Why not offer 2v2 Arenas?

Currently it seems only 1v1, 3v3 and 5v5 arenas are planned. How come 2v2 is overlooked? Playing a game togheter with only 1 friend is extremely common and I don't see why 2v2 should not be offered at all. I mean, in many other games 2v2 is immensely more popular than 5v5 and 1v1. Many players even prefer to focus on it!

I love 3v3 but sometimes just chilling with a single friend doing 2v2 is very fun and laid back. It has a slower pace than 3v3 while still offering you to play with a friend. When I feel like just playing for fun and start playing quickly with a friend 2v2 is the best way to do that. It is convenient. finding a third player is sometimes a hassle.

Also 2v2 opens up the option for viable non healer combos. In 2v2, you can usually pair anything you want and don't be heavily handicapped for not bringing a healer/support. This helps simply jumping in to games with strangers and friends without worrying all that much about combos.

Why not just offer 2v2 in combination with the other sizes? I believe you should offer it and don't see a reason why not.

Also, do we even need 1v1 arenas, when dueling is a thing? If you want them, do not make these rated, it is stupid. Please, do not have a single piece of content or achivement connected to 1v1. It will backlash like hell.

What do you think?

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Pyrolol

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

So that’s your opinion of what will happen
Mine is
Just like every new games thats come out recently is
Competitive play will come into it later on with big streamers which in turn will make the game more popular
Then tournaments at a very later stage like worlds etc on twitch

So enjoy running around and getting killed in unbalanced, stale open world pvp and leave the arena for the big boys yeah

Oh, ok, so you basically have no idea at all what this game is about then.

I mean, I knew that a few pages ago, but whatever.

---

This is an open world MMORPG.

There is no desire at all to try and make it an e-sport title, there is no desire at all to try and court streamers once the game is live. In fact, since the game is designed around essentially grind based gameplay, it would be uneconomical for a larger streamer to even consider this game (large streamers stream as content to make money - people generally don't want to watch someone else grind in an MMO).

The only streamers this game will have are smaller scale ones, people that stream for fun rather than for profit. Even then, after the second or third time they lose a siege due to someone on the opposing side watching their stream, they will soon learn to not even bother streaming the worthwhile content in the game.

Your assumption for what this game is going to be is diametrically opposed to what Steven has said he wants the game to be.

Also, "stale" open world PvP is the excuse people have that can't hack it out in the real (online) world. It isn't stale, you just keep losing to people that have no arena rank.

Wait what? Hahaha you can’t be serious right.
From someone who has done open world pvp far longer than you have on numerous games, you can’t talk at all, been there done it million times over and its the same every time, every expac, in every mmo only thing that keeps people coming back or staying in PvP is the arena seasons

Sorry you struggle to grasp simple mechanics and strategy to play in a competitive environment

You can’t be that dense
Take a look at twitch from the past few months

New world (Open world MMO) had shroud streaming, with over 100k viewers each time he did (game died due to bugs and zero end game content)

Lost Ark Same thing, big streamers jump on it
And currently with Elden Ring literally Dr Disrespect is playing it right now

Never needed an excuse like i said 50 times over i know what this games about, can do it all and will. This thread is not about if arenas will be taken seriously it’s literally about adding a 2v2 bracket and nothing more, you keep coming back here and voicing zero experience opinions

Only people who hate arena are the players who never got high in anything lmfao

EDIT: Just because it starts off with no intention doesn’t mean it can’t change later, if arena pops off in this game and goes large why wouldn’t they do it?
Take Apex legends for example, game came outta no where with no intentions for anything

Now its still the 5th highest played game
Has ranked BR and ranked arena
With annual tournaments

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

Take a look at twitch from the past few months

New World and Elden Ring paid streamers to stream.

Lost Ark is an online ARPG, not an MMORPG. May ass well be talking about DOTA or LoL.

Apex Legends was always designed as an e-sport title, so it shouldn't be a huge surprise that it is being developed as an e-sport title.

Again, that isn't what Ashes is about, the only way the game will be the game you are thinking it will be is if Steven sells it.

Pyrolol

Guess we will see what happens when the game comes out, now bugger off to a thread and give your opinion on things you don’t care about lmfao

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

Guess we will see what happens when the game comes out

Indeed.

