Vhaeyne wrote: » Has anyone said: "I would quit Ashes if they had no slutmogs."? or anything like that? I don't think I have seen that one yet. In fact, I have not seen A or B.
Overthrow wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Has anyone said: "I would quit Ashes if they had no slutmogs."? or anything like that? I don't think I have seen that one yet. In fact, I have not seen A or B. The point is the regarding what type of player community Intrepid Studios would strive for-- which has been discussed previously in this thread.
Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » I would argue it's not that there are fewer women playing games but that there are more male developers than female developers, and a whole lot of those developers were raised on the comic book style of drawing their characters. I saw an article or video a long time ago about it. It was a book that almost everyone who learned to do art in those circles had learned from at some point. I think it might have been this one: https://ratcreature.livejournal.com/175099.html Or one similar at least. I agree with the last part though I just don't think hypersexualization fits the theme of the game at all. As far as the comic book thing goes, I can't ever follow along with the "Oversexualized/unachievable" argument to design of characters in comics. Theyre meant to be unachievable and as a result desirable. The idea of the "realistic/everyday average looing" heroes is just narcissist's self inserting themselves as their own characters usually. Super is Super... not a typical or even optimal human being.
Nerror wrote: » I would argue it's not that there are fewer women playing games but that there are more male developers than female developers, and a whole lot of those developers were raised on the comic book style of drawing their characters. I saw an article or video a long time ago about it. It was a book that almost everyone who learned to do art in those circles had learned from at some point. I think it might have been this one: https://ratcreature.livejournal.com/175099.html Or one similar at least. I agree with the last part though I just don't think hypersexualization fits the theme of the game at all.
Vhaeyne wrote: » @Nerror You don't think Hypersexualization of males is that present in games or media? Khal Drogo would like a word. Every chance they get, they will show you a guy's chest if it's shredded. Sometimes the guy don't even have to be in that great of shape... look at twilight. XD How many action movies end with the guy being covered in sweat and their cloths shredded. There are plenty of armor sets in MMORPGs that show off dudes abs and glam muscles. Just because the guys are not posing like girls does not mean they are not sexualized.
Nerror wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » I would argue it's not that there are fewer women playing games but that there are more male developers than female developers, and a whole lot of those developers were raised on the comic book style of drawing their characters. I saw an article or video a long time ago about it. It was a book that almost everyone who learned to do art in those circles had learned from at some point. I think it might have been this one: https://ratcreature.livejournal.com/175099.html Or one similar at least. I agree with the last part though I just don't think hypersexualization fits the theme of the game at all. As far as the comic book thing goes, I can't ever follow along with the "Oversexualized/unachievable" argument to design of characters in comics. Theyre meant to be unachievable and as a result desirable. The idea of the "realistic/everyday average looing" heroes is just narcissist's self inserting themselves as their own characters usually. Super is Super... not a typical or even optimal human being. I might be misunderstanding what you mean here, and if so sorry. But super isn't just super in comic books. The male superheroes are not drawn in a sexual way. They are generally not sexy at all to women reading the comics. They are drawn to show big muscles and powerful poses.They don't have the full lips and eyes or facial expressions that the women are drawn with. The women are mostly drawn in sexualized poses with one purpose in mind: To show as much tits and ass as possible, to titillate all the teenage boys they believe will read the comics. Anyway, I'm getting somewhat off topic now
Vhaeyne wrote: » @Nerror You have me at a disadvantage here. I don't know what people who are attracted to men find sexy. I know I feel more sexy when I have abs. Other than that, I just know when a male looks healthy or not. I mean, I have had girls tell me Pinhead is attractive... which is just confusing.
Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » I would argue it's not that there are fewer women playing games but that there are more male developers than female developers, and a whole lot of those developers were raised on the comic book style of drawing their characters. I saw an article or video a long time ago about it. It was a book that almost everyone who learned to do art in those circles had learned from at some point. I think it might have been this one: https://ratcreature.livejournal.com/175099.html Or one similar at least. I agree with the last part though I just don't think hypersexualization fits the theme of the game at all. As far as the comic book thing goes, I can't ever follow along with the "Oversexualized/unachievable" argument to design of characters in comics. Theyre meant to be unachievable and as a result desirable. The idea of the "realistic/everyday average looing" heroes is just narcissist's self inserting themselves as their own characters usually. Super is Super... not a typical or even optimal human being. I might be misunderstanding what you mean here, and if so sorry. But super isn't just super in comic books. The male superheroes are not drawn in a sexual way. They are generally not sexy at all to women reading the comics. They are drawn to show big muscles and powerful poses.They don't have the full lips and eyes or facial expressions that the women are drawn with. The women are mostly drawn in sexualized poses with one purpose in mind: To show as much tits and ass as possible, to titillate all the teenage boys they believe will read the comics. Anyway, I'm getting somewhat off topic now I just asked a friend if she gets any sexy time vibes from any comics and she said, AND I QUOTE! "I want Gambit to -expletive- my -expletive- like he doesn't even care if I die." LMAO There are plenty of women (and even dudes) who are totally into the super muscular/powerful build of the typical comic book art. Nothing wrong with it. Both males and females in comics are unachievable in reality. As they are meant to be.
