Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » And catering to creeps by adding gross outfits brings in more than the average amount of weirdos, so obviously I don’t think it’s at all “good for the game” to add skimpy outfits. No. You don't think it's good for you. If the difference between skimpy outfits and no skimpy outfits is less content and less moderation staff, then I have to disagree with you. It's all about the money to me. I have lost too many games to low budgets to care anymore. If they did a Fortnite or Roblox cosmetics skin cross over campaign, and it put more money into the game, I would have to be for it. Even if I hate both of those franchises and don't want to see their aesthetics in Ashes.
Caeryl wrote: » And catering to creeps by adding gross outfits brings in more than the average amount of weirdos, so obviously I don’t think it’s at all “good for the game” to add skimpy outfits.
Dolyem wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » And catering to creeps by adding gross outfits brings in more than the average amount of weirdos, so obviously I don’t think it’s at all “good for the game” to add skimpy outfits. No. You don't think it's good for you. If the difference between skimpy outfits and no skimpy outfits is less content and less moderation staff, then I have to disagree with you. It's all about the money to me. I have lost too many games to low budgets to care anymore. If they did a Fortnite or Roblox cosmetics skin cross over campaign, and it put more money into the game, I would have to be for it. Even if I hate both of those franchises and don't want to see their aesthetics in Ashes. If a game would fail without skimpy outfits, then tbh it’s not good enough to succeed I dont believe he said it would fail without them, but simply succeed even more financially with them
Caeryl wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » And catering to creeps by adding gross outfits brings in more than the average amount of weirdos, so obviously I don’t think it’s at all “good for the game” to add skimpy outfits. No. You don't think it's good for you. If the difference between skimpy outfits and no skimpy outfits is less content and less moderation staff, then I have to disagree with you. It's all about the money to me. I have lost too many games to low budgets to care anymore. If they did a Fortnite or Roblox cosmetics skin cross over campaign, and it put more money into the game, I would have to be for it. Even if I hate both of those franchises and don't want to see their aesthetics in Ashes. If a game would fail without skimpy outfits, then tbh it’s not good enough to succeed
I have lost too many games to low budgets to care anymore.
Caeryl wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. Have a real argument. Don't just try to point a finger at me for speaking the truth. Whatever you think people's motives are, don't matter. The end effect is that Intrepid gets paid more, and we get a better game. No you really don’t get a better game by adding a bunch of creepy sexist designs, it just attracts creeps
Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. Have a real argument. Don't just try to point a finger at me for speaking the truth. Whatever you think people's motives are, don't matter. The end effect is that Intrepid gets paid more, and we get a better game.
Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄
Caeryl wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » And catering to creeps by adding gross outfits brings in more than the average amount of weirdos, so obviously I don’t think it’s at all “good for the game” to add skimpy outfits. No. You don't think it's good for you. If the difference between skimpy outfits and no skimpy outfits is less content and less moderation staff, then I have to disagree with you. It's all about the money to me. I have lost too many games to low budgets to care anymore. If they did a Fortnite or Roblox cosmetics skin cross over campaign, and it put more money into the game, I would have to be for it. Even if I hate both of those franchises and don't want to see their aesthetics in Ashes. If a game would fail without skimpy outfits, then tbh it’s not good enough to succeed I dont believe he said it would fail without them, but simply succeed even more financially with them I have lost too many games to low budgets to care anymore. ^ That heavily implies the games failed
SirChancelot11 wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. Have a real argument. Don't just try to point a finger at me for speaking the truth. Whatever you think people's motives are, don't matter. The end effect is that Intrepid gets paid more, and we get a better game. No you really don’t get a better game by adding a bunch of creepy sexist designs, it just attracts creeps I'm sorry but adding options (if both male and female) doesn't make it sexist... Just like in real life, give people the freedom to choose... As far as SJW is concerned think of WoW recently. Their whole replacing a painting with cleavage with fruits, everyone thought it was dumb. Then they added an incubus model option INSTEAD of getting rid of the skanky succubus. That's the better way of dealing with it, having equal options, not just glossing over it to remove the flavor...
Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales.
JustVine wrote: » Real question for you, and I ask you this knowing you are Ferengi and knowing that you know I'm not arguing against skin in the game. 'Money for what'? Their cosmetics will already sell with the current balanced approach. The game fully funded. What do you want that is worth making a subsection of possible fans uncomfortable?
It's not like a more balanced approach is going to stifle creativity nor be outright prudish. I am all for a business making money and profit. Especially ones I like. But 'keep chipping away at that balance until its all generically 'slut mog' to make more sales' sounds like the opposite of vain to me.
Okeydoke wrote: » I think female characters should have options to look "cute." But cute is subjective so it's up to the devs.
Nerror wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. What "sex sells" usually means in the vast, vast majority of games (and outside of games) is the hypersexualisation/objectification of young women's bodies. The males get the power fantasy treatment, not the sexualization treatment. Most guys I've talked to about it don't know the difference at first. I have never seen an MMORPG featuring hypersexualization where the male characters are even remotely sexualized to the extent the female ones are. It's not just outfits showing skin, it's animations, emotes and poses too. Now, I have certainly not played all MMORPGs out there, and I am sure there might be some featuring sexualized male outfits/poses. Maybe some of the women here have seen an MMORPG where it's somewhat equal? Anyone familiar with the Hawkeye Initiative? It's a satirical site that showcases the often ridiculous, but also extremely ubiquitous hypersexualization of women in comics. Much of it applies to games and other media as well though. It's been so normalized that most people probably don't even see it for what it is. There is a wiki page as well. To get get back on topic, this game doesn't need sex to sell it. In fact, I would argue it cheapens the whole thing if they add too many sexy outfits/poses, to the detriment of the game overall. And whatever they do decide to add, I hope they make sure to make it equal.
Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. What "sex sells" usually means in the vast, vast majority of games (and outside of games) is the hypersexualisation/objectification of young women's bodies. The males get the power fantasy treatment, not the sexualization treatment. Most guys I've talked to about it don't know the difference at first. I have never seen an MMORPG featuring hypersexualization where the male characters are even remotely sexualized to the extent the female ones are. It's not just outfits showing skin, it's animations, emotes and poses too. Now, I have certainly not played all MMORPGs out there, and I am sure there might be some featuring sexualized male outfits/poses. Maybe some of the women here have seen an MMORPG where it's somewhat equal? Anyone familiar with the Hawkeye Initiative? It's a satirical site that showcases the often ridiculous, but also extremely ubiquitous hypersexualization of women in comics. Much of it applies to games and other media as well though. It's been so normalized that most people probably don't even see it for what it is. There is a wiki page as well. To get get back on topic, this game doesn't need sex to sell it. In fact, I would argue it cheapens the whole thing if they add too many sexy outfits/poses, to the detriment of the game overall. And whatever they do decide to add, I hope they make sure to make it equal. I cant even just count on both of my hands how many women I know who have played witcher who have told me how much they loveeeee this scene. Sex sells all around my friend, male or female.
Nerror wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. What "sex sells" usually means in the vast, vast majority of games (and outside of games) is the hypersexualisation/objectification of young women's bodies. The males get the power fantasy treatment, not the sexualization treatment. Most guys I've talked to about it don't know the difference at first. I have never seen an MMORPG featuring hypersexualization where the male characters are even remotely sexualized to the extent the female ones are. It's not just outfits showing skin, it's animations, emotes and poses too. Now, I have certainly not played all MMORPGs out there, and I am sure there might be some featuring sexualized male outfits/poses. Maybe some of the women here have seen an MMORPG where it's somewhat equal? Anyone familiar with the Hawkeye Initiative? It's a satirical site that showcases the often ridiculous, but also extremely ubiquitous hypersexualization of women in comics. Much of it applies to games and other media as well though. It's been so normalized that most people probably don't even see it for what it is. There is a wiki page as well. To get get back on topic, this game doesn't need sex to sell it. In fact, I would argue it cheapens the whole thing if they add too many sexy outfits/poses, to the detriment of the game overall. And whatever they do decide to add, I hope they make sure to make it equal. I cant even just count on both of my hands how many women I know who have played witcher who have told me how much they loveeeee this scene. Sex sells all around my friend, male or female. Of course it does. It kind of proves my point too. My point is that scenes like the above are pretty friggin' rare. And going with the witcher, how many scenes of scantily clad/nude women aren't there compared to those with Geralt or men in general? It's a lot more. It's not equal in that game either.
Nerror wrote: » Or in other words, yeah "sex sells", but the implementation in the vast majority of games is heavily on the side of sexualization of young women.
Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. What "sex sells" usually means in the vast, vast majority of games (and outside of games) is the hypersexualisation/objectification of young women's bodies. The males get the power fantasy treatment, not the sexualization treatment. Most guys I've talked to about it don't know the difference at first. I have never seen an MMORPG featuring hypersexualization where the male characters are even remotely sexualized to the extent the female ones are. It's not just outfits showing skin, it's animations, emotes and poses too. Now, I have certainly not played all MMORPGs out there, and I am sure there might be some featuring sexualized male outfits/poses. Maybe some of the women here have seen an MMORPG where it's somewhat equal? Anyone familiar with the Hawkeye Initiative? It's a satirical site that showcases the often ridiculous, but also extremely ubiquitous hypersexualization of women in comics. Much of it applies to games and other media as well though. It's been so normalized that most people probably don't even see it for what it is. There is a wiki page as well. To get get back on topic, this game doesn't need sex to sell it. In fact, I would argue it cheapens the whole thing if they add too many sexy outfits/poses, to the detriment of the game overall. And whatever they do decide to add, I hope they make sure to make it equal. I cant even just count on both of my hands how many women I know who have played witcher who have told me how much they loveeeee this scene. Sex sells all around my friend, male or female. Of course it does. It kind of proves my point too. My point is that scenes like the above are pretty friggin' rare. And going with the witcher, how many scenes of scantily clad/nude women aren't there compared to those with Geralt or men in general? It's a lot more. It's not equal in that game either. I think that mostly goes along with the fact that male players are much more common than female. That being said I I still don't see the problem. Hell if there was a game with nothing but dong accentuating outfits for rugged men to appeal to women, thats just as ok to me as that hypersexualized anime bullcrap thats out there. What it really comes down to is the goal of the developers. As I said earlier, if it fits the world that is being built, then do it. If it doesnt fit, don't include it.
Caeryl wrote: » ^ That heavily implies the games failed
Overthrow wrote: » Of the two mutually exclusive groups: A ) Players who would quit Ashes because they don't like 'slutmogs' in the game; or B ) Players who would quit Ashes because they can't wear 'slutmogs' in the game, I'd rather have Group A in my guild and server. Group B is weird.
Nerror wrote: » I would argue it's not that there are fewer women playing games but that there are more male developers than female developers, and a whole lot of those developers were raised on the comic book style of drawing their characters. I saw an article or video a long time ago about it. It was a book that almost everyone who learned to do art in those circles had learned from at some point. I think it might have been this one: https://ratcreature.livejournal.com/175099.html Or one similar at least. I agree with the last part though I just don't think hypersexualization fits the theme of the game at all.
