Why not offer 2v2 Arenas?

Currently it seems only 1v1, 3v3 and 5v5 arenas are planned. How come 2v2 is overlooked? Playing a game togheter with only 1 friend is extremely common and I don't see why 2v2 should not be offered at all. I mean, in many other games 2v2 is immensely more popular than 5v5 and 1v1. Many players even prefer to focus on it!

I love 3v3 but sometimes just chilling with a single friend doing 2v2 is very fun and laid back. It has a slower pace than 3v3 while still offering you to play with a friend. When I feel like just playing for fun and start playing quickly with a friend 2v2 is the best way to do that. It is convenient. finding a third player is sometimes a hassle.

Also 2v2 opens up the option for viable non healer combos. In 2v2, you can usually pair anything you want and don't be heavily handicapped for not bringing a healer/support. This helps simply jumping in to games with strangers and friends without worrying all that much about combos.

Why not just offer 2v2 in combination with the other sizes? I believe you should offer it and don't see a reason why not.

Also, do we even need 1v1 arenas, when dueling is a thing? If you want them, do not make these rated, it is stupid. Please, do not have a single piece of content or achivement connected to 1v1. It will backlash like hell.

What do you think?

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Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

That is a bit unfair, I don’t see why both PvE & PvP can’t be equally focused on?

They are.

The PvP focus in Ashes is open world, not arena.

The arena is there as a non-progression sideshow. The focus for PvP is in regards to the corruption system, caravans, guild and node wars and sieges.

Yeah but once tournaments comes into play
That will be when arena shines my guy 🥰

There is no suggestion of PvP tournaments outside of the military node mayor contest - which is not fought between player characters.

Why would a game that is all about open world conflict and cooperation put in arena tournaments?

Pyrolol

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

That is a bit unfair, I don’t see why both PvE & PvP can’t be equally focused on?

They are.

The PvP focus in Ashes is open world, not arena.

The arena is there as a non-progression sideshow. The focus for PvP is in regards to the corruption system, caravans, guild and node wars and sieges.

Yeah but once tournaments comes into play
That will be when arena shines my guy 🥰

There is no suggestion of PvP tournaments outside of the military node mayor contest - which is not fought between player characters.

Why would a game that is all about open world conflict and cooperation put in arena tournaments?

Still don’t see why rated arena with leaderboards, titles, rewards not be taken just as serious if not more as unbalanced world pvp where eventually you get outnumbered?

Makes zero sense, clearly you have never gotten that high in anything competitive to be so against it

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

Still don’t see why rated arena with leaderboards, titles, rewards not be taken just as serious if not more as unbalanced world pvp where eventually you get outnumbered?

Makes zero sense, clearly you have never gotten that high in anything competitive to be so against it

The idea of this game is not to lock yourself in some room with a set number of other people and pretend to fight to see who of just the few of you in there at that time is the best.

The idea of Ashes is that you world PvP is unbalanced and you can get outnumbered.

The idea is to bring along more friends. The idea is to come back later, when they don't expect you. The idea is to attack their friends, attack their resources, attack them while they are attacking others. Attack them while they are travelling to the arena, or to the siege.

You are right in that I have never "gotten that high in anything competitive" is by anything competitive you are limiting it to instanced PvP.

However, I have "gotten that high" in instanced PvE, and in open world - well, everything.

Ashes will have an arena. If that is what you want, cool.

Just expect it to be a sideshow to the real game.

Pyrolol

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

Still don’t see why rated arena with leaderboards, titles, rewards not be taken just as serious if not more as unbalanced world pvp where eventually you get outnumbered?

Makes zero sense, clearly you have never gotten that high in anything competitive to be so against it

The idea of this game is not to lock yourself in some room with a set number of other people and pretend to fight to see who of just the few of you in there at that time is the best.

The idea of Ashes is that you world PvP is unbalanced and you can get outnumbered.

The idea is to bring along more friends. The idea is to come back later, when they don't expect you. The idea is to attack their friends, attack their resources, attack them while they are attacking others. Attack them while they are travelling to the arena, or to the siege.

You are right in that I have never "gotten that high in anything competitive" is by anything competitive you are limiting it to instanced PvP.

However, I have "gotten that high" in instanced PvE, and in open world - well, everything.

Ashes will have an arena. If that is what you want, cool.

Just expect it to be a sideshow to the real game.

My point still stands, get rid of 1v1 and add 2v2 for option of double dps
You also get your world PvP which everyone will be taking part on anyway
Just don't see why it needs much attention as its pretty much a given when you run out into the open world for questing, dailies etc

Hence, why they can delegate resources for the arena to not just be a side show and instead a major part of the PvP world just like in WoW

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

Hence, why they can delegate resources for the arena to not just be a side show and instead a major part of the PvP world just like in WoW

But they don't want that.

