Explain to me how this game isn’t ruined by cosmetic MTX.

Atama wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

There will still be looks that are only able to be obtained in game - and those specific looks will be the ones with flexibility to make it exactly how you want it. Cash shop cosmetics are all or nothing.

Costumes are, but you can buy clothing pieces in the shop too. I own a couple pairs of boots, a couple cloaks, a hat, a belt, a couple pairs of gloves.

Perhaps I should have clarified a bit better, rather than just saying cash "shop cosmetics", perhaps I should have said "full body cash shop cosmetics".

The bulk of the complaints are about full costumes, whether people making those complaints realize this or not.

As far as I am aware, you can not decorate a character fully using cash shop items without using a full body cosmetic. If you opt to use individual items on the store, you are still required to then use some items found in game.

However, what I was referring to was the attachment system - a system that as far as I can see will only be made available to actual individual items.

It is a system that many people have completely overlooked. I would wager most of the people complaining about cosmetics don't even know about it..

Gankez wrote: »

im not sure where you got that info but youre wrong..

No I'm not, you just don't have the base level information to know what I am talking about.

Vhaeyne

@Noaani

You are 100% correct. I wish more people understood this. I keep trying to explain that the value of cash shop cosmetics is already lower than in game items because they can't be mixed per part or dyed. It really is all or nothing.

If you are someone who is into Transmog or Glam then this sort of thing is useless to you. The only exceptions I have seen are a few cosmetics that say they are a specific slot. There were some helms I have seen, and I think a belt that comes to mind.

Noaani wrote: »

Perhaps I should have clarified a bit better, rather than just saying cash "shop cosmetics", perhaps I should have said "full body cash shop cosmetics".

The bulk of the complaints are about full costumes, whether people making those complaints realize this or not.

As far as I am aware, you can not decorate a character fully using cash shop items without using a full body cosmetic. If you opt to use individual items on the store, you are still required to then use some items found in game.

You are correct. All of the cosmetics that are gear pieces (not full body) have to be applied to stuff you earn in game. Similar to mount skins; you need to get a mount first before you can use one.

The full body costumes are absolutely all-or-nothing.

Atama wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Perhaps I should have clarified a bit better, rather than just saying cash "shop cosmetics", perhaps I should have said "full body cash shop cosmetics".

The bulk of the complaints are about full costumes, whether people making those complaints realize this or not.

As far as I am aware, you can not decorate a character fully using cash shop items without using a full body cosmetic. If you opt to use individual items on the store, you are still required to then use some items found in game.

You are correct. All of the cosmetics that are gear pieces (not full body) have to be applied to stuff you earn in game. Similar to mount skins; you need to get a mount first before you can use one.

The full body costumes are absolutely all-or-nothing.

Are there any leg or chest slot cosmetic items that you are aware of?

Noaani wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

There will still be looks that are only able to be obtained in game - and those specific looks will be the ones with flexibility to make it exactly how you want it. Cash shop cosmetics are all or nothing.

Costumes are, but you can buy clothing pieces in the shop too. I own a couple pairs of boots, a couple cloaks, a hat, a belt, a couple pairs of gloves.

Perhaps I should have clarified a bit better, rather than just saying cash "shop cosmetics", perhaps I should have said "full body cash shop cosmetics".

The bulk of the complaints are about full costumes, whether people making those complaints realize this or not.

As far as I am aware, you can not decorate a character fully using cash shop items without using a full body cosmetic. If you opt to use individual items on the store, you are still required to then use some items found in game.

However, what I was referring to was the attachment system - a system that as far as I can see will only be made available to actual individual items.

It is a system that many people have completely overlooked. I would wager most of the people complaining about cosmetics don't even know about it..

Gankez wrote: »

im not sure where you got that info but youre wrong..

No I'm not, you just don't have the base level information to know what I am talking about.

I know full and well that tbe armor cosmetics are costum, I continue to say cosmetics because I'm also referring to the mounts, pets, Accessory, boat skins, and more.

What I'm trying to say is that the cash shop will have items that look cool and interesting to make people buy them. It doesn't matter of you can combine and customize individual gear pieces, costumes that are made to look better

If everyone looks cool and interesting, no one looks cool and interesting.

rikardp98 wrote: »

If everyone looks cool and interesting, no one looks cool and interesting.

I hope you know how stupid this sounds.

If everyone looks cool and interesting, everyone looks cool and interesting.

If you can only judge your own worth (in this case, how cool and/or interesting your character looks) based on how it compares to those around you, then this is straight up a you problem.

Noaani wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

If everyone looks cool and interesting, no one looks cool and interesting.

I hope you know how stupid this sounds.

If everyone looks cool and interesting, everyone looks cool and interesting.

If you can only judge your own worth (in this case, how cool and/or interesting your character looks) based on how it compares to those around you, then this is straight up a you problem.

