How do you think Alpha 2 and Beta testing will play out?

The Chinese have the saying "to see the future, look to the past" - based on your experiences how do you think the test phases will progress?

I'm not sure what was learnt from APOC.

Alpha 1 dropped the Ranger from the expected archetypes and bows didn't work as required. Quest and boss content was more than expected. [EDIT: Expectations may vary!]

Do you think Alpha 2 will start with missing "things" and have to go through iterations for months with multiple server up / server down periods until it is "functionally complete"? or will Intrepid go silent for a long period and pop into Alpha 2 with all the systems present but in a state that needs a few months of testing and tweaking?

Do you think that Intrepid will be "a little naughty" and move some Alpha 2 test candidates in their Beta test?

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daveywavey

I think it'll be fun, cos I'm actually in Alpha-2 (assuming my old PC can handle it

)

Very much looking forward to finding weird and wonderful places to get stuck in.

mfckingjoker

I think that they just need time to implement few more stuff and put all things back together for some tests before introducing alpha 2. I am 100% sure that they had lot more stuff ready (just maybe not tested enough) while alpha 1 was ongoing.

McMackMuck

@mfckingjoker
What makes you so confident that they have more in hand?
The only thing I see strong evidence of is the ability to churn out a large volume of art assets. This is supported by the relentless monthly update of the cash shop cosmetics and ongoing artist-heavy recruitment.
https://intrepidstudios.com/careers
I'm not saying that you're wrong, I was just wondering what you base your comments on?

daveywavey

They've been mentioning the team they've put together to tackle the combat re-vamp. There are more archetypes to reveal. There's still the artisan professions to see. There's plenty to bring to both Alpha-2 and the Betas.

Azherae

McMackMuck wrote: »

The Chinese have the saying "to see the future, look to the past" - based on your experiences how do you think the test phases will progress?

I'm not sure what was learnt from APOC.

Alpha 1 dropped the Ranger from the expected archetypes and bows didn't work as required. Quest and boss content was more than expected.

Do you think Alpha 2 will start with missing "things" and have to go through iterations for months with multiple server up / server down periods until it is "functionally complete"? or will Intrepid go silent for a long period and pop into Alpha 2 with all the systems present but in a state that needs a few months of testing and tweaking?

Do you think that Intrepid will be "a little naughty" and move some Alpha 2 test candidates in their Beta test?

I don't think there will be an Alpha-2, in the form that was described originally, at all. I also think that will be a good thing.

Based on my experience in software development, and what I've seen from Alpha-1 participation, drawing a line from what is ready, to what we get, and the number of things I have seen firsthand that indicate a set of things that (correctly) has some scaffolding thrown under it so that it is presentable enough to get first impressions from players, I'd say that Intrepid is eventually going to decide to roll out 'Test weekends' or similar.

They'll get something working, throw it up for 'Spot testing', and then use that hype to keep focus and discussion going. I'd guess that they are currently in the process of building enough scaffolding under stuff that really can't stand up to players, to do this.

Of course, I'm really interested to see what happens if they don't do this. I always like learning why I'm wrong about my predictions, and I really really want to be wrong for this game (not that I think Ashes will fail in any way, mostly I would just love to be able to play a highly functional Alpha-2 without reading 900 half-baked forum debates on stuff that they are testing out).

I wonder if they will somehow 'reinstate partial NDA'...

mfckingjoker

McMackMuck wrote: »

@mfckingjoker
What makes you so confident that they have more in hand?
The only thing I see strong evidence of is the ability to churn out a large volume of art assets. This is supported by the relentless monthly update of the cash shop cosmetics and ongoing artist-heavy recruitment.
https://intrepidstudios.com/careers
I'm not saying that you're wrong, I was just wondering what you base your comments on?

