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what about the casual / intermittent player?

Now that I have a family I became an intermitent or casual player at best. Meaning I can play 5-10 hours a week for a few weeks then I'll be completely off for a few months.

Also, knowing that we can store extra items in a stash on a freehold and that the freehold could be destroyed and looted
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Freeholds
And knowing that on char death we can loose materials/...
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Loot_tables#playerdeath

So knowing all this, we can see that simply having stuff in AoC will be challenge.
Now if I log off for a few months and I come back to find that almost all I had is gone, my incentive to come back will be greatly diminished.
People have real lives that they need to care of, whether it's a week of vacation, caring for elderly parent of simply a change of pace in the gaming habit.

So my question to the AoC dev is: Is there a plan for those players so that they don't lose everything?
For the community: What do think should be done? Should there be any sort of safe stash or should those "absentees" be left to whatever the world of AoC has in store for them. (Might be nothing happens, might be they have nothing!)
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Comments

  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    Casual players will have to adapt to Ashes. It’s a slippery track toward mediocrity if Ashes adapts to casual players.

    I suggest finding those things you can do casually that you’ll enjoy with low to moderate investment, and curbing any expectations that Ashes will adjust for you.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Nalfeind wrote: »
    So my question to the AoC dev is: Is there a plan for those players so that they don't lose everything?
    For the community: What do think should be done? Should there be any sort of safe stash or should those "absentees" be left to whatever the world of AoC has in store for them. (Might be nothing happens, might be they have nothing!)
    I think a key thing is understanding what can and can not be taken from you.

    If you maintain your wealth in raw materials on your character, you stand to lose them.

    If you maintain your wealth in items stored in your freehold, you stand to lose them.

    If you maintain your wealth in gold that you keep on your character, you do not stand to lose it, at all, ever.

    Find what means of wealth storage are not subject to loss, and use those to store your wealth until you are ready to use it.

    Another key point is that while your freehold can be "destroyed" and looted, you get the blueprint to place your freehold as it was when it was destroyed. So you lose materials that were stored, but not the freehold. All you need to do to get it right back to where it was is find another node to become a citizen of (you lost your node citizenship when your node lost the siege), and find a spot for it.

    Then when you place it (and maybe have a trivial building process), you have your freehold back just how it was.

    It is also worth pointing out that since it is all players that are suffering these losses in Ashes, not just casual players, it is kind of just a part of the game and should be expected - up to a point. You need to go in to Ashes knowing that you will sometimes lose things, and that is ok.
  • Nalfeind wrote: »
    Now that I have a family I became an intermitent or casual player at best. Meaning I can play 5-10 hours a week for a few weeks then I'll be completely off for a few months.

    Why does having a family mean that you can't play for months on end? If I'm in the house while the kids are in bed, PC Gaming seems like the obvious choice.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited October 7
    Nalfeind wrote: »
    So my question to the AoC dev is: Is there a plan for those players so that they don't lose everything?
    For the community: What do think should be done? Should there be any sort of safe stash or should those "absentees" be left to whatever the world of AoC has in store for them. (Might be nothing happens, might be they have nothing!)

    Anything you have on you character will obviously not be lost if you are logged off for a month. All finished items (aka not gathered or processed goods) are safe as well if stored in freehold or node. If the node/freehold is destroyed, the finished items will be mailed back (or whatever recovery system they use). So for rare materials and anything else you can drop, you need to have friends that hold it for you, or store it on alts that you only log in when the coast is clear. Or sell and keep the gold.

    I don't think we should have long term safe storage in the game other than what is already planned.
  • Nerror wrote: »
    or store it on alts that you only log in when the coast is clear

    Shhhhhhhhh! Don't tell them all...!
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    edited October 7
    Ashes also supports casual time players, but...

    If you won't play games where you have to find new place to store your stuff, Ashes is not the game for you.
    Unlikely the world will be the same if you are gone for months.
    Even if your home Node still exists, it could be governed by a race you don't like and/or ruled by a Mayor or Monarch you don't like, causing you to want to move to a different Node.
  • I'm on a similar situation, having a family and all that, but I don't worry about it too much, it's not that big of a deal honestly.
    Nalfeind wrote: »
    So my question to the AoC dev is: Is there a plan for those players so that they don't lose everything?
    For the community: What do think should be done? Should there be any sort of safe stash or should those "absentees" be left to whatever the world of AoC has in store for them. (Might be nothing happens, might be they have nothing!)

