Games that sell pre-content...

I get that there might need to be some cash influx to keep development rolling, but continuously selling phantom content for a game that isn't even released, ala Star Citizen, really needs to go the way of the dodo. Maybe there is something there about being afraid of releasing an "unfinished" game (more like not entirely completed to spec) and having it die out quickly instead of taking off into space, but I feel like I would rather have the game released in some form and then new territories/content adding over time like typical expansions would be less "shady" and easier to swallow.

Is this really how people want development to be now? The question of biting off more than you can chew is starting to rear its head. Why is valuable time being spent creating "extra" things to make money instead of "finishing the game"? Are all the art assets actually complete for the base game? Are they still sucking up funds to create extra sell content? Why not hire different people for more pressing issues? Contract work ringing a bell?

Not trying to be a hater here, but I'm really getting sick of this type of development cycle. I'm certainly not going to buy it, but I wonder about the people that do decide to "fall into this trap" of "investing" into things when they don't even know what the game will ultimately be like. Maybe they are already sold for the long run, or maybe they are buying into something that will just disappoint them in the long-term. Maybe they don't even care about the money... I just really dislike seeing this type of thing pop up every few months that feels like it's shouting "Hey, we're running out of money, buy our stuff".

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tautau

If you don't want to buy real estate in London, are you upset that people are selling real estate in London?

If you don't want to buy creme donuts, are you upset at people who sell them?

If you don't want to buy a membership to a weightlifting gym, are you mad at the gym owners?

You can see where I am going with this, right? You are free to have your pet peeves, but if you complain in the weightlifting gym about the existence of memberships, don't act surprised at the feedback you get.

Talents

You could at least do some research before posting this thread. Mutliple things here:

Madae wrote: »

Is this really how people want development to be now? The question of biting off more than you can chew is starting to rear its head. Why is valuable time being spent creating "extra" things to make money instead of "finishing the game"? Are all the art assets actually complete for the base game? Are they still sucking up funds to create extra sell content? Why not hire different people for more pressing issues? Contract work ringing a bell?

For starters, the pre-order cosmetics they're selling are being made so that they can be used for mobs and other assets in-game. The costume that they're selling this month will be placed into the game as an NPC. The freehold building will be a building in the Desert, etc.

Second, they do hire contractors for stuff.

Madae wrote: »

Not trying to be a hater here, but I'm really getting sick of this type of development cycle. I'm certainly not going to buy it.

I also don't get this since you're apparently an "Adventurer" pack holder which means you've already spent $500 on one of the pre-order packs.

Taleof2Cities

Talents wrote: »

Madae wrote: »

Not trying to be a hater here, but I'm really getting sick of this type of development cycle. I'm certainly not going to buy it.

I also don't get this since you're apparently an "Adventurer" pack holder which means you've already spent $500 on one of the pre-order packs.

Yep, I noticed that disconnect as well.

I won't go as far as saying the OP is gaslighting ... since the thread was started today and not 2018.

Forum-goers have said it a million times ---> Pre-order pack cosmetics are totally optional. There's no obligation to buy.

Madae

None of you are addressing the point of selling phantom products for an unreleased game, you're just attacking me and what I decided to spend my money on. I wasn't expecting anyone to agree with me, especially coming from this forum, but you could lighten up a bit and stay on topic.

Would you defend Star Citizen for the same practice?

And FYI, I was talking about the cosmetics, not the game, which I clearly have supported, so feel free to tone down the random strawman.

Madae

tautau wrote: »

If you don't want to buy real estate in London, are you upset that people are selling real estate in London?

If you don't want to buy creme donuts, are you upset at people who sell them?

If you don't want to buy a membership to a weightlifting gym, are you mad at the gym owners?

You can see where I am going with this, right? You are free to have your pet peeves, but if you complain in the weightlifting gym about the existence of memberships, don't act surprised at the feedback you get.

What I'm disappointed with is the appearance of selling generally useless cosmetics for an unreleased game that serve no purpose but to inflate a wallet. Whether or not the sale is optional is irrelevant. Of course this money will go towards development, it's just the practice that I find distasteful. In "2 years", or whatever, when this content can actually be used is what I question. This is much different than buying a product that you have immediate access to, which cannot be compared to one that may not even be available depending on the success of the game (that is, assuming it releases at all). Who knows what will happen in the years leading up to release. It's also different than the initial investment and promise of a product that I supported. However you want to look at it, these sales can generally be construed as "please invest more", despite what anyone might say to the contrary.

Gamers tend to be a weird bunch, too. A lot of people play like "completionists" (achievement hunting), or feel like they need to collect everything so they aren't "missing out". There will be people that purchase this content just to have it, bragging rights, or whatever... I don't generally have a problem with that, too each their own, but again, I already bought the promise of a product, anything else is just "extra" that smacks of desperation. It's a weird thing that I would rather they just stop doing it and would be more satisfied with the occasional progress report instead of further sales of "the promise" of content that could poof on a very bad day. Thankfully, it's not nearly as bad as Star Citizen and $5,000-10,000 ships.