Well alpha 1 was rly barebones in the sense that they just wanted to test if fundamental things work, like server stability. They didn't want to put more stuff in because they have to be tested internally first. I'm not saying the game was ready before alpha 1 but I'm just making an assumption based on what they intended to have alpha 1 for. As a software engineer I've done that personally with my company, having features ready before showcasing them just for future content so they might have done the same

McShave

Heres some things i expect to see in Alpha 2

- most primary classes, maybe excluding summoner and maybe bard.
- augmentation to some extent
- all races besides tulnar
- naval exploration and combat
- nodes to level 4 or 5
- node and guild/ player caravans
- something resembling the fundamentals of many of the artisan skills

To what Azherea said, I think Intrepid has to do a persistent development like Alpha 1. You need people to go through the leveling and grinding to simulate a server's node progression, or develop some sort of fake node progressor that simulates node development.

Nerror

At the beginning of Alpha 2 I expect we'll have the basic world layout done with flora and fauna most places.

We'll have some working systems, and some new stuff to test compared to Alpha 1. Maybe 1-2 classes more, like fighter and ranger or rogue.

Then as the months pass, they just slowly add more and more systems and content and classes when internal testing have taken care of the more game breaking stuff.

maouw

For beta 1 (or even the slimmest chance in a2), I'm hoping for something that Kevin Jordan described: A "first fruits" taste of 1 area of the game that is fully polished - that beta players can sink their teeth into and say "YES. This is it! I want the rest of Verra to be like this!" with the rest of Verra undergoing polish.

That seems so so far away though.
Baby steps.

overfitneuralnet

Azherae wrote: »

McMackMuck wrote: »

The Chinese have the saying "to see the future, look to the past" - based on your experiences how do you think the test phases will progress?

I'm not sure what was learnt from APOC.

Alpha 1 dropped the Ranger from the expected archetypes and bows didn't work as required. Quest and boss content was more than expected.

Do you think Alpha 2 will start with missing "things" and have to go through iterations for months with multiple server up / server down periods until it is "functionally complete"? or will Intrepid go silent for a long period and pop into Alpha 2 with all the systems present but in a state that needs a few months of testing and tweaking?

Do you think that Intrepid will be "a little naughty" and move some Alpha 2 test candidates in their Beta test?

I don't think there will be an Alpha-2, in the form that was described originally, at all. I also think that will be a good thing.

Based on my experience in software development, and what I've seen from Alpha-1 participation, drawing a line from what is ready, to what we get, and the number of things I have seen firsthand that indicate a set of things that (correctly) has some scaffolding thrown under it so that it is presentable enough to get first impressions from players, I'd say that Intrepid is eventually going to decide to roll out 'Test weekends' or similar.

They'll get something working, throw it up for 'Spot testing', and then use that hype to keep focus and discussion going. I'd guess that they are currently in the process of building enough scaffolding under stuff that really can't stand up to players, to do this.

Of course, I'm really interested to see what happens if they don't do this. I always like learning why I'm wrong about my predictions, and I really really want to be wrong for this game (not that I think Ashes will fail in any way, mostly I would just love to be able to play a highly functional Alpha-2 without reading 900 half-baked forum debates on stuff that they are testing out).

I wonder if they will somehow 'reinstate partial NDA'...

I think that if Alpha 2 is not up to par with that they said it would be, that would be concerning. It's still an Alpha, but by their words it should technically have all of the systems that are supposed to be in the game operational. This includes classes, races, artisan classes, combat, PvP, sieges, nodes, events and so on and so forth. If something major is missing, like classes or professions, or the combat is still in disarray, I , personally, would be a bit worried. That doesn't mean they won't get them out eventually, BUT the later you introduce something for testing, the less time you have to refine it.

Mahes

I think that in 3 years when Alpha 2 begins they will indeed have a lot of the basic systems in place. I also think most of the class systems will be done. The level cap will of course go up as will expansion of territory. Nodes should be working as basically intended as well.

That said, there will be plenty of bugs to get ironed out as a lot of new content will have been added.

Noaani

Azherae wrote: »

I don't think there will be an Alpha-2, in the form that was described originally, at all. I also think that will be a good thing.

