Amist wrote: » Well I guess since I'm a female gamer I will throw my opinion in here! I honestly just like having a lot of options when it comes to my character. To me, sexualization (and thus the chainmail bikini) is not an issue as long as it's equal across genders. It does become troublesome when 'sexual' or provocative armor is made solely for female characters, as (IMO) it caters to an unequal fantasy that is largely perpetuated by gamers having been predominantly male for many years - which is not wrong but I think if we want to cater to a female audience, then there needs to be some variety. I guess what I am trying to get at is making the opportunity for slutty armor be available across the board - for both male and female characters. In a similar vain I would love to be able to dress my male character in more feminine or soft attire instead of what I would consider to be very masculine warrioresque head to toe plate (I loooooove a good plate set though and intend to have my main be a tank, so it's very much welcome!). That doesn't have to be dresses but having pretty robes, slick leather gear and whatnot could be great and would fit in very well with the Empyrian, Py'rai and Kaelar races! As long as it has a purpose in the world, fits within the narrative and there's good variety in armor options, I'm happy!
JustVine wrote: » Amist wrote: » Well I guess since I'm a female gamer I will throw my opinion in here! I honestly just like having a lot of options when it comes to my character. To me, sexualization (and thus the chainmail bikini) is not an issue as long as it's equal across genders. It does become troublesome when 'sexual' or provocative armor is made solely for female characters, as (IMO) it caters to an unequal fantasy that is largely perpetuated by gamers having been predominantly male for many years - which is not wrong but I think if we want to cater to a female audience, then there needs to be some variety. I guess what I am trying to get at is making the opportunity for slutty armor be available across the board - for both male and female characters. In a similar vain I would love to be able to dress my male character in more feminine or soft attire instead of what I would consider to be very masculine warrioresque head to toe plate (I loooooove a good plate set though and intend to have my main be a tank, so it's very much welcome!). That doesn't have to be dresses but having pretty robes, slick leather gear and whatnot could be great and would fit in very well with the Empyrian, Py'rai and Kaelar races! As long as it has a purpose in the world, fits within the narrative and there's good variety in armor options, I'm happy! Yeah that's normally my stance on things. Almost word for word. There are definitely games that are pretty good at achieving that kind of aesthetic I still play. There are also definitely games that fail at this 'equalized' balance, I think due to a lack of understanding of degrees of intensity of sexualization for male physique. After all the industry is still male dominated. Most of these design decisions are made by mostly straight men. And so they only understand 'what would be attractive' as informed by 'society' rather than what queer men or straight women might find attractively sexualizing. Where as for the female form what degrees of attractive is far more understood by their preferences and experiences throughout the entire team and there is therefore a lot more gradation in female cosmetics. Part of my cosmetic discontent over the years (and the reason why I am not taking my usual stance you outlined in your post for AoC specificially) though is that many games suck at giving us a decent range of options for the cool/badass side AND the 'softer' side due to a rigidity in design guidelines that sort of wind up with a lazy projection of what qualifies for either design set, and they invariably skew towards 'softer' designs because those sell more or are at least less confusing to the artist making them. It's not always clear to me which given some of the better games for cosmetics are Korean and Japanese. Sexy, badass, but not particularly sexualizing example below. I don't think it's hard to mix the two general style approaches. I don't think it's hard to keep a range of cosmetics serving different style tastes. But with as saturated as the market is with games with a fairly binary approach to female cosmetics styles and usually with less cosmetics in the 'bad ass' and 'nonsexualized' direction, you'd certainly think it was. I'm just tired of games with a false sense of choice. So I really hope IS serves both sides of the market in earnest. It's the 'in earnest part' I think that I have gradually been fed up with over the years since 'after launch' behavior quickly causes one side of the market and usually the same side of that market to dry up in terms of new products down the line. Here's to hoping AoC manages to excel where others have fallen repeatedly.
Caeryl wrote: » If you put those female armor designs on a male character model and it would look silly, then it shouldn’t be on a female model either.
Caeryl wrote: » All these boob windows and huge armorless gaps for “sexy leg flash” are so damn annoying
Caeryl wrote: » I don’t want any significant difference in design between male and female versions. They should be adjusted to fit physical forms,
Caeryl wrote: » but obviously there shouldn’t be coverage lost from the male > female designs. Outfits that display more skin should be equitable between both sexes, like those shaman costumes.