Spurius

Pyrolol wrote: »

in every mmo only thing that keeps people coming back or staying in PvP is the arena seasons

Not true. In LOTRO many players played exclusevely for Ettenmoors - an open-world PvP location. We've spent years in Ettenmoors, some people even close to a decade.

Pyrolol

Spurius wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

in every mmo only thing that keeps people coming back or staying in PvP is the arena seasons

Not true. In LOTRO many players played exclusevely for Ettenmoors - an open-world PvP location. We've spent years in Ettenmoors, some people even close to a decade.

Most, I still believe competitive play can be just as focused on as well as other aspects of the game

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

Spurius wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

in every mmo only thing that keeps people coming back or staying in PvP is the arena seasons

Not true. In LOTRO many players played exclusevely for Ettenmoors - an open-world PvP location. We've spent years in Ettenmoors, some people even close to a decade.

Most, I still believe competitive play can be just as focused on as well as other aspects of the game

You conflate competitive play with arena play.

I would also add Archeage to the list of games where the arena was not the mainstay of PvP. Since Ashes is taking more inspiration from Archeage than from any other game, it is one you maybe want to pay attention to.

JustVine

(Stir the pot opinion)
If 3v3 arena isn't fun, the combat probably turned out poor compared to expectations. 'Interesting' 'dynamic' battlegrounds in an overworld setting won't be enough to fix any problems of scope, balance and feel. Intrepid plans on a nontraditional styles of balancing combat. Therefore it's in Intrepid's best interest to hamstring arena for as long as possible to obfuscate design flaws in combat, possibly not even including a 3v3 mode ever to prevent any easily replicable opinion relative to balance (this isn't a problem for 1v1 or 2v2 arena.)
So while a 3v3 arena mode would be consumer friendly and probably fun and competitive if the combat turns out well, it really shouldn't be included for the sake of the company relative to how much criticsm and scrutiny arena will put on the combat system. They'll have their hands full with siege and caravan combat critique for similar but less avoidable reasons.
(I'll take my answers off the air.)

Pyrolol

JustVine wrote: »

(Stir the pot opinion)
If 3v3 arena isn't fun, the combat probably turned out poor compared to expectations. 'Interesting' 'dynamic' battlegrounds in an overworld setting won't be enough to fix any problems of scope, balance and feel. Intrepid plans on a nontraditional styles of balancing combat. Therefore it's in Intrepid's best interest to hamstring arena for as long as possible to obfuscate design flaws in combat, possibly not even including a 3v3 mode ever to prevent any easily replicable opinion relative to balance (this isn't a problem for 1v1 or 2v2 arena.)
So while a 3v3 arena mode would be consumer friendly and probably fun and competitive if the combat turns out well, it really shouldn't be included for the sake of the company relative to how much criticsm and scrutiny arena will put on the combat system. They'll have their hands full with siege and caravan combat critique for similar but less avoidable reasons.
(I'll take my answers off the air.)

3v3 will be and always been the most fun, though in saying that 5v5 comes close
It will be the main once cause its the most balanced

Nagash

considering the game is balanced around groups making arenas smaller seems like a handicap

Pyrolol

Nagash wrote: »

considering the game is balanced around groups making arenas smaller seems like a handicap

This is not compared to groups, its out of all 3 brackets though

Noaani

Nagash wrote: »

considering the game is balanced around groups making arenas smaller seems like a handicap

Yeah, a lack of 8v8 does seem odd to me as well.

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

(Stir the pot opinion)
If 3v3 arena isn't fun, the combat probably turned out poor compared to expectations. 'Interesting' 'dynamic' battlegrounds in an overworld setting won't be enough to fix any problems of scope, balance and feel. Intrepid plans on a nontraditional styles of balancing combat. Therefore it's in Intrepid's best interest to hamstring arena for as long as possible to obfuscate design flaws in combat, possibly not even including a 3v3 mode ever to prevent any easily replicable opinion relative to balance (this isn't a problem for 1v1 or 2v2 arena.)
So while a 3v3 arena mode would be consumer friendly and probably fun and competitive if the combat turns out well, it really shouldn't be included for the sake of the company relative to how much criticsm and scrutiny arena will put on the combat system. They'll have their hands full with siege and caravan combat critique for similar but less avoidable reasons.
(I'll take my answers off the air.)