Atama wrote: » What are people arguing about? The game will have revealing outfits. People (myself included) posted pictures. How tasteful you consider them to be is a matter of opinion, but you’ll be able to show some skin.
Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. What "sex sells" usually means in the vast, vast majority of games (and outside of games) is the hypersexualisation/objectification of young women's bodies. The males get the power fantasy treatment, not the sexualization treatment. Most guys I've talked to about it don't know the difference at first. I have never seen an MMORPG featuring hypersexualization where the male characters are even remotely sexualized to the extent the female ones are. It's not just outfits showing skin, it's animations, emotes and poses too. Now, I have certainly not played all MMORPGs out there, and I am sure there might be some featuring sexualized male outfits/poses. Maybe some of the women here have seen an MMORPG where it's somewhat equal? Anyone familiar with the Hawkeye Initiative? It's a satirical site that showcases the often ridiculous, but also extremely ubiquitous hypersexualization of women in comics. Much of it applies to games and other media as well though. It's been so normalized that most people probably don't even see it for what it is. There is a wiki page as well. To get get back on topic, this game doesn't need sex to sell it. In fact, I would argue it cheapens the whole thing if they add too many sexy outfits/poses, to the detriment of the game overall. And whatever they do decide to add, I hope they make sure to make it equal. I cant even just count on both of my hands how many women I know who have played witcher who have told me how much they loveeeee this scene. Sex sells all around my friend, male or female. Of course it does. It kind of proves my point too. My point is that scenes like the above are pretty friggin' rare. And going with the witcher, how many scenes of scantily clad/nude women aren't there compared to those with Geralt or men in general? It's a lot more. It's not equal in that game either. I think that mostly goes along with the fact that male players are much more common than female. That being said I I still don't see the problem. Hell if there was a game with nothing but dong accentuating outfits for rugged men to appeal to women, thats just as ok to me as that hypersexualized anime bullcrap thats out there. What it really comes down to is the goal of the developers. As I said earlier, if it fits the world that is being built, then do it. If it doesnt fit, don't include it.
Nerror wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. What "sex sells" usually means in the vast, vast majority of games (and outside of games) is the hypersexualisation/objectification of young women's bodies. The males get the power fantasy treatment, not the sexualization treatment. Most guys I've talked to about it don't know the difference at first. I have never seen an MMORPG featuring hypersexualization where the male characters are even remotely sexualized to the extent the female ones are. It's not just outfits showing skin, it's animations, emotes and poses too. Now, I have certainly not played all MMORPGs out there, and I am sure there might be some featuring sexualized male outfits/poses. Maybe some of the women here have seen an MMORPG where it's somewhat equal? Anyone familiar with the Hawkeye Initiative? It's a satirical site that showcases the often ridiculous, but also extremely ubiquitous hypersexualization of women in comics. Much of it applies to games and other media as well though. It's been so normalized that most people probably don't even see it for what it is. There is a wiki page as well. To get get back on topic, this game doesn't need sex to sell it. In fact, I would argue it cheapens the whole thing if they add too many sexy outfits/poses, to the detriment of the game overall. And whatever they do decide to add, I hope they make sure to make it equal. I cant even just count on both of my hands how many women I know who have played witcher who have told me how much they loveeeee this scene. Sex sells all around my friend, male or female. Of course it does. It kind of proves my point too. My point is that scenes like the above are pretty friggin' rare. And going with the witcher, how many scenes of scantily clad/nude women aren't there compared to those with Geralt or men in general? It's a lot more. It's not equal in that game either.
Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. What "sex sells" usually means in the vast, vast majority of games (and outside of games) is the hypersexualisation/objectification of young women's bodies. The males get the power fantasy treatment, not the sexualization treatment. Most guys I've talked to about it don't know the difference at first. I have never seen an MMORPG featuring hypersexualization where the male characters are even remotely sexualized to the extent the female ones are. It's not just outfits showing skin, it's animations, emotes and poses too. Now, I have certainly not played all MMORPGs out there, and I am sure there might be some featuring sexualized male outfits/poses. Maybe some of the women here have seen an MMORPG where it's somewhat equal? Anyone familiar with the Hawkeye Initiative? It's a satirical site that showcases the often ridiculous, but also extremely ubiquitous hypersexualization of women in comics. Much of it applies to games and other media as well though. It's been so normalized that most people probably don't even see it for what it is. There is a wiki page as well. To get get back on topic, this game doesn't need sex to sell it. In fact, I would argue it cheapens the whole thing if they add too many sexy outfits/poses, to the detriment of the game overall. And whatever they do decide to add, I hope they make sure to make it equal. I cant even just count on both of my hands how many women I know who have played witcher who have told me how much they loveeeee this scene. Sex sells all around my friend, male or female.