They want you out in the world. If you have an open world, and you want to focus on that open world, you don't then want to also encourage players to spend long periods of time in instances (PvE or PvP). Short periods in such instances is fine, but you want people to focus their time on the open world.

Ashes is not trying to be WoW. It is, if anything, trying to be the opposite of WoW - to fix the negative aspects of MMO's that Blizzard introduced in WoW.

Pyrolol

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

Hence, why they can delegate resources for the arena to not just be a side show and instead a major part of the PvP world just like in WoW

But they don't want that.

They want you out in the world. If you have an open world, and you want to focus on that open world, you don't then want to also encourage players to spend long periods of time in instances (PvE or PvP). Short periods in such instances is fine, but you want people to focus their time on the open world.

Ashes is not trying to be WoW. It is, if anything, trying to be the opposite of WoW - to fix the negative aspects of MMO's that Blizzard introduced in WoW.

First of all, why wouldn't they take aspects from one of the most successful MMO's for almost 2 decades? (not including the most recent expac that just went down to the ground)

Secondly, if you ever played WoW back in the day, TBC, WOTLK you would have experienced the open world and warfare that got brought with it.

Majority of your time was spent doing dailies, quests, dungeons for gold and gear, so with this time spent in the open world everyday ALL you experienced was open world PvP. It became mini wars and non stop ganking / group ganking. Finally, when you had enough viable gear you would enter the arena. BUT you still had to do dailies (even after you were competing in arena) it never ended, which mean world PvP never ended. You are wrong when you say "all people would just be sitting in instanced arena"

So they can easily concentrate on the Arena and for competitive players since World PvP would not be hard for them to work on and most of the time will be spent in the open world until you can start climbing the ladder

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

First of all, why wouldn't they take aspects from one of the most successful MMO's for almost 2 decades? (not including the most recent expac that just went down to the ground)

Because that is not the game that Steven is making.

If you think that WoW ever had open world content that can be compared to Ashes, I'm not sure what to tell you...

Pyrolol

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

First of all, why wouldn't they take aspects from one of the most successful MMO's for almost 2 decades? (not including the most recent expac that just went down to the ground)

Because that is not the game that Steven is making.

If you think that WoW ever had open world content that can be compared to Ashes, I'm not sure what to tell you...

Mate, I was literally arguing your point of "people spending all the time in an instanced pvp" and just proved that you were wrong with the older WoW expacs
never said it was the same open world concept at all, what im saying is you will have your silly open world unbalanced, outnumbered world pvp

also #bring in 2v2 arena

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

Mate, I was literally arguing your point of "people spending all the time in an instanced pvp"

I specifically said PvP OR PvE instances.

WoW dungeons are all PvE instances.

Why would you use WoW sending players in to instances in an attempt to point out how WoW had open world content?

Do you just think everything that isn't an arena is open world?

Pyrolol

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

Mate, I was literally arguing your point of "people spending all the time in an instanced pvp"

I specifically said PvP OR PvE instances.

WoW dungeons are all PvE instances.

Why would you use WoW sending players in to instances in an attempt to point out how WoW had open world content?

Do you just think everything that isn't an arena is open world?

You can’t at all be serious rn

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

Mate, I was literally arguing your point of "people spending all the time in an instanced pvp"

I specifically said PvP OR PvE instances.

WoW dungeons are all PvE instances.

Why would you use WoW sending players in to instances in an attempt to point out how WoW had open world content?

Do you just think everything that isn't an arena is open world?

You can’t at all be serious rn

I mean, you're the one that bought up dungeons in WoW in relation to open world...

I'm just trying to figure out what you are talking about with that.

Pyrolol

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

Mate, I was literally arguing your point of "people spending all the time in an instanced pvp"

I specifically said PvP OR PvE instances.

WoW dungeons are all PvE instances.

Why would you use WoW sending players in to instances in an attempt to point out how WoW had open world content?

Do you just think everything that isn't an arena is open world?

You can’t at all be serious rn

I mean, you're the one that bought up dungeons in WoW in relation to open world...

I'm just trying to figure out what you are talking about with that.

What? No I didn't

It was more this comment

Noaani: The idea of this game is not to lock yourself in some room with a set number of other people and pretend to fight to see who of just the few of you in there at that time is the best.

