DPS Meter Megathread

This discussion was created from comments split from: DPS Meter Megathread.

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Noaani

WuqingYe wrote: »

DPS and healing meters are incredibly helpful for making sure you know you're doing the job correctly! Meters are one of those double-edged swords where they are incredibly useful but can be easily misused by a-holes. In my opinion, it's way more helpful to just have the meters but only have it to where you can only view your results. If, say, guild members want to compare notes they can just discuss amongst themselves with screen shots or the like (a bit annoying and task-orientated but it seems like a good middle ground to having meters but making sure toxic people can't misuse that information).

@WuqingYe

This is not entirely different to the suggestion that was predominant about 80 pages back in this thread (I assume you read the whole thread).

That suggestion was to build a combat tracker in to the game and deliver it to players as an optional guild perk - and make it so that it only tracks combat for people within your guild.

That way, each guild can decide whether they want it or not. Since most guilds form up around players that are similar in their approach to how they play the game, the vast majority of guilds will either basically all want trackers, or basically all not want trackers.

The problem with having personal numbers that can then be shared is that people running raids will tell everyone that a condition of coming along is sharing those numbers, and those not willing to do so will be excluded from that raid.

Since the only reason Intrepid have given for not wanting combat trackers is that players use them to exclude other players, this doesn't seem like a prevention of that at all to me.

However, if players even having those numbers isn't a guaranteed thing, it is much harder for that guild leader to demand them from people joining their group or raid.

Tragnar

Since Lost Ark launched in EU I was playing it almost nonstop and the fact that you dont have a working meter in most of the content did not bother me in the slightest, because you actually have custom testing room with built-in dps meter and customization so you can tryout any build in the game and measure it in any way you want.

Also dps in lost ark does not have even comparable importance to other mmos, because you dont have the holy trinity of dps, tank and heal, but a simple 3dps and a support. So players dont have the blanket of a tank to be safe.

tldr:
So there is actually a proof that the dps meter discussion is a developer problem, because lost ark solved it by abandoning tank, heal, dps trinity and increased emphasis on personal responsibility that isnt doing damage. And still you have a working built-in meter in the corner to test builds and practice rotations

Caww

Min/Max pressure will escalate if a traditional DPS meter is part of the UI.

If there were a meter I would like it to be implemented by AoC themselves so that the results are as accurate as possible. It's hard to know if the meter is a door-opener or a door-closer (the door swings both ways?) regarding players being chosen for guild activities.

Tragnar

min/max pressure escalates proportionally with the size of the playerbase - it has literally nothing to do if meter is part of the ui or not - the meter may shape the appearance of the meta, but not the sweatiness of it

Happymeal2415

Just put a training dummy in town... good enough

Azryil

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

Just put a training dummy in town... good enough

Only if that training dummy gives feedback on dps and a breakdown of damage by skill

BlackBrony

Noaani wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

Why want a combat tracker? Intrepid will never make it like it should, so people will use a third party one. Noaani said it's already done, why should IS waste resources on something that people already developed.

The best reason why is to give all players a level playing field.
If Intrepid build it in to the game instead, then all players have access to it - whether they chose to use that access or not.

But then the field is not the same. A guild perk means some people will have it. Also how can you assure me that there won't be a third party one? You can tell me your word is valid for the whole Ashes community? You said it yourself, there WILL be a combat tracker. What difference does it make if IS makes one themselves? How can you be 100% sure what they could make would be actually useful for people?
What's the point on using time to develop something that people will just replace with an external addon?

Noaani

BlackBrony wrote: »

A guild perk means some people will have it.

Yes, but if you opt to not take it, you get something in it's place that those that did take it can not get.

That way, guilds with a play style that will make use of it can take it, and guilds that have a play style that will not use it - which happen to be guilds that would not use it anyway - can take something else that they will use.

That is as fair a playing field as possible.

