Ramirez wrote: » It s an MMORPG, gear should have an major impact, people care to much by a casual but a casual player never will beat an player that play all day even in terms of skill or gear... League doesn't have gear but a casual will get destroyed vs a pro that play 10 hours per day so this discussion is pointless...
DFirehawkC wrote: » Sorry for the novel.
DFirehawkC wrote: » I completely agree with this. Gear is important and time spent in game is also important. If I spent 30+ hrs trying to get a boss level gear set and I finally obtain it, I don't want to be at the same level as someone who only spent 2 hrs playing and has average green level armor.
BlackBrony wrote: » DFirehawkC wrote: » I completely agree with this. Gear is important and time spent in game is also important. If I spent 30+ hrs trying to get a boss level gear set and I finally obtain it, I don't want to be at the same level as someone who only spent 2 hrs playing and has average green level armor. Just because you spent 30 hours dooesn't entitle you to the gear. Maybe you got unlucky on rolls, and the other person rolled a 100 on the first time the item dropped. Maybe the person bought with gold, because they have a business and don't need to dwelve into dungeons. Time doesn't mean anything. Wow classic is 15 years old and players still don't move out of red.
Dygz wrote: » I still don't understand what this has to do with casual v hardcore. The gear someone is wearing won't tell you how much time that person has actually played.
Downfall89 wrote: » I agree with OP. Better players will always do better. Gear should give a slight advantage. But good decisions in combat should always trump good gear. If that becomes an impossibility, then it will ruin gameplay.
VmanGman wrote: » Happymeal2415 wrote: » I mean we could quote Steven again and say this game is not for everyone. This game isn't being made to spoon feed people good characters. Time investment matters. When did I say that the game needs to be made to spoon feed people? When did I say that the game needs to be for everyone? You understand that the game will not survive or have very few funds for more content without casuals, right?
Happymeal2415 wrote: » I mean we could quote Steven again and say this game is not for everyone. This game isn't being made to spoon feed people good characters. Time investment matters.
Tulima wrote: » Happymeal2415 wrote: » My man. When did I say that hardcore players shouldn’t be rewarded for their time? Please reread the post and come back. @Swifts so everyone responding to you is misunderstanding your point? cuz this entire thread is essentially you saying gear shouldnt matter... people telling you it should... and then you saying we dont get it Shouldn't matter as much. For instance in a 1vs1 scenario. With 50% power from gear, the higher gear score player may make up to 5 mistakes and still win vs the lower gear score. With 30% power from gear, the higher gear score player may only make 3 mistakes in order to win vs the lower gear score player. Just some random numbers but you get what am trying to say. OP still wants the higher gear score player to have an advantage but not so much you could play like shit and still win. In reality, we don't know how much 50% or 30% actually is. How many mistakes can you actually afford to make with these gear-power levels? I can't tell until we actually get to test the combat system.
Happymeal2415 wrote: » My man. When did I say that hardcore players shouldn’t be rewarded for their time? Please reread the post and come back. @Swifts so everyone responding to you is misunderstanding your point? cuz this entire thread is essentially you saying gear shouldnt matter... people telling you it should... and then you saying we dont get it
My man. When did I say that hardcore players shouldn’t be rewarded for their time? Please reread the post and come back. @Swifts
VmanGman wrote: » One big concern I have for AoC is that gear will end up providing too much power. AoC is already a game that will greatly reward those who play a lot which is why I believe that it is imperative for gear to only account for at most 20-30% of a character's power. People will enjoy grinding out their gear even if each piece gives small increments of power increase. These small increments of power increase will allow the bulk of the population to not feel like they are so out geared that they cannot even come close to competing. This is very important because when those casual players will die over and over to a hardcore player that severely outgears them without any chance of fighting back, they will be very likely to just quit. Hardcore players will have other advantages (gold, skill, etc.) anyway because they play a lot more and there is no reason to further widen the gap between casual and hardcore players. Please understand that I am not against rewarding those who invest more time into the game. I am just suggesting that their reward should not create such a great disparity between them and casual players. I truly believe that this can greatly help the health of the game and its population.