    When you know you're gonna be offline for a month, sell everything you can, grab everything you want and logoff with everything in your inventory. I'm pretty sure you'll be safe.
  • Those are good tips! Thank you.
  • If gold doesn't have a carry weight or some storage limit on your character, then it should be possible to liquidize almost all of your assets and store it on your character. For any important items that you don't want to liquidize, you can either entrust them to a friend or put them on alts.
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Nalfeind wrote: »
    Now that I have a family I became an intermitent or casual player at best. Meaning I can play 5-10 hours a week for a few weeks then I'll be completely off for a few months.

    Why does having a family mean that you can't play for months on end? If I'm in the house while the kids are in bed, PC Gaming seems like the obvious choice.

    a zzzquil smoothie before bed goes a long way :wink: lol

    (I'm only joking, I wouldn't recommend giving children sleep aids so parents could game. Just a twisted sense of humor)
  • Nalfeind wrote: »
    Now that I have a family I became an intermitent or casual player at best. Meaning I can play 5-10 hours a week for a few weeks then I'll be completely off for a few months.

    Also, knowing that we can store extra items in a stash on a freehold and that the freehold could be destroyed and looted
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Freeholds
    And knowing that on char death we can loose materials/...
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Loot_tables#playerdeath

    So knowing all this, we can see that simply having stuff in AoC will be challenge.
    Now if I log off for a few months and I come back to find that almost all I had is gone, my incentive to come back will be greatly diminished.
    People have real lives that they need to care of, whether it's a week of vacation, caring for elderly parent of simply a change of pace in the gaming habit.

    So my question to the AoC dev is: Is there a plan for those players so that they don't lose everything?
    For the community: What do think should be done? Should there be any sort of safe stash or should those "absentees" be left to whatever the world of AoC has in store for them. (Might be nothing happens, might be they have nothing!)

    If you know that before hand you can plan around it. The biggest and buisiest node will be the hardest to attack, because there will be way more people inclined to defend it. You can assume that those have the highest survivability chance. You'll be able to join different groups, not only your node citizen ship, but also faith, and guild for example. My advise is if you know before hand that your going to be absent, or can suddenly be recalled to be absent for longer periods of time, is to spread your reasources. Have a bit in different freeholds have a bit in the guild or faith, have a bit stored at the market place for the longest time at absurd prices so they don't buy it (or you make a huge profit) Minimize the risk of loosing everything.
  • George BlackGeorge Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Dont go swimming wearing snowboarding equipment and then complain.
  • VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    I think the beauty of MMORPGs and Ashes of Creation by nature is that they can often be played in drastically different ways by different players. For example, I know some people who have put thousands of hours into WoW and all they do is RP, where as all I do is raid and PvP.

    I think a way to look at this situation is to think of and explore all the different ways you can enjoy the game and it's many systems with your particular schedule and lifestyle :)
  • Kesthely wrote: »
    If you know that before hand you can plan around it. The biggest and buisiest node will be the hardest to attack, because there will be way more people inclined to defend it. You can assume that those have the highest survivability chance. You'll be able to join different groups, not only your node citizen ship, but also faith, and guild for example. My advise is if you know before hand that your going to be absent, or can suddenly be recalled to be absent for longer periods of time, is to spread your reasources. Have a bit in different freeholds have a bit in the guild or faith, have a bit stored at the market place for the longest time at absurd prices so they don't buy it (or you make a huge profit) Minimize the risk of loosing everything.

    Yep! Don't keep all your eggs in the one basket!
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Nalfeind wrote: »
    Now that I have a family I became an intermitent or casual player at best. Meaning I can play 5-10 hours a week for a few weeks then I'll be completely off for a few months.

    Why does having a family mean that you can't play for months on end? If I'm in the house while the kids are in bed, PC Gaming seems like the obvious choice.

