Explain to me how this game isn’t ruined by cosmetic MTX.

Someone needs to try their best and explain to me how this game isn’t already ruined by the introduction of LOADS of cosmetic MTX. The entire purpose of playing an MMO is the progression of your character both in terms of skill and power and also their armor and how they look. Please explain to me how buying the ability to look cool doesn’t change the fundamental gameplay and incentive of playing this game? I would LOVE to pay a box cost and sub to never have a single MTX in the game. WoW was the most popular and successful mmo of all time for over a decade without ever having cosmetic MTX. Now they do but explain to me why this game needs to have a sub and cosmetic MTX. It completely ruins the game for me. There is zero incentive for me to play a game where I know you can just buy the ability to look good and there is zero prestige or work associated with looking good. Don’t give me the reasons why you claim they need MTX to develop the game. That’s BS. The sub fee more than pays for the game and the continued development. If they had box price the preorders would pay for the initial development and the launch and expansions and sub would make ridiculous money. All without ruining the core gameplay loop. Instead I now consider this to be on the same tier as Fortnite, BDO, and basically any other sort of low tier lowest common denominator slop in the gaming feeding trough. Cosmetic MTX ruin video games ESPECIALLY MMOs. Not to mention it entices the devs to make the best looking things as purchasable so you spend money meanwhile your character in game will find one or two armor visuals the entire leveling experience because they’ve all been locked behind a paywall. You can claim “oh no no Steve said there will be tons of visual diversity in game not just through the cash shop!” To which I would say BS, this game is doing what every single other game does. The devs decry pay to win MTX and say “this game will never be pay to win!” And you all gobble it up meanwhile they are bending you over backwards with cosmetic MTX which affect gameplay just as much as pay to win.

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Vhaeyne

@rikardp98

You don't have to take Noaani's word for it.

Because we are a non-box purchase game, meaning there is no box price to play Ashes of Creation, it is only a subscription; and that's beneficial because it reduces the barrier of entry and we want a high population obviously; but at the same time one of the ways we augment the revenue flows to sustain constant updates and new chapter releases and additional content within the game is through a cosmetic-only marketplace; and that means absolutely no pay-to-win whatsoever; and that will be adhered to forever.[15] – Steven Sharif

Also check out this page on the Wiki where I found that quote:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Payment_model

It's always a personal decision on if cosmetic MTX ruins the game for you. The rules Intrepid has made for themselves with their cash shop seem fair enough to me, so long as they stick to them.

rikardp98

Vhaeyne wrote: »

@rikardp98

You don't have to take Noaani's word for it.

Because we are a non-box purchase game, meaning there is no box price to play Ashes of Creation, it is only a subscription; and that's beneficial because it reduces the barrier of entry and we want a high population obviously; but at the same time one of the ways we augment the revenue flows to sustain constant updates and new chapter releases and additional content within the game is through a cosmetic-only marketplace; and that means absolutely no pay-to-win whatsoever; and that will be adhered to forever.[15] – Steven Sharif

Also check out this page on the Wiki where I found that quote:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Payment_model

It's always a personal decision on if cosmetic MTX ruins the game for you. The rules Intrepid has made for themselves with their cash shop seem fair enough to me, so long as they stick to them.

Thanks for the links! Will read up on it a little bit more so I get a better understanding.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

You don't have to take Noaani's word for it.

I actually strongly advise against doing this.

Karthos

This is such a subjective topic, we could ask 100 people at what level MTX ruins a game, and get 100 different answers.

Some people will say "any MTX ruins a game", while others will say "MTX doesn't ruin a game", then there's the entire spectrum in the middle, ranging from "cosmetic only doesn't ruin the game" to "even cosmetics only ruins the game".

What you need to answer this is to just break this question down even further, and personalize it.

"Does this MTX ruin the game for me?"

And only you can answer that for yourself.