Caeryl wrote: » Don’t give me a damn dress for my female characters while the males get a suit when using the same outfit.
Lithion wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » If you put those female armor designs on a male character model and it would look silly, then it shouldn’t be on a female model either. The armor is gender specific though so male and female armor have different designs, so the female armor wont be going on the males. Also too your point wouldn't the opposite be true also? Armor they design for the men look goofy on women in my opinion. Why should every female character have to dress like the men?
Caeryl wrote: » Don’t give me a damn dress for my female characters while the males get a suit when using the same outfit. What about all the people who want to wear a dress? shouldn't a girl be able to wear dresses or sexy armor if they want? No one in this thread is advocating for all female armor to be dresses and bikini armor. Most of us would just like more feminine armor options once in a while, i also love some more badass thick full cover plate mail too, but i also want more girly looking armor to be able to wear. Were just asking for more choices than just manly looking armor most of the time. Would you agree that having more styles is better, or would you still prefer no dresses or female looking armor? p.s. i do hope we get a dope suit for girls at some point to like a sleek pantsuit or tux
George_Black wrote: » JustVine wrote: » Amist wrote: » Well I guess since I'm a female gamer I will throw my opinion in here! I honestly just like having a lot of options when it comes to my character. To me, sexualization (and thus the chainmail bikini) is not an issue as long as it's equal across genders. It does become troublesome when 'sexual' or provocative armor is made solely for female characters, as (IMO) it caters to an unequal fantasy that is largely perpetuated by gamers having been predominantly male for many years - which is not wrong but I think if we want to cater to a female audience, then there needs to be some variety. I guess what I am trying to get at is making the opportunity for slutty armor be available across the board - for both male and female characters. In a similar vain I would love to be able to dress my male character in more feminine or soft attire instead of what I would consider to be very masculine warrioresque head to toe plate (I loooooove a good plate set though and intend to have my main be a tank, so it's very much welcome!). That doesn't have to be dresses but having pretty robes, slick leather gear and whatnot could be great and would fit in very well with the Empyrian, Py'rai and Kaelar races! As long as it has a purpose in the world, fits within the narrative and there's good variety in armor options, I'm happy! Yeah that's normally my stance on things. Almost word for word. There are definitely games that are pretty good at achieving that kind of aesthetic I still play. There are also definitely games that fail at this 'equalized' balance, I think due to a lack of understanding of degrees of intensity of sexualization for male physique. After all the industry is still male dominated. Most of these design decisions are made by mostly straight men. And so they only understand 'what would be attractive' as informed by 'society' rather than what queer men or straight women might find attractively sexualizing. Where as for the female form what degrees of attractive is far more understood by their preferences and experiences throughout the entire team and there is therefore a lot more gradation in female cosmetics. Part of my cosmetic discontent over the years (and the reason why I am not taking my usual stance you outlined in your post for AoC specificially) though is that many games suck at giving us a decent range of options for the cool/badass side AND the 'softer' side due to a rigidity in design guidelines that sort of wind up with a lazy projection of what qualifies for either design set, and they invariably skew towards 'softer' designs because those sell more or are at least less confusing to the artist making them. It's not always clear to me which given some of the better games for cosmetics are Korean and Japanese. Sexy, badass, but not particularly sexualizing example below. I don't think it's hard to mix the two general style approaches. I don't think it's hard to keep a range of cosmetics serving different style tastes. But with as saturated as the market is with games with a fairly binary approach to female cosmetics styles and usually with less cosmetics in the 'bad ass' and 'nonsexualized' direction, you'd certainly think it was. I'm just tired of games with a false sense of choice. So I really hope IS serves both sides of the market in earnest. It's the 'in earnest part' I think that I have gradually been fed up with over the years since 'after launch' behavior quickly causes one side of the market and usually the same side of that market to dry up in terms of new products down the line. Here's to hoping AoC manages to excel where others have fallen repeatedly. I see the usual political screenplay in your post. How come you havent started a topic titled "We need revealing designs for males?" Who ever told you that you couldnt ask for what you want, instead of bringing in a political spin on "female players want feminine designs (and horny dudes agree)" ? Why dont you start that topic? Seriously, just ask for what you want instead of talking about male dominated this and male dominated that. You just show your true colours.
