Female Expression In AoC

As a Female MMO gamer I would like to suggest giving more effeminate options in armor styles. My concern is that I would like to have the option for dressing effeminately. The reason I am suggesting to make it optional is so people can dress as feminine or masculine or neutral as the player choses. This aids players self expression. Different armor styles as well as jewelry and makeup would be very helpful in this goal. I understand that you would like to keep things on the more practical side but this could be stifling to the communities creativity. Self expression and fashion is very important to me as a player I would like as many options as possible in creating my character.

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Zahie

Lithion wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

I don't think it's simply about hate against sexy female characters.
It's more about the sexual objectifying of female game characters and females in general.

So far every girl that has commented has been in favor of making sexy characters though. So who is getting upset about sexualizing's women? Most of this topic isn't about putting women in mini bikinis or anything, just more feminine armor that is form fitting and sexy looking. Wouldn't you agree that most women would like the option to make their character sexy from time to time and feel sexy as they play? If you look back at page one the post by @Leiloni was a good example of sexy but still practical. I'm in agreement that bikini armor is a bit immersion breaking because how does it protect anything lol but I think a lot of this thread is just asking for armor that is more sexy than what we are getting currently. NOT full stripper mode lol

Why do you get so triggerd?
I just answerd your question about why so many people hate sexy female characters in games.
I'll repeat myself, I don't think it's about hating sexy female characters pers se, I think its more about disliking the sexual objectifying of femele characters.
If you're not sure what sexual objectification really is, you can read about it here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification

You said you was legitly curious and didn't want to argue, but yet you still trying to argue.

Lithion wrote: »

Not trying to argue, I'm legit curious on why so many people hate sexy female characters in games.

And what other girls in this thread has commented is irrelevant with your question and with my answer.
I'm well aware what this threads is about.
I did add my own opinion to the thread, it's on the first page.

George_Black

"I just answered your question about why so many ppl hate sexy female characters"

Hmmm

"I dint think it's about hating sexy female..."

"Triggered"

Hmmm.

Lithion

Zahie wrote: »

Why do you get so triggerd?
I just answerd your question about why so many people hate sexy female characters in games.
I'll repeat myself, I don't think it's about hating sexy female characters pers se, I think its more about disliking the sexual objectifying of femele characters.
If you're not sure what sexual objectification really is, you can read about it here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification

You said you was legitly curious and didn't want to argue, but yet you still trying to argue.

Lithion wrote: »

Not trying to argue, I'm legit curious on why so many people hate sexy female characters in games.

And what other girls in this thread has commented is irrelevant with your question and with my answer.
I'm well aware what this threads is about.
I did add my own opinion to the thread, it's on the first page.

I'm not triggered at all, was just responding to your point with a counter point. I was originally asking why he seemed upset about sexy female characters and then you pointed out that its most likely more about women being sexually objectified. But i disagree that making more feminine armor is the same as objectifying women. Just because a game gives players the option to dress more sexy or in form fitting ways that express more feminine styles, doesn't mean they are trying to sexually objectify women.

Veeshan

When ever i play a female character i always try and go with a cute aesthetic over a sexy one which can be quite hard in some games it would definably be nice to have a variety of clothing thats for sure armor wise and things. by gender choice i choose swaps depending on what i feel like/race/class mix :P or if there an armor set i realy like for x gender

Zahie

Lithion wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

Why do you get so triggerd?
I just answerd your question about why so many people hate sexy female characters in games.
I'll repeat myself, I don't think it's about hating sexy female characters pers se, I think its more about disliking the sexual objectifying of femele characters.
If you're not sure what sexual objectification really is, you can read about it here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification

You said you was legitly curious and didn't want to argue, but yet you still trying to argue.

Lithion wrote: »

Not trying to argue, I'm legit curious on why so many people hate sexy female characters in games.

And what other girls in this thread has commented is irrelevant with your question and with my answer.
I'm well aware what this threads is about.
I did add my own opinion to the thread, it's on the first page.

I'm not triggered at all, was just responding to your point with a counter point. I was originally asking why he seemed upset about sexy female characters and then you pointed out that its most likely more about women being sexually objectified. But i disagree that making more feminine armor is the same as objectifying women. Just because a game gives players the option to dress more sexy or in form fitting ways that express more feminine styles, doesn't mean they are trying to sexually objectify women.