    Eh, we shouldn’t assume people’s situations. There might be a very valid reason for not being on for months. What might be an obvious solution to one person might be unfeasible for another.

    But for the OP question, there have been many points made, make some Alts for storage, sell your stuff, maybe even hand things over to a trusted friend or guildmate, or maybe even the guild storage is an option.

    On the other side, we have to accept the game for what it is like someone also said. This game will be an ever living and ever evolving thing and we shouldn’t expect things to stay the same after a few months away. Loss will be part of the game and we should have an understanding of that. Best we can do is mitigate and enjoy the game when we do come back to it.

  • ptitoineptitoine Member
    edited October 8
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Casual players will have to adapt to Ashes.

    In a game there will always have more casual then max raider. Because people have life outside of a video games. Like they need to work to be able to play that said video games.

    So I dont think the game should be just focused on Elite player but have a middle ground for both party to be able to enjoy.

    Of course if you dont log for a long period the world will be changed and you'll have missed thing. But I just hope the game isnt made just for raid content only like WoW seem to be doing lately

  • MerekMerek Member
    If you don't play for a week, it's somewhat likely things may change, however, if you don't login for a few months things will definitely change. This should be obvious as it's an immersive sandbox MMORPG, right? That means your argument can be boiled down to "Me, me, me.", but you're either forgetting or outright ignoring that this is an MMORPG, not a singleplayer RPG. It's a selfish argument and my main counter to it is, if you can't put the effort in, don't play.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    ptitoine wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Casual players will have to adapt to Ashes.

    In a game there will always have more casual then max raider.
    While this may be true, there are far more people between these two groups than in both of them combined.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    ptitoine wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Casual players will have to adapt to Ashes.

    In a game there will always have more casual then max raider.
    While this may be true, there are far more people between these two groups than in both of them combined.

    Also, I have know a good number of casual top end raiders. People logging on 6 - 7 hours a week and killing the hardest encounters in the game.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    ptitoine wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Casual players will have to adapt to Ashes.

    In a game there will always have more casual then max raider.
    While this may be true, there are far more people between these two groups than in both of them combined.

    Also, I have know a good number of casual top end raiders. People logging on 6 - 7 hours a week and killing the hardest encounters in the game.

    Well to me I dont consider time factor to see if someone is casual. Cause someone can play 20h and still be casual. I consider someone High end by what they are accomplishing.

    See for you 6-7h a week is casual but they still doing End-game dungeon. So to me they are not casual. Cause they did the objectives they wanted. Time isnt really a good factor for MMorpgs to consider people casuals I think. If you say phones games and such i'd say yeah cause these game are time based
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Two spectra of casual
    Casual Time
    Casual Challenge
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    edited October 12
    ptitoine wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Casual players will have to adapt to Ashes.

    In a game there will always have more casual then max raider. Because people have life outside of a video games. Like they need to work to be able to play that said video games.

    So I dont think the game should be just focused on Elite player but have a middle ground for both party to be able to enjoy.

    Of course if you dont log for a long period the world will be changed and you'll have missed thing. But I just hope the game isnt made just for raid content only like WoW seem to be doing lately

    End game raiding isn’t the focus for Ashes. Raiding, PvP, crafting & the economy, node expansion, and exploration are all things that a player can do. Casual players can find what of these things they can do and to what extent.

    My point is that Intrepid would serve the game & community best by not lowering the ceiling of possibility to match the expectations of casual players. I’d rather have higher peaks I may not reach because of my RL schedule, than a more accessible yet mediocre experience.

    Wow is a perfect example of how casual focus watered down a better possible gameplay experience.

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    ptitoine wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    ptitoine wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Casual players will have to adapt to Ashes.

    In a game there will always have more casual then max raider.
    While this may be true, there are far more people between these two groups than in both of them combined.

    Also, I have know a good number of casual top end raiders. People logging on 6 - 7 hours a week and killing the hardest encounters in the game.

    Well to me I dont consider time factor to see if someone is casual. Cause someone can play 20h and still be casual. I consider someone High end by what they are accomplishing.