Samson1

Karthos wrote: »

This is such a subjective topic, we could ask 100 people at what level MTX ruins a game, and get 100 different answers.

Some people will say "any MTX ruins a game", while others will say "MTX doesn't ruin a game", then there's the entire spectrum in the middle, ranging from "cosmetic only doesn't ruin the game" to "even cosmetics only ruins the game".

What you need to answer this is to just break this question down even further, and personalize it.

"Does this MTX ruin the game for me?"

And only you can answer that for yourself.

TrUSivraj

Atama wrote: »

Conrad wrote: »

Well, tbh, Steven claiming the ingame earnable cosmetics / gear appearance will rival the shop cosmetics sounds pretty far fetched tbh. There's a few things I can believe but that aspect sounds like it got sucked out of a thumb

It's not at all far-fetched, but it's also (potentially) meaningless. As I've pointed out in any of these discussions I've participated in, it's impossible to qualify the value of a cosmetic appearance.

For example, I think this is hideous:

And I think this is awesome (and I bought it):

Someone else might think the opposite; that the first item is fabulous and the second one is plain. So how can you say that one "rivals" the other?

The only way that I can see that Steven's promise is objectively fulfilled, is if cosmetics earned in-game are extremely similar to what you get in the shop. For example, imagine that you can earn that first set, except it has more of an autumn (orange, red, brown) color scheme. Clearly it is not the same, but it could be considered equivalent.

Stacking on this statement, they could very well easily give earnable cosmetics (and they surely will) more animations and effects than that of the cash shop items. That ocean cape looks to clearly have some water and wave effects on it, but if they were to make something similar in game, they could then add fish swimming inside the cape periodically, or even add more sound effects from movement that the cash shop version didn't have.

There is honestly so much they are capable of doing to separate *high-end* earnable sets from cash shop sets if people had a greater imagination. Higher quality animation/effects are the biggest thing that come to mind, but again I dislike both those costumes, yet I love the Vine vestment, which some people I know think is the ugliest piece of trash, but they also don't RP characters of nature like I often do.

I also rarely see great naturistic armor like this in games that feels natural for a "Native Americanesque" ranger to wear. (wow's naturistic gear was always huge and bulky, and hunters couldn't wear it anyways lol)

Noaani

TrUSivraj wrote: »

There is honestly so much they are capable of doing to separate *high-end* earnable sets from cash shop sets if people had a greater imagination.

Indeed there is.

The thing to keep in mind though, is that it is a balancing act for Intrepid.

They want there to be looks that are able to be obtained on game that players will get excited about.

However, they also want to make money from the cash shop.

Every player in the game will have some situation where they do not like where Ashes has found the balance that works for them, but will likely also have times where they are happy with it.

Players need to expect this going in. It won't always go the way you want it to go, and that is OK.

JSJSCSV

As long as they keep it cosmetic only I really couldn't care less, honestly.

Boanergese

Are you telling me you wouldn't preorder now if you got a priest or nun outfit?

CROW3

Boanergese wrote: »

Are you telling me you wouldn't preorder now if you got a priest or nun outfit?

This could lead to bad habits. 😂

Atama

That’s a bunch of nunsense.

CROW3

I went to confession for absolution and got nun.

palabana

"Please explain to me how buying the ability to look cool doesn’t change the fundamental gameplay and incentive of playing this game?"

My answer is easy: then don't buy the cosmetics and collect the ones in game. What's the difference? They're paying to dress good. You're fighting and earned an amazing look. At the end of the day, both can enjoy looking good.

Don't give me that "but the ones I can't get are paywalled" BS because it doesn't matter. Get over it. You either want it or you don't.

We'll see how many sparkly lions you can see in a server at launch. My best guess is you're gonna see only a few of them. Everyone is spread out among different continents in different servers. The map is huge, don't forget that.

akabear

A large variety of visual diversity helps place your character as an individual in the world.