Well if you're not triggerd then it seems you just missunderstod my point.

Why can you not just accept my answer without interpreting things I have not said anything about?
I have never stated that feminine armor is the same as sexual objectifying, nor is form fitted armor. That must have come from your own thoughts?
In fact, I also want feminine and form fitting armor for my female characters but not at an objectifying level, for example when the armor looks like it's just airbrushed on a naked body. But I really don't want to discuss this, it wasn't what I was referring to in my answer.

Since I'm guessing that you didn't understand my point I'll explain it. My point is that some people (myself included) might be concerned about the fact that many game companies are sexually objectifying female characters and they don't want AoC to be one of those games, so just don't assume it's only about hating sexy female characters.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

JustVine

Lithion wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

I don't think it's simply about hate against sexy female characters.
It's more about the sexual objectifying of female game characters and females in general.

So far every girl that has commented has been in favor of making sexy characters though. So who is getting upset about sexualizing's women? Most of this topic isn't about putting women in mini bikinis or anything, just more feminine armor that is form fitting and sexy looking. Wouldn't you agree that most women would like the option to make their character sexy from time to time and feel sexy as they play? If you look back at page one the post by @Leiloni was a good example of sexy but still practical. I'm in agreement that bikini armor is a bit immersion breaking because how does it protect anything lol but I think a lot of this thread is just asking for armor that is more sexy than what we are getting currently. NOT full stripper mode lol

To clarify I (a woman) and many OTHER women here have gone 'I want CHOICE.' We want the option to look sexy AND the option to look 'bad ass'. All of the women have been pretty on message they want choice and they worry about the choice bit.

Some of the people who have not claimed on this thread they are women on the other hand seem to be getting super offended and upset when the 'not as sexy, but bad ass options' are the ones getting represented more. The difference in tone is just kinda 'strange' you know?

You've been a pretty good sport so I'm not saying you are one of said people. But some of the people here I won't name have been acting pretty sus. So in my opinion the person you are responding to seems to be (emotionally) reacting to that vibe from said others. I hope, therefore, you can ignore such a person. Just as I hope @Zahie can recognize you are definitely the wrong person to be arguing with and hopefully just ignore the rest. You've been very reasonable. It's starting to feel like the conversation is once again getting derailed though.

I therefore ask if we can all just get past this and post cool female armor?

Lithion

@Zahie It does indeed seem i misunderstood your intentions and i apologize. The thread up to that point had been pretty united on the point of bikini armor is not what we want but more form fitting and sexy armor that is midway between "a copy of the male armor just shrunken down" and "almost naked" lol so i was under the assumption that you were implying that even the more form fitting sexy looking armor shown in the thread so far could also be considered sexual objectification by some people, which i thought was a drastic leap from "sexy armor just isn't realistic" all the way to "This armor is disrespectful and hurtful to women" and that is why i reacted in that way lol.
I now realize we seem to be pretty much on the same page and you were just trying to give alternate reasons some people may have a negative reaction to mentioning "sexy armor" is that in the industry there is a bad stigma of OVER sexualizing female characters design and armor. I also agree that a lot of people will think of those games when this topic comes up, but i trust that Ashes would never go to that level of sexualization, just as Steven has mentioned.

@JustVine Yea i'm a guy so i can't really speak for girls, but i've always played with lots of girls in many games, and one thing i always hear is that they want the choice to dress sexy when the feel like it. Character cosmetics and character creation is one of my favorite parts of a game and i always make female characters and me and my girl and guy friends do fashion shows and talk about armor designs alot. The main take away i have gotten over the years is that players love CHOICE. I also have been noticing some people seem to be strongly against this topic and that's why I've been trying to ask them their reasoning because i don't really understand why so many people dislike bad ass female armor that looks sexy and combat effective. I also agree there has been too much back and forth and we should get back to just talking about awesome designs!

BTW Erza is amazing and she has so many good armor sets! I might go find some dope armor to post here also

Nelirya

Further to my post earlier and following suit to others who have posted great examples, I would also like to add some examples of armour styles I like from other games. The below styles are from Aion and Lineage 2. I would love to see similar styles available to be achieved in Ashes of Creation.

