so just tested new world lol...

was really hoping new world would be something to play casually until ashes launch but after 12 hours i can say its not for me, even with the absolutely amazing character creation and the beautiful voice acting my character does every time she casts a spell i just couldn't get into it, now with all my eggs in the one basket with ashes i really hope ashes does a better job lol,

the combat in new world ruined it for me, that and the generic same quests you pretty much do over and over, the fact that you lose your entire quest progression if you die with pvp enabled the list goes on, if anyone else has the same opinion please let me know what you would like to see ashes do different from new world

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Fohlenbraten

Couldnt try it so far the queue is to long to log in... the 2000 players server capacity does the rest (in my oppinion a design error in 2021) - actually 183k players playing in europe and 328k are waiting till others leave the servers .... a lot of friends wont be able to play together...

JamesSunderland

New World's dark souls like action combat definitely isn't for everyone especially in the MMORPG playerbase, i also disliked it to its core, i really dislike its dependency on autoattacks because of the limitation of skills avaliable[3 skills on skill bar per weapon (2 weapons)] and their long cooldowns.
As for the quests i just found them average/standard, nothing to praise it about, nothing to trash it about.

Those are problems i simply don't see Ashes having.

JamesSunderland

Fohlenbraten wrote: »

Couldnt try it so far the queue is to long to log in... the 2000 players server capacity does the rest (in my oppinion a design error in 2021) - actually 183k players playing in europe and 328k are waiting till others leave the servers .... a lot of friends wont be able to play together...

2K server capacity in 2021 for an MMORPG (especially one of this scope) is definitely ludicrous.

George_Black

Hmmm... I was just about to download it. I guess I wont.

Sathrago

George Black wrote: »

Hmmm... I was just about to download it. I guess I wont.

well if you do decide to play make sure you choose the lowest pop server to try it out. If you spend 2 hours waiting in queue you will be voiding your ability to refund the game.

George_Black

Sathrago wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

Hmmm... I was just about to download it. I guess I wont.

well if you do decide to play make sure you choose the lowest pop server to try it out. If you spend 2 hours waiting in queue you will be voiding your ability to refund the game.

I have two hours between work and sleep.
Ill pass on NW. I wasnt into the philosophy of it anyway. I dont care for optional content, I want a solid, continuous world.

But it's sad to see how much the core things of mmo are left out:
Classes
Weapons
Abilities
Roles
Guild gameplay
Player interaction

And are being replaced with:
Costumize character
Lifeskills
Gathering
Instanced content
Housing
Story mode

Sathrago

George Black wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

Hmmm... I was just about to download it. I guess I wont.

well if you do decide to play make sure you choose the lowest pop server to try it out. If you spend 2 hours waiting in queue you will be voiding your ability to refund the game.

I have two hours between work and sleep.
Ill pass on NW. I wasnt into the philosophy of it anyway. I dont care for optional content, I want a solid, continuous world.

But it's sad to see how much the core things of mmo are left out:
Classes
Weapons
Abilities
Roles
Guild gameplay
Player interaction

And are being replaced with:
Costumize character
Lifeskills
Gathering
Instanced content
Housing
Story mode

it wouldn't be so bad if the replacements weren't poorly implemented. Even the gathering, something I quite enjoy, is rendered inane due to how the crafting is handled in tandem with the amount of gear gained from pvp/questing/dungeoning.

Because the crafting stations are tied to the town needing to upgrade them, it will take weeks before we see max level crafted gear when you can reach max level in 2-4 days. People will be farming max level content for gear by this time next week while the crafters will barely be at lvl 30 gear regardless of their skill level.

George_Black

I still believe we have way too many lifeskill avenues in games, to the point that they collectivelly lose value and people turn the economy in a competition of who can sell x100 stacks of carrots 2g cheaper than the cheapest guy nearby.

And players are to blame. They want a massive variety of easy/achievement ticking content, simulations of jobs, one character-can-do all, instead of meaningful gathering and crafting. Why? Because they want to play solo. "Oh yeah I crafted a chair, ima go sell it for 15g, there are 100 chairs being sold around me just like mine. Now Ima go catch a fish and sell it for 14g."
Meanwhile everybody else is ABLE to make a chair and catch a fish, without having to sacrifice, let's say, rune making proficiency.

So yeah, a million ways to craft and gather, 3 skills per ability hotbar, no class pride, definition, or even purpose, just customize your characters playstyle and off you go to faceroll the worlds mobs and gather every shinny item-rubbish.
Slap whatever look you want on your gear and you are rdy. Wearing robes, liking plate armor? No problem. Holding axes for the stats? Liking daggers looks? We got you fam. Transmorg is the end game OR take a look at our cash shop.
We are all adults here. We dont like "No" because we have wallets.