Based on my experience in software development, and what I've seen from Alpha-1 participation, drawing a line from what is ready, to what we get, and the number of things I have seen firsthand that indicate a set of things that (correctly) has some scaffolding thrown under it so that it is presentable enough to get first impressions from players, I'd say that Intrepid is eventually going to decide to roll out 'Test weekends' or similar.

They'll get something working, throw it up for 'Spot testing', and then use that hype to keep focus and discussion going. I'd guess that they are currently in the process of building enough scaffolding under stuff that really can't stand up to players, to do this.

This is about what I think will happen as well - though I expect the testing periods to be a little longer than a weekend (a week or so).

I also half expect them to start doing specific tests for holidays and such next year, with themed cosmetics and such.

Azherae

overfitneuralnet wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

McMackMuck wrote: »

The Chinese have the saying "to see the future, look to the past" - based on your experiences how do you think the test phases will progress?

I'm not sure what was learnt from APOC.

Alpha 1 dropped the Ranger from the expected archetypes and bows didn't work as required. Quest and boss content was more than expected.

Do you think Alpha 2 will start with missing "things" and have to go through iterations for months with multiple server up / server down periods until it is "functionally complete"? or will Intrepid go silent for a long period and pop into Alpha 2 with all the systems present but in a state that needs a few months of testing and tweaking?

Do you think that Intrepid will be "a little naughty" and move some Alpha 2 test candidates in their Beta test?

I don't think there will be an Alpha-2, in the form that was described originally, at all. I also think that will be a good thing.

Based on my experience in software development, and what I've seen from Alpha-1 participation, drawing a line from what is ready, to what we get, and the number of things I have seen firsthand that indicate a set of things that (correctly) has some scaffolding thrown under it so that it is presentable enough to get first impressions from players, I'd say that Intrepid is eventually going to decide to roll out 'Test weekends' or similar.

They'll get something working, throw it up for 'Spot testing', and then use that hype to keep focus and discussion going. I'd guess that they are currently in the process of building enough scaffolding under stuff that really can't stand up to players, to do this.

Of course, I'm really interested to see what happens if they don't do this. I always like learning why I'm wrong about my predictions, and I really really want to be wrong for this game (not that I think Ashes will fail in any way, mostly I would just love to be able to play a highly functional Alpha-2 without reading 900 half-baked forum debates on stuff that they are testing out).

I wonder if they will somehow 'reinstate partial NDA'...

I think that if Alpha 2 is not up to par with that they said it would be, that would be concerning. It's still an Alpha, but by their words it should technically have all of the systems that are supposed to be in the game operational. This includes classes, races, artisan classes, combat, PvP, sieges, nodes, events and so on and so forth. If something major is missing, like classes or professions, or the combat is still in disarray, I , personally, would be a bit worried. That doesn't mean they won't get them out eventually, BUT the later you introduce something for testing, the less time you have to refine it.

From the optics perspective, it would probably be bad, but from the development perspective, it might be better. Failing faster and often is usually the best way to do these things, and more importantly, if there's no new NDA, then every little thing that is wrong will be 'out there' in someone's video.

It's probably less damaging, (if it even comes to this) to have a test where Freeholds are partially working, for example, or working almost completely but with minor bugs the community can find, and nothing else, then no other things active. Sure, there would be lots of videos about 'is Intrepid on track?!' but drip feeding information in this way is still good for certain types of hype. I wouldn't be surprised if they have already started to think about 'an order to do this in, if they have to'. The features themselves practically roadmap it, since some are isolated, some will attract too much attention, some are more time consuming to test, than others, and so on.

My experience is limited to websites, data analytics systems, and card games, though, so I don't figure my advice on timelines is going to matter to people who have been in the industry at the 'actual game development pipeline' level. I'm speaking solely in terms of 'things that are relatively well defined across software development with the methodology they are using'.

I can't even imagine the stress I'd feel trying to 'release a fully fledged Alpha-2' at this point, with the massive gap between 'what Alpha-1 is' and 'what Alpha-2 claims it will be'.

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