Aion:

Lineage 2:

Zahie

@Lithion Apology accepted

I also apoligize, I just did a back read and I do understand that it could be easily missunderstod. I'm not always super good to formulate what I mean, especially not in english.
Yes from what i can see we are on the same page. Also, you pointed out exactly what I meant, if only I could have thought of saying it like that from the start. Oh well

Back to the threads topic. Here's some armor aestethics ideas that I, as a female, would love to se on my characters. I'm personally a fan of light and medium armor and really don't like it looking bulky and inflexible.

unknownsystemerror

Lithion

Ok soo i spent a day searching for female armor designs i like and i went a bit overboard lol. I tried to find ones that weren't too skimpy or "bikini armor" but that were also easily distinguishable as "Female" armor. Keep in mind a lot of them have heels which i don't really think is necessary to add but its just the main designs i like besides the heels. Also one or two have like a skimpy bikini shorts but i was thinking those ones just add leather pants and the rest of the design is awesome. I separated the pictures into sections because there's just a ton of pictures lol.
WARNING: A TON OF PICTURES

Heavy Sets

Medium Sets

Light Sets

Casual/Merchant/Artisan Sets

Amist

Well I guess since I'm a female gamer I will throw my opinion in here!

I honestly just like having a lot of options when it comes to my character. To me, sexualization (and thus the chainmail bikini) is not an issue as long as it's equal across genders. It does become troublesome when 'sexual' or provocative armor is made solely for female characters, as (IMO) it caters to an unequal fantasy that is largely perpetuated by gamers having been predominantly male for many years - which is not wrong but I think if we want to cater to a female audience, then there needs to be some variety. I guess what I am trying to get at is making the opportunity for slutty armor be available across the board - for both male and female characters.

In a similar vain I would love to be able to dress my male character in more feminine or soft attire instead of what I would consider to be very masculine warrioresque head to toe plate (I loooooove a good plate set though and intend to have my main be a tank, so it's very much welcome!). That doesn't have to be dresses but having pretty robes, slick leather gear and whatnot could be great and would fit in very well with the Empyrian, Py'rai and Kaelar races!

As long as it has a purpose in the world, fits within the narrative and there's good variety in armor options, I'm happy!

Dygz

I think part of the issue people have with bikini armor is that it shouldn't be able to function as armor because there's not enough of it to protect the revealed skin and body parts.
I mean - men can wear bikini armor, too. Especially in a Barbarian Fantasy setting.

Barbarian fantasy is typically a low magic setting, though.
In a high magic setting, people can get their armor ratings increased via jewelry and a wide variety of Enchantments, rather than from the physical dynamics of their armor.
Some Polynesian, Native American and African cultures would be increasing armor ratings via tattoos and ritual scarrification.

Due to the tattoos and scarrification available in the UE5 Character Creator, I will certainly have Vek and Nikua who wish to display their tattoos and scarrification. Not only will I want to transmog chest pieces to be invisible, I will also want to wear armor and costumes that reveal my tattoos and scarrification.
The devs have said that there will be a variety of armor sets that reveal tattoos.

So.... I definitely now want to see some armor sets and costumes that are revealing.
Especially ones designed to show off tattoos and scarrification.
Revealing is not necesarily the same thing as "sexy".

Amist

Dygz wrote: »

I think part of the issue people have with bikini armor is that it shouldn't be able to function as armor because there's not enough of it to protect the revealed skin and body parts.
I mean - men can wear bikini armor, too. Especially in a Barbarian Fantasy setting.

Barbarian fantasy is typically a low magic setting, though.
In a high magic setting, people can get their armor ratings increased via jewelry and a wide variety of Enchantments, rather than from the physical dynamics of their armor.
Some Polynesian, Native American and African cultures would be increasing armor ratings via tattoos and ritual scarrification.

Due to the tattoos and scarrification available in the UE5 Character Creator, I will certainly have Vek and Nikua who wish to display their tattoos and scarrification. Not only will I want to transmog chest pieces to be invisible, I will also want to wear armor and costumes that reveal my tattoos and scarrification.
The devs have said that there will be a variety of armor sets that reveal tattoos.