Most end-game "worth" is based on how you are compared to others. PvP, high end PvE, economics, professions. Yes it's not everything but it's a big part of end game in most games. And for some people fashion is a part of the end games when it comes to fantasy games like ashes (and do not say that ashes isn't about fashion, because why are they selling cosmetics items then?).

rikardp98 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

If everyone looks cool and interesting, no one looks cool and interesting.

I hope you know how stupid this sounds.

If everyone looks cool and interesting, everyone looks cool and interesting.

If you can only judge your own worth (in this case, how cool and/or interesting your character looks) based on how it compares to those around you, then this is straight up a you problem.

Most end-game "worth" is based on how you are compared to others. PvP, high end PvE, economics, professions.

With the obvious exception of PvP, this is objectively untrue.

In top end PvP (where most of my almost 20 years playing MMO's has been), people that compare themselves to others are of little value. Guilds that compare themselves to others are never worth being in. Even measuring DPS is only of any value if you are only measuring it against yourself - doing more today than you did yesterday. Measuring your raids DPS to do more today than you did yesterday.

The only comparison in PvE that is worth making is the guild vs the target.

Professions are a similar thing. I don't care what you can do, what you can make. I care what I can make, and perhaps more importantly, what I can not yet make and what I need to do to be able to make it.

Economics are the same. Not only do I not care how much coin you are making, but I don't even have an objective means to tell.

What difference does it make to me what you are able to make, or how much money you are making? All I need to know is if I am happy with what I am doing or not.

There are serious issues in anyone that compares them self to others to determine their worth. This is the kind of thinking that causes problems.

Make your character look what you consider to be good, and don't worry yourself with how others look - the very notion of doing anything other than this baffles me.

Let's say that you can buy an item on the cash shop that will make it so you do a fixed amount of dps. Some people may not buy the item and do less dps, and some might do a little bit more with an advanced and difficult rotation that takes a lot of time to perfect. Now that will do that the majority of people will not take a second look at each others rotation or gear, they won't care about others or their own improvement since they do the same amount of dps as everyone else. This will devalue spending time and effort of learning the advanced and difficult rotation to make a small improvement, or none, in dps.

If everyone does high dps then no one will do high DPS since high is based on the average amount of dps an average player does, which in this case will be equal (or close to) because of the item.

It's a weird comparison but the same principle can be applied to looks in games.

rikardp98 wrote: »

Let's say that you can buy an item on the cash shop that will make it so you do a fixed amount of dps.

Because this is a thing I care about, I stop playing the game.

Problem solved.

rikardp98 wrote: »

If everyone looks cool and interesting, no one looks cool and interesting.

The people who look cool and interesting will have legendary cosmetics, which is a class of cosmetic you can only earn in-game.

Noaani wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

Let's say that you can buy an item on the cash shop that will make it so you do a fixed amount of dps.

Because this is a thing I care about, I stop playing the game.

Problem solved.

If you liked the game and thought it was interesting and seems fun, would you argue about this item to make it go away? I mean the game isn't released yet so it may be an option?

Noaani wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Perhaps I should have clarified a bit better, rather than just saying cash "shop cosmetics", perhaps I should have said "full body cash shop cosmetics".

The bulk of the complaints are about full costumes, whether people making those complaints realize this or not.

As far as I am aware, you can not decorate a character fully using cash shop items without using a full body cosmetic. If you opt to use individual items on the store, you are still required to then use some items found in game.

You are correct. All of the cosmetics that are gear pieces (not full body) have to be applied to stuff you earn in game. Similar to mount skins; you need to get a mount first before you can use one.

The full body costumes are absolutely all-or-nothing.

Are there any leg or chest slot cosmetic items that you are aware of?

I don’t own any and I don’t remember seeing them, but it has been years so I might have missed something or forgotten.

I also haven’t seen any weapon skins in the store, but I believe it was possible to earn something during APOC? (I don’t remember and I hated that test so much I didn’t try to earn any of the cosmetics so I wasn’t paying attention.)

It’s also probably worth reminding people that even the full body costumes don’t have weapon skins. Even when the concept art shows a weapon, it doesn’t actually come with it.

rikardp98 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

Let's say that you can buy an item on the cash shop that will make it so you do a fixed amount of dps.

Because this is a thing I care about, I stop playing the game.

Problem solved.

If you liked the game and thought it was interesting and seems fun, would you argue about this item to make it go away? I mean the game isn't released yet so it may be an option?

I quit the best MMO I have ever played because they added a cash shop with pay to win aspects to it.

If you don't stand up for what you believe in, what is left of you as a person?

Atama wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Perhaps I should have clarified a bit better, rather than just saying cash "shop cosmetics", perhaps I should have said "full body cash shop cosmetics".