If Intrepid make it and add it to the game in a manner that does everything that players will want, there is no real point in maintaining a third party tracker (which would need near constant maintenance), and there is no point in going through the hassle of using one either.

WuqingYe

Noaani wrote: »

This is not entirely different to the suggestion that was predominant about 80 pages back in this thread (I assume you read the whole thread).

Why would I read the whole thread? lmao just pitching in my two cents like everyone else here. Whatever Intrepid decides upon I'm cool with

the more people express their thoughts on a topic the easier it is for Intrepid to get a clearer view on what the majority of people might be in favor of. There are always pros and cons to a choice and it will be fun seeing how Intrepid decides to run with things.

Noaani

WuqingYe wrote: »

Why would I read the whole thread?

While I am aware sarcasm doesn't translate very well via text, that was indeed a joke.

BlackBrony

Noaani wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

A guild perk means some people will have it.

If Intrepid make it and add it to the game in a manner that does everything that players will want

How can they achieve this? It's impossible to satisfy every single raider, and you know this.

Noaani

BlackBrony wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

A guild perk means some people will have it.

If Intrepid make it and add it to the game in a manner that does everything that players will want

How can they achieve this? It's impossible to satisfy every single raider, and you know this.

No it's not.

ACT does it just fine, and has done so for 15 or so years.

Dygz

What players want is no DPS meters.

Tragnar

Some players want meters to be disabled for everyone
Some players want to use meters
Some players dont give a flying f

Noaani

Tragnar wrote: »

Some players want meters to be disabled for everyone
Some players want to use meters
Some players dont give a flying f

Players do not get to dictate how others play - saying they should not be available to anyone is not only an unreasonable stance, it is one that is already simply not going to happen.

Players can, however, have the stance that they don't want others to track their combat, and they can have that with guild based trackers - simply don't join a guild that has them.

Thus, all players are happy, other than those trying to dictate how others should play the game.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

What players want is no DPS meters.

There is at least as much support for trackers as against them. This thread shows that.

Most of the people not wanting trackers would have no issue with a guild based tracker.

Szaas

I think we should first wait for the game to release, play it and see for ourselves if no dps meters are indeed needed.
If not having them is ruining the raids, then we can all come back here and ask for them.

For information, I've always been quite good on dps meters in WoW, yet I am an advocate of "'no dps meters" in AoC. People should focus on the strat and not dying instead of feeling in a hot seat because maybe they're not doing enough dps and will get kicked. <-- that leads to taking more risks and paying less attention to the boss strat, then dying or wiping the raid more.

Let's see how raids will work, how demanding they will be, and if they require a dps meter.

Heartbeat

I never played WoW but heard that DPS meters in that game became very toxic and dps roles that couldn't pump out enough damage would be replaced and excluded in raids.

Stuff like that shouldn't exist in AOC.

Azryil

Heartbeat wrote: »

I never played WoW but heard that DPS meters in that game became very toxic and dps roles that couldn't pump out enough damage would be replaced and excluded in raids.

Stuff like that shouldn't exist in AOC.

Though it could get out of hand at times especially when pugging, I think there are perfectly valid reasons to replace underperforming players in raids during progression. If your team is unable to beat a dps check than replacing your lowest dps with another player that has better performance will lead to more success for the raid team. This doesn't have to be simply because the player is underperforming, it could also come down the how classes play, such as high burst classes vs sustained dps classes.

Noaani

Heartbeat wrote: »

I never played WoW but heard that DPS meters in that game became very toxic and dps roles that couldn't pump out enough damage would be replaced and excluded in raids.

Stuff like that shouldn't exist in AOC.

As an avid proponent of combat trackers, I totally agree that you shouldn't be able to treat other players as replaceable. I find that kind of thing despicable.

The reason this was done in WoW was because the game allowed you to boot players from groups or raids, and replace them immediately. If the game didn't allow you to just port a replacement straight to you, then you wouldn't replace people.

This is why I am opposed to the family summons. It will allow this kind of thing - with or without a combat tracker.

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