VmanGman wrote: » Dygz wrote: » I mean... Ashes is balanced for 8-person groups. Seems easy enough for casual-time players to be in a group with hardcore-time players. Also, seems easy enough for them to have helpful friends who are hardcore-time players... even if they aren't all in a formal group. In Ashes, power will likely be determined by Level, points in Passive Skills, points in Active Skills, points in Weapon Skills, Armor, Weapon(s), Augments and Enchantments. Casual-time players can still make friends with other citizens who can help them acquire the gear they need. I don't think we should be worried about gear overpowering the other factors that provide characters with power - until we play/test and determine that the devs need to re-balance their design. I assume that you've played MMOs before. You are aware that most hardcore players will play with other hardcore players... that's just the nature of the genre and the community. Casuals will not be easily welcomed into hardcore 8 man groups. So your suggestion does not work.
Dygz wrote: » I mean... Ashes is balanced for 8-person groups. Seems easy enough for casual-time players to be in a group with hardcore-time players. Also, seems easy enough for them to have helpful friends who are hardcore-time players... even if they aren't all in a formal group. In Ashes, power will likely be determined by Level, points in Passive Skills, points in Active Skills, points in Weapon Skills, Armor, Weapon(s), Augments and Enchantments. Casual-time players can still make friends with other citizens who can help them acquire the gear they need. I don't think we should be worried about gear overpowering the other factors that provide characters with power - until we play/test and determine that the devs need to re-balance their design.
Leiloni wrote: » I agree with the sentiment but I think you're going about it the wrong way. For a casual, or even just someone with lesser skill, gear can help bridge a skill gap. I'd suggest Intrepid go about this casual gearing issue another way - make it relatively easy to get gear that will be competitive, and have gear that gives you that extra 5-10% be the stuff you really grind for.
Players also won't always be in a full 8 man party. Let's not forget that people will be in small groups or even solo a lot of the time.
DFirehawkC wrote: » Ramirez wrote: » It s an MMORPG, gear should have an major impact, people care to much by a casual but a casual player never will beat an player that play all day even in terms of skill or gear... League doesn't have gear but a casual will get destroyed vs a pro that play 10 hours per day so this discussion is pointless... I completely agree with this. Gear is important and time spent in game is also important. If I spent 30+ hrs trying to get a boss level gear set and I finally obtain it, I don't want to be at the same level as someone who only spent 2 hrs playing and has average green level armor. PVP in arenas is an easy fix for evening out hardcore and casuals since the whole point of PVP is testing skills against each other. You can easily set a default and/or max level for players fighting against each other. For example, lets say a casual has a gs of 320 and a hardcore player has one of 560. You can default the casual up to 400 and max the gs of someone above at 500 so when they play, the difference is only 100 vs 240. Anybody at a gs inbetween those levels stays the same. That way, even at a difference of 100gs, a casual can overcome the difference with enough skill. I'm picking these numbers randomly to prove a point. The developers would have to determine what gs difference would be acceptable to overcome to make the fight skill based. On another note, In the open world, if I'm a casual with a gs of 320 and I encounter someone who is much higher, I don't want to have the ability to put up a fight. They will slaughter me and I better run if I don't want that. In the early days, WoW did that well and I had a blast when I saw someone with a skull for lvls. That told me that I better get the heck out of there. And honestly, the rush of running for my life was quite the fun experience. Eventually I got to the point where I was the high level and I saw those with lower levels running for their lives. Higher levels also came to the rescue when a higher level of a different faction was spotted. It was fun and all players respected others enough not to make a miserable gaming experience for each other by continually killing lower leveled players. I would kill a few that tried to make a stand, to show my superiority , then I left to go do something else. Other players did the same. I guess my whole point is that casuals should be able to enjoy all parts of gameplay but it shouldn't be the same as how hardcores enjoy it. If someone spends 16 hrs a day to get the end level and they have the gear to support it, well, a casual spending much less time won't experience the same thing for a while. Thats the whole point of an MMORPG. You spend time leveling up your character, increasing stats, getting better gear, fighting tougher bosses. That is the reward for all the time spent. And I don't think someone who has lots of money should be able to get the same experience with a fraction of the time. If you dont' have the time to play an MMO, find another game or accept the fact that you'll experience the same content at a much slower pace. Sorry for the novel.