So.... I definitely now want to see some armor sets and costumes that are revealing.
Especially ones designed to show off tattoos and scarrification.
Revealing is not necesarily the same thing as "sexy".

I completely agree! It'll be interesting to see what possibilities players will have to show off their scars and tattoos

Neorine

Assless chaps or im out

LogosGreyjoy

Sybil_Lanel wrote: »

As a Female MMO gamer I would like to suggest giving more effeminate options in armor styles. My concern is that I would like to have the option for dressing effeminately. The reason I am suggesting to make it optional is so people can dress as feminine or masculine or neutral as the player choses. This aids players self expression. Different armor styles as well as jewelry and makeup would be very helpful in this goal. I understand that you would like to keep things on the more practical side but this could be stifling to the communities creativity. Self expression and fashion is very important to me as a player I would like as many options as possible in creating my character.

Having the option is the most important thing. Even if you're trying to stay true to "Realism", even in medieval times women had outfits that had sex appeal but wasn't "sexy" it doesn't have to be full of skin but being able to show off your char is important. If your char has tattoos and you cant even show them off what's the point?

Caeryl

If you put those female armor designs on a male character model and it would look silly, then it shouldn’t be on a female model either. All these boob windows and huge armorless gaps for “sexy leg flash” are so damn annoying

I don’t want any significant difference in design between male and female versions. They should be adjusted to fit physical forms, but obviously there shouldn’t be coverage lost from the male > female designs. Outfits that display more skin should be equitable between both sexes, like those shaman costumes. Don’t give me a damn dress for my female characters while the males get a suit when using the same outfit.

TheDarkSorcerer

Kreed wrote: »

As long as they are not as conservative as ESO's female wardrobes. Dont get me wrong ESO had some snappy sharp looking out fits but they still were lacking in Sex appeal.

The ones they did create to have sex appeal were terrible designs.

OMG! Don't get me started on the Bather's Towel costume situation... Or the overly exposed cleavage on the Nocturnal Frock costume... Costumes/armor in general is something Zenimax did pretty poorly of. The silhouettes were simply not flattering, all robes/dresses has a straight cone shape.

I would like to see some sex appeal and beautiful silhouettes for both male and female character. But let's not go the eastern mmo direction where everything is exposed or that you can fight some end level boss in a skimpy bikini..

TheDarkSorcerer

Leiloni wrote: »

Vaknar wrote: »

It's certainly interesting seeing this thread, and others like it come up recently. I think we still have yet to see a large majority of the different gear appearances in the game (whether in-game achievable or cosmetic).

With that said, I think there may be gear sets in the future that please some who are concerned about this! Steven has said he doesn't like the idea of 'bikini armor' but hasn't ruled out form-fitting gear appearances, or more revealing ones ^_^

If you have thoughts on this and you're just happening to see this thread, please feel free to drop your thoughts in a comment!

There's definitely a huge middle ground between Bikini armor and Brienne of Tarth. You can have fashionable armor that covers most or all of a character. I would suggest taking a look at Aion's Chain armor sets for Cleric/Chanter over the years. They've been incredibly creative in making armor that looks like armor but still looks attractive.

Some quick pics I found while searching (note: These look better in game but I can't find real screenshots right now!):

The thighs are a bit ugly on this second one but the rest of the set is nice.

Please god, no 6 inch heels!! But if you reeeally want 6 inch heels on your character, i will advocate for a stam penalty when running! LOL

George_Black

Ok listen here. You are a very small minority that put a derogative twist on the whole thing, a small minority like in actual life.

What other women have said DOES MATTER because it is proof that

Caeryl wrote: »

If you put those female armor designs on a male character model and it would look silly, then it shouldn’t be on a female model either. All these boob windows and huge armorless gaps for “sexy leg flash” are so damn annoying

I don’t want any significant difference in design between male and female versions. They should be adjusted to fit physical forms, but obviously there shouldn’t be coverage lost from the male > female designs. Outfits that display more skin should be equitable between both sexes, like those shaman costumes. Don’t give me a damn dress for my female characters while the males get a suit when using the same outfit.

Take a chill pill

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