And only when you feel like it, you shall PvP in a fps or tekken-like combat. In a safe environment.

I blame the players. They affect developers direction. That is why I need AoC. To put the adventure back in the world and the feeling of achievement about my characters progress.

George_Black

Imagine being bored of a brand new mmo within 12 hours. Back in the day we could not find it in our hearts to log off for basic needs like sleep.

Marcet

It's a different game, just have fun with it.

Obviously it doesn't have the depth and density that ashes wants to create, so what, It's a completely separate thing, stop making this a forced competition.
Appreciate it if you can and if not just don't play, we don't have to be like this.

George_Black

Dont tell me what to do.

SirChancelot

George Black wrote: »

Imagine being bored of a brand new mmo within 12 hours. Back in the day we could not find it in our hearts to log off for basic needs like sleep.

Lulz... Sleep
Making it to class was difficult

bigepeen

Why did you buy the game? Did you not try the game in one of the beta tests?

I figured all of this out in the open beta test. I didn't buy the game for other reasons that you didn't mention in the OP, but regardless, the shortcomings should've been obvious.

George_Black

bigepeen wrote: »

Why did you buy the game? Did you not try the game in one of the beta tests?

I figured all of this out in the open beta test. I didn't buy the game for other reasons that you didn't mention in the OP, but regardless, the shortcomings should've been obvious.

Mention them. It would be a much better post than "just have fun with it".

Plus the devs can get affirmation for their AoC vision from our feedback.

Gizban

Marcet wrote: »

It's a different game, just have fun with it.

Obviously it doesn't have the depth and density that ashes wants to create, so what, It's a completely separate thing, stop making this a forced competition.
Appreciate it if you can and if not just don't play, we don't have to be like this.

Its MMO, but its not a MMORPG, thats for sure.

I watched some review videos and also a stream.
LazyPeon mention that the quests are basically ALL THE SAME: kill xx and open xx chests. Very odd system. Its like the whole leveling process was getting in the way of the game design. The 'end game' IS the game. Everything else is a grind, by the look of it.
Don't care for the combat, animation nor character movement; it reminds me of a console game.

Atama

George Black wrote: »

Dont tell me what to do.

beaushinkle

I'll join in on the dunk-on-new-world-train from my normal economics and systems perspective:

Gameplay Loop:

The gameplay loop for New World is based on Territory Control, and everything else services this gameplay loop. To be better at territory control, you character levels up, equips better items, and improves their weapon skills. To actually declare war, you complete "faction missions", to move the influence bar. Once your influence bar for a particular territory is complete, you can declare war and have an instanced 50v50 fight against the enemy guild.

In order to level up, you do PvE and quests (especially town-hall resource turn-ins). In order to level your weapon skills, you kill stuff with those weapons. In order to equip good items, you mostly just ignore the crafting system and use the faction vendors (hilariously).

Broadly, this would be fine.

Unfortunately, the PvE is incredibly repetitive. There are less than 20 mob types that get copy+pasted throughout the world with different levels in different areas with super similar AI designs. It's supposed to play like a souls-like, but there isn't any hitstun and the mobs don't have reactable startup frames on their attacks, and their damage isn't punishing, so the optimal strat is to just spam m1 and then heal through the damage. See this extremely high quality explainer for more information here.

The quests are similarly repetitive. MMOs don't usually have a lot to work with mechanically - you tend to be able to either press `e` to interact or kill things, and that's the extent to how you can influence the world. The trick is how the MMO flavors it. Hopefully, killing things, dynamically causes other stuff to happen. Or there's some NPC talking to you. Or the things you're interacting with change in some way, etc.

For instance:

Say that you find out that there's a nearby gang of bandits capturing local militia-men and making them do forced labor in some nearby mines. You go around killing bandit-guards and then interacting with their corpes to collect keys. This lets you interact with the friendly militia's shackle's to free them. The militia need to be armed (more interaction), and then they'll help you out for freeing them. After you do this enough, it'll spawn the bandit-lord who is elite and very tough. With the help of all of your militia-men, you're able to defeat him.

If you check the mechanics, it's still just fighting and press-e-to-interact, but they've flavored it in a way that it's interesting. Tons of ways to do this.

New World never does any of this - they don't bother.

Faction Influence

If my company wants to take over windsward, we repeat faction PvP-flagged faction missions (the same 3) over and over to move an influence bar to 100%. These missions follow the same pattern: "go to an area and stay alive for 90s. In that area, click on box A, and then run to box B and click on it. While you're there, [chop 30 tree / kill 6 turkeys / whatever]" That's all 3 missions.

For reasons I'll get to later down in the post, it's incredibly difficult to stop someone from completing these if they're determined to do so (because it's hard to kill someone who doesn't want to die). You can probably stop them from clicking the boxA/boxB thing, but can't prevent them from just living for 90 seconds. This means that they'll eventually be able to turn in their influence missions and eventually be able to move the bar to 100%.