You know very well dungeons are not world pvp. Literally said doing dailies was because it was all out in the open

JamesSunderland

You might be wondering, why specifically 1v1, 3v3 and 5v5?
My bet would be Steven's sources of inspiration for Ashes-> Lineage 2 and Archeage

Lineage 2 arena system was called the Olympiads system which consisted of 3 types of arenas:
1v1 non-class specific(Any class can fight any class)
1v1 class specific(You can only fight against your own class)
3v3 non-class specific.

Archeage during its early days had 2 arenas modes:
1v1 (Gladiator arena) (Any class can fight any class)
5v5 (Drill Camp Arena) (Any class can fight any class)(a full party in archeage is 5 people)

While i don't having anything against a 2v2, 4v4, 6v6 or 7v7 arenas, i don't find them something necessary when you have a 1v1, a 3v3 and a 5v5 arena.

Having too much arenas would only segragate and make longer queues.
The only arena i would add (even if a had to cut 5v5 to put in its place) is a 8v8 arena as it would represent a full party vs party arena and maybe a 40vs40 as a representation of a full raid vs raid arena).

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

You know very well dungeons are not world pvp. Literally said doing dailies was because it was all out in the open

Yes, I know you said dailies (something the Ashes community has resoundingly rejected for this game as well, but that's for another thread). But you also said dungeons.

Here, I'll quote you as a refresher.

Pyrolol wrote: »

Majority of your time was spent doing dailies, quests, dungeons for gold and gear

If you didn't mean to bring up dungeons in relation to open world content, then why did you bring dungeons up in relation to open world content?

Not that any of this matters, the arena in Ashes is still a side show. If anyone were to brag about their arena rank, no doubt they would get stomped on as soon as they went out in to that open world (which, in Ashes, includes dungeons as they are not instanced).

Fact is, since the arena is a side show, the best PvP'ers won't even bother with it. They will be out taking or defending nodes or castles, while the silly little people fight over arena rankings.

Pyrolol

I still don’t agree that the only form of competitive play will just be a side show
Otherwise the game for PvPer would get very boring like the way New World did

Pyrolol

JamesSunderland wrote: »

You might be wondering, why specifically 1v1, 3v3 and 5v5?
My bet would be Steven's sources of inspiration for Ashes-> Lineage 2 and Archeage

Lineage 2 arena system was called the Olympiads system which consisted of 3 types of arenas:
1v1 non-class specific(Any class can fight any class)
1v1 class specific(You can only fight against your own class)
3v3 non-class specific.

Archeage during its early days had 2 arenas modes:
1v1 (Gladiator arena) (Any class can fight any class)
5v5 (Drill Camp Arena) (Any class can fight any class)(a full party in archeage is 5 people)

While i don't having anything against a 2v2, 4v4, 6v6 or 7v7 arenas, i don't find them something necessary when you have a 1v1, a 3v3 and a 5v5 arena.

Having too much arenas would only segragate and make longer queues.
The only arena i would add (even if a had to cut 5v5 to put in its place) is a 8v8 arena as it would represent a full party vs party arena and maybe a 40vs40 as a representation of a full raid vs raid arena).

2v2 / 5v5 - Less rewards
3v3 - Max rewards

Like OP stated
1 healer per bracket
Arena would be perfect

JamesSunderland

Pyrolol wrote: »

2v2 / 5v5 - Less rewards
3v3 - Max rewards

Like OP stated
1 healer per bracket
Arena would be perfect

This doesn't make a lot of sense, i would like to know the logic behind something like that other than personal preference especially when neglecting 1v1 arenas.

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

I still don’t agree that the only form of competitive play will just be a side show

Why is an arena the only form of competitive play?

akabear

Been many years, so do not remember well.. but at the time, the Neverwinter 3 v 3 was an awesome way to polish pvp skills.. and I haven`t found a mmo (if you can call neverwinter one) that replicated the same action combat.. hope for something like a control point , points system or similar. NW has probably dates.. as never been back.

Pyrolol

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

2v2 / 5v5 - Less rewards
3v3 - Max rewards

Like OP stated
1 healer per bracket
Arena would be perfect

This doesn't make a lot of sense, i would like to know the logic behind something like that other than personal preference especially when neglecting 1v1 arenas.

There's dueling, i do not see the point in 1v1 rated arena?

2v2 was good but it was very cheesey, double dps etc made it fun because then you didn't need to play 30min + matches when it was healer/dps vs healer/dps hence the rewards being less

3v3 was the more competitive type of arena and most intense, due to the fact that out of the rest of the brackets) it was the most balanced. Two teams of 1 healer + 2 dps go in, 1 team walks out, was much more

5v5 was by far the most fun, though it was more just a meme and hence also less rewards given

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