The bulk of the complaints are about full costumes, whether people making those complaints realize this or not.

As far as I am aware, you can not decorate a character fully using cash shop items without using a full body cosmetic. If you opt to use individual items on the store, you are still required to then use some items found in game.

You are correct. All of the cosmetics that are gear pieces (not full body) have to be applied to stuff you earn in game. Similar to mount skins; you need to get a mount first before you can use one.

The full body costumes are absolutely all-or-nothing.

Are there any leg or chest slot cosmetic items that you are aware of?

I don’t own any and I don’t remember seeing them, but it has been years so I might have missed something or forgotten.

I also haven’t seen any weapon skins in the store, but I believe it was possible to earn something during APOC? (I don’t remember and I hated that test so much I didn’t try to earn any of the cosmetics so I wasn’t paying attention.)

It’s also probably worth reminding people that even the full body costumes don’t have weapon skins. Even when the concept art shows a weapon, it doesn’t actually come with it.

Cool, so, even if you are using all cash shop items other than full costumes, at this stage you still need to take items from in game.

Players that do actually care about their appearance are likely not going to be caught dead in a full costume. These are the easy way out for people like me that really just don't care - find something acceptable, put it on and forget about appearance for a few years.

People that do care are likely to go for individual items. Some of these may well be from the store, but many will be obtained in game. Add to this the customization from dye and attachments (which what little we know of seem to all be in game only), and for those people that do care, there is a whole world of customization.

Noaani wrote: »

Cool, so, even if you are using all cash shop items other than full costumes, at this stage you still need to take items from in game.

Players that do actually care about their appearance are likely not going to be caught dead in a full costume. These are the easy way out for people like me that really just don't care - find something acceptable, put it on and forget about appearance for a few years.

People that do care are likely to go for individual items. Some of these may well be from the store, but many will be obtained in game. Add to this the customization from dye and attachments (which what little we know of seem to all be in game only), and for those people that do care, there is a whole world of customization.

Absolutely. Looking at what I have so far, I think I have a cloak, boots, belt, and gloves that have cool effects and should mix well together. My shirt/pants will have to be something in-game but I’ll figure that out.

I own a ton of full costumes (including a bunch of the Kickstarter costumes, I have a lot of them too) but none of them will be something I’d wear all the time. I like the idea of putting my own outfit together for a theme that should be somewhat unique, especially since I’ll have items that won’t be available again.

And yes, I’m curious to get into dyes. I know only certain parts of cosmetics will be “tagged” to accept dyes so you can’t count on fully changing all the colors.

But yes, I’ll be pursuing a particular look. And no, I don’t think it’ll be possible to do it purely via the cash shop, at least not from what we’ve had so far. It’s going to require finding and earning stuff through play, and that’s also fun.

Noaani wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

Let's say that you can buy an item on the cash shop that will make it so you do a fixed amount of dps.

Because this is a thing I care about, I stop playing the game.

Problem solved.

If you liked the game and thought it was interesting and seems fun, would you argue about this item to make it go away? I mean the game isn't released yet so it may be an option?

I quit the best MMO I have ever played because they added a cash shop with pay to win aspects to it.

If you don't stand up for what you believe in, what is left of you as a person?

That very true, you should stand up for what you believe in! Yes!

But we are talking about a game that is not released yet and won't be for another 2 years or so. Meaning that their payment model (sorry can't remember what's called) can change. Yes, the monthly or so cosmetic release won't change but that doesn't mean that they need it once the game is fully released, if they change to a box fee + sub fee.
To be frank, i had totally missed that ashes was going to be a sub fee only game (with a cash shop). I just assumed that I would need to buy it (like most games) and then pay the sub fee.

rikardp98 wrote: »

But we are talking about a game that is not released yet and won't be for another 2 years or so. Meaning that their payment model (sorry can't remember what's called) can change.

No it can't.

The payment model is one of the core aspects that this game is built on.

If Intrepid change that now, it will generate so much bad will within the community that it will straight up cause the game to fail

Even people that want the model to change should not be wanting Intrepid to go back on one of the core aspects of what they have sold us the game based on.

I mean, I would really like (or at least, would have in the past) to get a lifetime subscription. However, Intrepid said that it is a kickstarter only reward. As such, even though I want/wanted one, I would not want Intrepid to offer me one, as them sticking to their word is far more important.

It is very similar to the above. You should stand up for what you believe in. Part of that is that when you say a thing, you stick to it.

Intrepid have said there will be no box cost, a subscription and a cosmetic only cash shop. Anyone that wants the game to succeed should be demanding Intrepid stick to that because it is what Intrepid have said, even if that is not what they personally want.

I mean, if Intrepid go back on this now, why should we trust them with anything they have said? Without trust, what do Intrepid have right now?