    See for you 6-7h a week is casual but they still doing End-game dungeon. So to me they are not casual. Cause they did the objectives they wanted. Time isnt really a good factor for MMorpgs to consider people casuals I think. If you say phones games and such i'd say yeah cause these game are time based

    This is true, but what it does do is it removes the excuses a lot of people make.

    Anyone that says they are only casual because of family is lying. Having a family may limit the amount of time you can play a game, I think all reasonable people can see that to be the case.

    It doesn't force you to be casual though. You can still play the game in what ever manner you chose when you do indeed have time to play.
  • ptitoine wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    ptitoine wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Casual players will have to adapt to Ashes.

    In a game there will always have more casual then max raider.
    While this may be true, there are far more people between these two groups than in both of them combined.

    Also, I have know a good number of casual top end raiders. People logging on 6 - 7 hours a week and killing the hardest encounters in the game.

    Well to me I dont consider time factor to see if someone is casual. Cause someone can play 20h and still be casual. I consider someone High end by what they are accomplishing.

    See for you 6-7h a week is casual but they still doing End-game dungeon. So to me they are not casual. Cause they did the objectives they wanted. Time isnt really a good factor for MMorpgs to consider people casuals I think. If you say phones games and such i'd say yeah cause these game are time based

    I hate to use wow as an example but someone who can only play six to seven hours a week is not getting cutting edge anytime soon. That just literally is not enough time to grind the gear to reach that level.

    When I say something like "I don't have the free time to play the way I used to"I mean that as an "I don't have the time to put into the game to reach the level that I used to".

    But that's just life, I'll accept that and I don't want them to change anything for it. But people in my boat want to at least be able to play and enjoy the game without constantly getting shit on.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Ashes game design also includes roles and activities for casual players, so I dunno what "lowering the ceiling of possibility" means.
    But... going back to the OP...
    Casual time players will certainly have just deal with the fact that their home Node might be destroyed if they are away from the game for weeks or months. The world could be significantly different after a span f months because Ashes is a dynamic world, rather than a static world.
    Very likely you won't even be able to hunt or harvest the same things in the same locations you once did - if you have been gone for months.
    Being gone for weeks or months might require you to "relearn" how to level - since where you go to do the stuff you like to do might be in a different location.
  • I hate to use wow as an example but someone who can only play six to seven hours a week is not getting cutting edge anytime soon. That just literally is not enough time to grind the gear to reach that level.


    On the first weeks of a release I agree. But now in SHadowland all you need to do it Sylvannas raid and the rest is pretty much useless except if people want to grind reputation but even there rep are only usefull for Alt
  • In my opinion, the best design to fit both casual and hardcore players is an economy based progression, where even if you only got an hour a day you're still able to put a few more gold coins onto the pile and take those few satisfying steps towards a goal.

  • Hopefully casual players will be able to top up their in-game time by using the companion app!
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Hopefully casual players will be able to top up their in-game time by using the companion app!

    That would be cool
    But I can't even have my phone at work
    T.T
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    ptitoine wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    ptitoine wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Casual players will have to adapt to Ashes.

    In a game there will always have more casual then max raider.
    While this may be true, there are far more people between these two groups than in both of them combined.

    Also, I have know a good number of casual top end raiders. People logging on 6 - 7 hours a week and killing the hardest encounters in the game.

    Well to me I dont consider time factor to see if someone is casual. Cause someone can play 20h and still be casual. I consider someone High end by what they are accomplishing.

    See for you 6-7h a week is casual but they still doing End-game dungeon. So to me they are not casual. Cause they did the objectives they wanted. Time isnt really a good factor for MMorpgs to consider people casuals I think. If you say phones games and such i'd say yeah cause these game are time based

    I hate to use wow as an example but someone who can only play six to seven hours a week is not getting cutting edge anytime soon. That just literally is not enough time to grind the gear to reach that level.

    When I say something like "I don't have the free time to play the way I used to"I mean that as an "I don't have the time to put into the game to reach the level that I used to".

    But that's just life, I'll accept that and I don't want them to change anything for it. But people in my boat want to at least be able to play and enjoy the game without constantly getting shit on.

    In WoW this is true, but as with most things in the MMO space, WoW is the exception, not the rule.
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