Caeryl wrote: » Also, most “female armors” posted here have been laughably bad. Drooping necklines to expose the upper torso to attacks. Bare midriffs to expose 80% of vital organs to attacks. Bare thighs and mini skirts that don’t make any sense at all. Heels! Those death traps.
Neorine wrote: » Assless chaps or im out
Lithion wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Also, most “female armors” posted here have been laughably bad. Drooping necklines to expose the upper torso to attacks. Bare midriffs to expose 80% of vital organs to attacks. Bare thighs and mini skirts that don’t make any sense at all. Heels! Those death traps. By that logic there should be no cloth armor either because it clearly cant stop a sword? And everyone should be in full plate right? The whole point is that this isn't the real world, its a fantasy video game lol. There is magic and other protections more than we have here on earth. On earth you need physical material of superior strength to stop incoming damage, yet in Fantasy worlds there is magic and other properties at work. That is why you can have a ring or necklace that boosts your defense by a huge amount. We also have thin cloth that people wear with magical properties that make it able to stop swords and arrows and hammers and anything else. So why does it make a difference that some skin is showing, if magic is the key defining factor? For example, a level 1 suit of full plate armor head to toe wont do anything vs a max level player, yet max level light cloth armor will be tremendously effective against the same opponent. you cant use real world rules in a magic fantasy world where everything works completely different. If you do not like armor that shows skin then don't wear that armor, they shouldn't ban clothing based on a few people not liking it. Its the same in real life, girls can wear revealing outfits all they want, should they be banned from wearing anything revealing also? I'm just saying why should we ban or limit costumes because a few people don't like it? All the costumes don't have to be battle armor anyway, and I'm not advocating for bikini armor. All we want is some more Feminine looking armor options in addition to the stuff we are getting now. P.S. I want to be able to show off my cool tattoos so I definitely would like to show some skin, I'm sure there are plenty of beefy guy characters that would also love to show off some sick scars and tattoos, or else what's the point of the tattoo system lol.
TheDarkSorcerer wrote: » Lithion wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Also, most “female armors” posted here have been laughably bad. Drooping necklines to expose the upper torso to attacks. Bare midriffs to expose 80% of vital organs to attacks. Bare thighs and mini skirts that don’t make any sense at all. Heels! Those death traps. By that logic there should be no cloth armor either because it clearly cant stop a sword? And everyone should be in full plate right? The whole point is that this isn't the real world, its a fantasy video game lol. There is magic and other protections more than we have here on earth. On earth you need physical material of superior strength to stop incoming damage, yet in Fantasy worlds there is magic and other properties at work. That is why you can have a ring or necklace that boosts your defense by a huge amount. We also have thin cloth that people wear with magical properties that make it able to stop swords and arrows and hammers and anything else. So why does it make a difference that some skin is showing, if magic is the key defining factor? For example, a level 1 suit of full plate armor head to toe wont do anything vs a max level player, yet max level light cloth armor will be tremendously effective against the same opponent. you cant use real world rules in a magic fantasy world where everything works completely different. If you do not like armor that shows skin then don't wear that armor, they shouldn't ban clothing based on a few people not liking it. Its the same in real life, girls can wear revealing outfits all they want, should they be banned from wearing anything revealing also? I'm just saying why should we ban or limit costumes because a few people don't like it? All the costumes don't have to be battle armor anyway, and I'm not advocating for bikini armor. All we want is some more Feminine looking armor options in addition to the stuff we are getting now. P.S. I want to be able to show off my cool tattoos so I definitely would like to show some skin, I'm sure there are plenty of beefy guy characters that would also love to show off some sick scars and tattoos, or else what's the point of the tattoo system lol. There is a big difference between showing some skin (off the shoulder, a little cleavage or a little side slit) vs some pictures posted on here that is very oversexualized and honestly inappropriate. Outfits that were only made to sexualize female characters. It's not even sexy, it's actually tacky AND OUTDATED. And I don't think a character wearing 6 inch heels running around in a forest, on mud, or on ice is fitting, even in a fantasy game.
TheDarkSorcerer wrote: » There is a big difference between showing some skin (off the shoulder, a little cleavage or a little side slit) vs some pictures posted on here that is very oversexualized and honestly inappropriate. Outfits that were only made to sexualize female characters. It's not even sexy, it's actually tacky AND OUTDATED. And a character wearing 6 inch heels running around in a forest, on mud, or on ice is not fitting, even in a fantasy game.