Besides, what are you even doing in that area? You presumably already own it!

So, what ends up happening is that the folks who take over an area don't defend it and then just go start working on taking over some other area. No PvP actually happens and instead you have merry-go-round faction missions where players just avoid each other (did I mention that the game rewards players for completing these missions with currency?)

Faction Population Balance

New World has a 3-faction systems, with no real incentives to be the losing faction, and economic incentive to be in the winning faction. You're allowed to switch factions (after 3 months), but not to the faction with the most number of players. Can anyone guess what'll happen? Green and Purple dominate every server, and Yellow barely holds any territory. The Yellow folks will get tired of not being able to do content (faction wars), not being able to collect taxes, and will faction switch to whatever the second-largest faction is.

This will make that faction larger until it's as large as the biggest faction, and Yellow will keep bleeding until the server has a basically even split of Green/Purple.

If they try to make it so that there's an incentive to be on the losing faction, then folks will intentionally lose. I have no idea how anyone green-lit a three-party system.

Once the servers are 2-party (3 months from now), that means that you are unable to PvP against half of the population in the open world (which is a shame).

Gear

There's a crafting economy that doesn't require any real specialization other than an investment of time, and one of the crafted items is gear. Unfortunately, there are no gear sinks. This means that once you have your BiS gear, and once the server is saturated with max-level gear and max-level players, crafting gear becomes worthless (like in every other MMO where they somehow forgot to do this). Gear can be repaired indefinitely.

Combat

This video can explain some of the fundamentals better than I can, but doesn't go into a few other gripes I have. The creator talks about hitstun and spacing, and those are super important for a system like this to function. I agree. The creator talks about how mobs need to have reactable telegraphs. I agree. They don't.

The combat itself also don't have any real form of yomi. The attacks worth dodging are reactably slow and can't be feinted. So, you just don't dodge until you see the huge wind-up, and then you dodge. There's no way to bait the dodge out and get them to mess up.

If your opponent starts running away from you, you have gap closers. Those gap closers can be dodged. You can run while holding your "look behind me" keybind. The gap closer cannot be canceled or feinted, so no mindgame there. There's a gap. Everyone moves at the same speed. All of the gap closers are also gap-creators. I have to use my charge to catch up. You wait for me to use it and dodge. After you dodge, you charge to create space. Repeat until you're safely in town.

Back when there was hit-stun, landing the first hit, or outspacing your opponent mattered. It put you at frame-advantage, and made it so that they had to respond to your pressure. Now that there is none, it's all about who can trade favorably, since neither player can really stop the other player from doing what they're doing.

Consider this. The hatchet has an ability called berserk that gives you a 10-second buff that:

increases your damage by 20%
heals you for 40% of your total HP scaling with everything
makes you move 20% faster
makes you immune to cc

once the buff runs out, there's a 14 second cooldown before you can reapply it. Can you guess the gameplan? Pop berserk. Trade favorably. After berserk runs out, switch to another weapon to disengage. Run around avoiding damage until berserk is available again. Repeat. wheeeeeeeeee

All of that said, everyone is total trash at the game, presumably because it attracted a bunch of MMO players when really the concepts are closer to fighting game concepts. It's been a lot of fun 1v5ing and 2v8ing above-level players using meta builds (hatchet / greataxe for open world, life staff / great axe for organized) before other players discover them. I don't think the game will be interesting at all in this state once players are actually good at the game.

Yuyukoyay

The game seems to have no scope. Which is typical of a game designed just by throwing money at it. Doesn't mean the game always has to be that way, but I don't see it lasting long if they don't plan on constantly changing it quite rapidly. I also can't trust new world development based on how much sneaky shit they already tried to pull.

It's pretty obvious the game was developed from a money maker perspective. Which often isn't how all other successful MMO's are designed. Every other MMO that topped the charts was designed from the perspective of making the best damn game they can make. Then how to monetize it to make it work from there came after.

When you think about money first you get mobile gaming. When you think about pleasing the customer first you get PC gaming at it's best.

beaushinkle

I actually think it got broken from feedback, more or less. They set out to create a souls-like full-loot survivalist MMO, but then the community didn't understand hitstun (how come I can't attack back when I get hit?), didn't want to lose their gear when they died, and wanted PvE, so they had to hard pivot. In the process of pivoting, they lost vision and you end up with the confused mess we have now.

Not to say that this explains all of my gripes above

Noaani

beaushinkle wrote: »

They set out to create a souls-like full-loot survivalist MMO

To be fair, the game as it is now will have a longer life than this ever would have.

That server limit the game has now would have served the game well if they kept this premise for the game alive, and they would have only needed the one server.

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