I do not recall well, but my first MMO, there were a very limited range of classes and gear for each class at top level, and no cash shop. Whilst the lack of visual diversity was great for pvp certainty, in hindsight it was quite ordinary.

Taste and expectations have moved on.

If an additional variety of cosmetics than that which is available in-game is available via a cash shop and the additional revenue from sales keep the subscription cost moderate and the gamer`s entertained and keeps it thriving then all for it!

Kiluvian

I agree with a lot of the concerns in this thread, and it also gives me worries for the launch of the game. One thing Steven had said that really made me facepalm was that he had the art team developing high fantasy from character creation rather than the good stuff coming out after it was earned. There is no character progression from ordinary to hero in this game, your character comes right out of the gate already a high fantasy hero. I have mixed feelings about that because I always speed through the leveling process to get to the end game, but I also enjoy that challenge and character progression.

In this game, how anyone looks will be completely irrelevant because everyone is going to have completely customized cosmetics that have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of equipment they're wearing. In my opinion, this just reinforces the need for investigation and observation skills that I already detailed in the Spies and Intrigue thread. With this kind of cosmetic MTX, being able to investigate someone's equipment is invaluable.

George_Black

Kiluvian wrote: »

I agree with a lot of the concerns in this thread, and it also gives me worries for the launch of the game. One thing Steven had said that really made me facepalm was that he had the art team developing high fantasy from character creation rather than the good stuff coming out after it was earned. There is no character progression from ordinary to hero in this game, your character comes right out of the gate already a high fantasy hero. I have mixed feelings about that because I always speed through the leveling process to get to the end game, but I also enjoy that challenge and character progression.

In this game, how anyone looks will be completely irrelevant because everyone is going to have completely customized cosmetics that have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of equipment they're wearing. In my opinion, this just reinforces the need for investigation and observation skills that I already detailed in the Spies and Intrigue thread. With this kind of cosmetic MTX, being able to investigate someone's equipment is invaluable.

Ye it sounded weird but in reality, having tested the A1, it boiled down to this: your characters dont look like a barefoot peasant. They wear a nice shirt, nice pants and boots. That's all. Dont overthink it.

Caww

At this point in the timeline of game play for the MMOxx genre, cosmetics are definitely considered as not pay-to-win but just an extra cash grab, whether needed or not. I'm fine with it and as many have said, don't buy if you don't like it or don't want to help out the game.

It may even be that it allows the game company to hire extra artist types who do much more than cash shop items.

emperorhades

MTX is not earned. Everyone will be able to distinguish between earned rewards and MTX. Other MMOs already have purchased MTX and none of it is taken seriously. If you like a particular armor or look, buy it by all means, support Intrepid. If not, then don't. Intrepid has already said this will not be pay to win. I believe them.

LightningMcweeen

Maybe an item that show real stuff or an option that hide cosmetic effect could be add, it will solve your request like true sight for assassin to see your real stuff before gank attack, or at the reverse an option than can hide or false your stats to suprise enemy. Im bad english but if you mean skin like bdo buff you in cash shop, i don't think they will do this you will pay a suscribe and they said no pay to win.

Ramirez

Djeff wrote: »

Maybe an item that show real stuff or an option that hide cosmetic effect could be add, it will solve your request like true sight for assassin to see your real stuff before gank attack, or at the reverse an option than can hide or false your stats to suprise enemy. Im bad english but if you mean skin like bdo buff you in cash shop, i don't think they will do this you will pay a suscribe and they said no pay to win.

Why not just an option in menu to hide all cosmetics like albion have?

Maybe people dont understand why cosmetics are really bad in mmorpgs focused in pvp, but if you want to know try new world, wars are a clown party here tanks and bruisers have all skins with robes like Gandalf, and healers, glasscanons with heavy armor skins....

And you can say " oh yeh but in AOC they have a buff with gear indicator " well good luck with that in 250vs250 , even in 50vs50 is difficult to look at some weapons, imagine a small buff in a caracter

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