Nelirya wrote: » Seems like I am a little late to the party, but as usual, I do love when this topic comes up for discussion! I am a female gamer and I very much enjoy my character to represent a "fantasy" version of myself in the games I play. What I mean specifically by a fantasy version of myself is the way I want to dress/style my character. In the real, everyday world I am not able to go out wearing a form-fitting dress that makes me look and feel like a fierse, badass, sexy magician (apart from on Halloween perhaps). However, in a high fantasy world like Ashes of Creation, I think that this type of look should definitely be possible and an option for players to achieve. I do not for a moment believe that the only way female characters can be viewed as "strong" and "powerful" is by having them dressed/designed in armour that is large, bulky, flat shoed and all-covering. I have definitely seen this viewpoint being shared before, and I really do disagree. Many females (myself included) actually feel empowered by having a choice to dress/style our characters in form-fitting, more revealing and even high heel styled armours. It allows us to represent ourselves in the way we want to be seen. The most important point is CHOICE. I would just like to copy-paste what I said in a similar topic before: I firmly believe that diversity and variation in armour/cosmetic styles in games is a good thing, and allows people to create characters that they like the look of to represent them. As long as there are options for both fully covering, non form-fitting (loose?), flat shoe/boots and then also more form-fitting, revealing, high-heel shoe/boots etc. that people can choose between - then why should this ever be seen as a problem? Although some people personally may not like one or the other style, why should others not be able to use them?
Lithion wrote: » Zahie wrote: » I don't think it's simply about hate against sexy female characters. It's more about the sexual objectifying of female game characters and females in general. So far every girl that has commented has been in favor of making sexy characters though. So who is getting upset about sexualizing's women? Most of this topic isn't about putting women in mini bikinis or anything, just more feminine armor that is form fitting and sexy looking. Wouldn't you agree that most women would like the option to make their character sexy from time to time and feel sexy as they play? If you look back at page one the post by @Leiloni was a good example of sexy but still practical. I'm in agreement that bikini armor is a bit immersion breaking because how does it protect anything lol but I think a lot of this thread is just asking for armor that is more sexy than what we are getting currently. NOT full stripper mode lol
Zahie wrote: » I don't think it's simply about hate against sexy female characters. It's more about the sexual objectifying of female game characters and females in general.
234Graph wrote: » Lithion wrote: » Zahie wrote: » I don't think it's simply about hate against sexy female characters. It's more about the sexual objectifying of female game characters and females in general. So far every girl that has commented has been in favor of making sexy characters though. So who is getting upset about sexualizing's women? Most of this topic isn't about putting women in mini bikinis or anything, just more feminine armor that is form fitting and sexy looking. Wouldn't you agree that most women would like the option to make their character sexy from time to time and feel sexy as they play? If you look back at page one the post by @Leiloni was a good example of sexy but still practical. I'm in agreement that bikini armor is a bit immersion breaking because how does it protect anything lol but I think a lot of this thread is just asking for armor that is more sexy than what we are getting currently. NOT full stripper mode lol Let's be honest, all those people could be men posing as women.
234Graph wrote: » Let's be honest, all those people could be men posing as women.
RyanTheSiren wrote: » Agreed. Been playing MMORPGs my whole life, and in every game I'd say that 80% of my friends/guildmembers are women. Most of them LOVE the more feminine/skimpy outfits and costumes and mogs. The only thing they dislike is when skimpy clothes are the ONLY option for female characters. I kind of am tired of seeing guys on these forums be so adamantly against "revealing" or "feminine" armor or cosmetics, like the Devs should listen to the ladies on this matter IMO. Makeup is another thing that many games don't really put any effort into adding into the character creator that I see get a lot of flack from female players. The key thing in both cases in options, for male and female both.
Deftly wrote: » I don't think the devs should only listen to women on this matter because I play female characters as well. This doesn't need to be a man vs woman thing. Just make it flexible so everyone gets what they want. There are some women who play male characters, and I couldn't see myself saying, " they don't get a say in this."
Nelirya wrote: » We COULD be. Or goodness forbid, we could be women who are expressing our honest opinions, imagine that?
