting.
That is a very interesting opinion you have.
We can expect x/Rogues to try to synergize with the Rogue/x and the x/Clerics to try to synergize with the Cleric/x. etc. (Or with each other)...to stack effects and damage types.
If I go fighter/tank instead of fighter/fighter I am doing this for pvp reasons.