Nerror wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. What "sex sells" usually means in the vast, vast majority of games (and outside of games) is the hypersexualisation/objectification of young women's bodies. The males get the power fantasy treatment, not the sexualization treatment. Most guys I've talked to about it don't know the difference at first. I have never seen an MMORPG featuring hypersexualization where the male characters are even remotely sexualized to the extent the female ones are. It's not just outfits showing skin, it's animations, emotes and poses too. Now, I have certainly not played all MMORPGs out there, and I am sure there might be some featuring sexualized male outfits/poses. Maybe some of the women here have seen an MMORPG where it's somewhat equal? Anyone familiar with the Hawkeye Initiative? It's a satirical site that showcases the often ridiculous, but also extremely ubiquitous hypersexualization of women in comics. Much of it applies to games and other media as well though. It's been so normalized that most people probably don't even see it for what it is. There is a wiki page as well. To get get back on topic, this game doesn't need sex to sell it. In fact, I would argue it cheapens the whole thing if they add too many sexy outfits/poses, to the detriment of the game overall. And whatever they do decide to add, I hope they make sure to make it equal.
Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales.
Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄
Vhaeyne wrote: » I just realized that I missed out on all the cool cosmetics...
Selo wrote: » Like Vhaeyne said games with "sexier" and more revealing outfits are more popular among women. Bikinis, sunglasses, sunhats, surfingboards, high heels etc are to much though.
Sathrago wrote: » Selo wrote: » Like Vhaeyne said games with "sexier" and more revealing outfits are more popular among women. Bikinis, sunglasses, sunhats, surfingboards, high heels etc are to much though. Are they though? from what we have established already there will be cosmetics like the nikua that wear grass skirts into battle. Perhaps we are being too one-track with the discussion. What if there were casual glamours you could apply to yourself while inside of towns, apartments, and in the area of freeholds? Basically a buff that is removed if you leave the designated areas. This would allow players to create casual wear for themselves that could be more, lets say modern or revealing, while keeping it separate from the open world. As for what would be chosen as "casual clothing" That would be up to the design team and loremasters to decide what fits the world.
Sathrago wrote: » Are they though? from what we have established already there will be cosmetics like the nikua that wear grass skirts into battle. Perhaps we are being too one-track with the discussion. What if there were casual glamours you could apply to yourself while inside of towns, apartments, and in the area of freeholds? Basically a buff that is removed if you leave the designated areas. This would allow players to create casual wear for themselves that could be more, lets say modern or revealing, while keeping it separate from the open world. As for what would be chosen as "casual clothing" That would be up to the design team and loremasters to decide what fits the world.
Karthos wrote: » You guys have heard of "Porn" right?
JustVine wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Nerror wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » “A little more skin” is just asking for more visible boob and legs on pixel women, let’s not pretend this is about the health of game 🙄 We all know sex sales. What "sex sells" usually means in the vast, vast majority of games (and outside of games) is the hypersexualisation/objectification of young women's bodies. The males get the power fantasy treatment, not the sexualization treatment. Most guys I've talked to about it don't know the difference at first. I have never seen an MMORPG featuring hypersexualization where the male characters are even remotely sexualized to the extent the female ones are. It's not just outfits showing skin, it's animations, emotes and poses too. Now, I have certainly not played all MMORPGs out there, and I am sure there might be some featuring sexualized male outfits/poses. Maybe some of the women here have seen an MMORPG where it's somewhat equal? Anyone familiar with the Hawkeye Initiative? It's a satirical site that showcases the often ridiculous, but also extremely ubiquitous hypersexualization of women in comics. Much of it applies to games and other media as well though. It's been so normalized that most people probably don't even see it for what it is. There is a wiki page as well. To get get back on topic, this game doesn't need sex to sell it. In fact, I would argue it cheapens the whole thing if they add too many sexy outfits/poses, to the detriment of the game overall. And whatever they do decide to add, I hope they make sure to make it equal. I cant even just count on both of my hands how many women I know who have played witcher who have told me how much they loveeeee this scene. Sex sells all around my friend, male or female. Of course it does. It kind of proves my point too. My point is that scenes like the above are pretty friggin' rare. And going with the witcher, how many scenes of scantily clad/nude women aren't there compared to those with Geralt or men in general? It's a lot more. It's not equal in that game either. I think that mostly goes along with the fact that male players are much more common than female. That being said I I still don't see the problem. Hell if there was a game with nothing but dong accentuating outfits for rugged men to appeal to women, thats just as ok to me as that hypersexualized anime bullcrap thats out there. What it really comes down to is the goal of the developers. As I said earlier, if it fits the world that is being built, then do it. If it doesnt fit, don't include it. What kind of old ass foggy believes this load of horse apples still?https://ukiepedia.ukie.org.uk/index.php/Player_Diversity_&_Demographicshttps://www.statista.com/statistics/232383/gender-split-of-us-computer-and-video-gamers/ Women make up at least 45% of the market. This old ass 'not that common' bullocks has been dead since the early 2000's. I would hardly call 40-45% of your player base 'much less common'. We are not as noticeable because we learn to keep our heads down around player bases with largely misogynistic behavior.