MybroViajero

Before commenting in that way you should inform yourself more about AoC, honestly it seems that you think only seeing the face of a single coin.....

I get that there might need to be some cash influx to keep development rolling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bdwPUu44zA&t=444s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPt_g8iMWc

Is this really how people want development to be now? The question of biting off more than you can chew is starting to rear its head. Why is valuable time being spent creating "extra" things to make money instead of "finishing the game"? Are all the art assets actually complete for the base game? Are they still sucking up funds to create extra sell content? Why not hire different people for more pressing issues? Contract work ringing a bell?

It's interesting, how can you give such an opinion without even knowing how the development organization works at Intrepid.
I remind you that 2 weeks ago Intrepid showed the CC in UE5 , they hired 20 people in the last month and they will continue to grow since Steven in the previous monthly update said that Intrepid should reach 200 workers for this year.

I'm certainly not going to buy it, but I wonder about the people that do decide to "fall into this trap" of "investing" into things when they don't even know what the game will ultimately be like.

I like pineapple pizza, are you worried about that too?

If you're going to worry about other people's tastes or how they use their own money, then you could really get sick of that cycle.

To sum it up, please inform yourself before giving your opinion in this way.

Dygz

Madae wrote: »

I get that there might need to be some cash influx to keep development rolling, but continuously selling phantom content for a game that isn't even released, ala Star Citizen, really needs to go the way of the dodo. Maybe there is something there about being afraid of releasing an "unfinished" game (more like not entirely completed to spec) and having it die out quickly instead of taking off into space, but I feel like I would rather have the game released in some form and then new territories/content adding over time like typical expansions would be less "shady" and easier to swallow.

Is this really how people want development to be now? The question of biting off more than you can chew is starting to rear its head. Why is valuable time being spent creating "extra" things to make money instead of "finishing the game"? Are all the art assets actually complete for the base game? Are they still sucking up funds to create extra sell content? Why not hire different people for more pressing issues? Contract work ringing a bell?

I have friends working on this game. And I want to support devs who are honing their skills working on features I want in an MMORPG. So that, even if this game becomes vaporware, it's easier for them to implement the features I like in the next games they work on.
If I don't have the cash to spare or don't like the cosmetics for a specific month, I don't purchase anything.

Madae

Please read more than just the first post.

Dygz

I read more than your first post.

Noaani

So, the packs up for sale now are supporter packs, not "here is some stuff for the game" packs.

If you are looking at these packs as products for the game - rather than as a means to support the games developers - then you are doing it wrong. The packs are there for people that want to support Intrepid - that is why they are called supporter packs.

It's fine if you do not wish to support the game or the developers any more than you already have. However, some people are happy to do so, and the supporter packs are there for that reason.

fabula

This sort of developer cycle was created out of necessity because no western game studio wanted to take the risk of creating an mmo.

An MMO is the biggest and most complex game you can make and in the history of mmos only a handful have made money and the rest have been massive losses. The mmo genre was pretty much dead in the west so the only hope of ever seeing a new game was from the use of the kickstarter model to gather the funds first and then create the product.

unknown

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superhero6785

Madae wrote: »

Why is valuable time being spent creating "extra" things to make money instead of "finishing the game"? Are all the art assets actually complete for the base game? Are they still sucking up funds to create extra sell content? Why not hire different people for more pressing issues? Contract work ringing a bell?

I think you've missed the part where they said all the cosmetics you buy in the monthly packs will be assets in game. Monsters, pets, NPCs, buildings, etc. (perhaps in a different color to keep it "unique"). So no, they are not "wasting" valuable time creating "extra" content. They are building the game and using those assets to double as cash-flow. Although, the game is supposedly "fully funded to completion" already, so take that however you will.

superhero6785

Madae wrote: »

None of you are addressing the point of selling phantom products for an unreleased game, you're just attacking me and what I decided to spend my money on. I wasn't expecting anyone to agree with me, especially coming from this forum, but you could lighten up a bit and stay on topic.

Would you defend Star Citizen for the same practice?

People pre-order things with a promise to deliver all the time. People have the right to spend their money on unreleased products if they wish. I personally have not purchased a pre-order pack yet because, like many, I'm waiting to see if they can deliver on some of their biggest promises (like the Node system), which we'll hopefully see more of in Alpha 2. And, yes I backed Star Citizen with $20 several years ago and have learned my lesson on realistic timelines vs promised timelines.

Caww

The problem with Star Citizen is that Chris Roberts was an established name and most people believed he could deliver so over $400 million has been pumped in to it. Phantom products definitely fits SC.

AoC doesn't have a marque developer, just a dedicated group to the project. They also don't push the cash shop like there is no tomorrow - they announce the monthly change and that's about it, so no hard selling involved.

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