3v3 will be and always been the most fun, though in saying that 5v5 comes close
It will be the main once cause its the most balanced

5v5 in a game like WoW is 8v8 in Ashes - a full group.

Pyrolol

Noaani wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

(Stir the pot opinion)
If 3v3 arena isn't fun, the combat probably turned out poor compared to expectations. 'Interesting' 'dynamic' battlegrounds in an overworld setting won't be enough to fix any problems of scope, balance and feel. Intrepid plans on a nontraditional styles of balancing combat. Therefore it's in Intrepid's best interest to hamstring arena for as long as possible to obfuscate design flaws in combat, possibly not even including a 3v3 mode ever to prevent any easily replicable opinion relative to balance (this isn't a problem for 1v1 or 2v2 arena.)
So while a 3v3 arena mode would be consumer friendly and probably fun and competitive if the combat turns out well, it really shouldn't be included for the sake of the company relative to how much criticsm and scrutiny arena will put on the combat system. They'll have their hands full with siege and caravan combat critique for similar but less avoidable reasons.
(I'll take my answers off the air.)

3v3 will be and always been the most fun, though in saying that 5v5 comes close
It will be the main once cause its the most balanced

5v5 in a game like WoW is 8v8 in Ashes - a full group.

But the only brackets confirmed in Ashes is
1v1, 3v3, 5v5

In regards to balance, since this game is mostly skill shots might be alright, will come down to cooldown management, los’ing, dodging, hitting your skills, team composition etc

So can’t really speculate until its out and people are relatively the same gear competing
I’am pretty excited to see how it turns out cause could be really fun especially compared to current WoWs arena 😂

JamesSunderland

I truly believe 8v8 will be implemented as an arena mode because of the standard 8-man party size and the combat balance of the game revolving around full groups.

Pyrolol

Doubt it
That’s too big just becomes a zerg fest with no real strategy or coordination
Plus already have so many brackets

Though i’am interested to see the 20man death match will it be a mini royale with last one standing or will you keep respawning and highest kill count wins

JamesSunderland

Pyrolol wrote: »

Doubt it
That’s too big just becomes a zerg fest with no real strategy or coordination
Plus already have so many brackets

8-man zerg?

That's the first time i've ever heard of a zerg that small..
There can be strategy and coordination in far bigger groups than that.
Sure an extra bracket, but that would be theorically the most competitive and most balanced bracket.

Noaani

Pyrolol wrote: »

Doubt it
That’s too big just becomes a zerg fest with no real strategy or coordination

8 players is what most players in Ashes will be used to. it will be the basic unit of organized combat.

I agree with James that it is the one arena mode that is likely to be added.

Anyone unable to maintain strategy and coordination in a group of 8 may well be better off staying in instanced PvP.

Pyrolol

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

Doubt it
That’s too big just becomes a zerg fest with no real strategy or coordination
Plus already have so many brackets

8-man zerg? That's the first time i've ever heard of a zerg that small..
There can be strategy and coordination in far bigger groups than that.
Sure an extra bracket, but that would be theorically the most competitive and most balanced bracket.

Maybe for the arena when they did the brawl is what I remember it being was choatic 😂

However in saying that, could be a different game mode? Like the equivalent of RBGs in WoW, like capture the flag mode etc

But I think arena will stay as what its set atm atleast for the first couple of seasons and be interesting to see how it goes

Also, you keep saying its a side thing, but if this games pops off and becomes big then i can’t see why all aspects of the games can’t be focused on

Ranked arena with different rewards, different season gears, titles, mounts etc

JamesSunderland

Pyrolol wrote: »

Also, you keep saying its a side thing, but if this games pops off and becomes big then i can’t see why all aspects of the games can’t be focused on

Ranked arena with different rewards, different season gears, titles, mounts etc

I believe you are mistaking me for Noaani in this part.

I believe arenas can become way more than just a sideshow, especially if they take a "Lineage 2 olympiads" approach to it, but it's mere speculation at this point.

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