Mutual protection in Convoys

For those who don't know, a convoy is defined as "a group of ships or vehicles traveling together, typically accompanied by armed troops, warships, or other vehicles for protection." The reason I bring this up is fairly simple; nobody seems to talk about the concept of multiple caravans traveling together for mutual protection.

I can see some immediate benefits to caravans working together. They'd be capable of pooling resources to hire long-distance guards to protect the convoy, which guarantees large payouts for defenders without putting any extra pressure on the caravan masters themselves. I could even see agreements being made between guilds of traders and mercenary guilds for a protection pact sort of thing. The way this'd affect bandits is interesting as well, as it'd necessarily mean they have to focus on lone caravans or stragglers from a larger convoy that's fallen out of the protective blanket of the guards. The one exception is if you've got a large enough organization of bandits for hitting large convoys in a massive pile of violence, though part of me expects that to be more difficult to organize.

The especially fun part of this concept, to me, is how it incentivizes organization and planning, something that can be used against you in exactly the kind of subterfuge and espionage system the game is looking to encourage.

What do you think?

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Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

I don't thinkk there will be opposing Caravans in the same location.

There is literally no way they can prevent this from happening.

Dygz

Yeah, they can. Caravans are scheduled. And paths are chosen.

superhero6785

Dygz wrote: »

I think the dev design is, you choose either attack or defend. Those who do so are flagged Purple/Combatant.
If you cancel the pop-up, you remain Green/Non-Combatant.

I don't thinkk there will be opposing Caravans in the same location.
A Convoy would be all the same faction, so, you can't really attack one Caravan in the Convoy and defend a different one.
A Convoy would be similar to choosing sides in a Siege. You would either be attacking the Convoy or defending the Convoy. Or not participating.

Exactly, Steven said it is essentially a "faction war". You choose to be on the side of "Caravan Attacker" or "Caravan Defender", regardless of which (or how many) caravans it is. I don't think you'll get an option for each caravan, just a generic "Hey, you're in a caravan zone, do you want to join?" and if caravan zones overlap, then you'll be included in them all the same.

As for the benefits of a Convoy, it's definitely something that will benefit those who are organized enough to do so. Likewise, those looking to be Thieves will benefit for finding Convoys and focusing their efforts on taking down an entire Convoy rather than just one caravan. Assuming there is a 50/50 split of people who want to play Attackers & Defenders, then engaging in a Convoy doesn't necessarily mean you'll outnumber the attackers, it just means the attackers will have to coordinate in a similar fashion to all attack together in order to match the Convoy's numbers.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Yeah, they can. Caravans are scheduled. And paths are chosen.

This only applies to quest driven caravans, not mayoral or personal caravans.

Percimes

1) Form a caravan.
2) Hire a few dummy wagons with no valuables inside.
3) Form a convoy.
4) If attacked, the dummy wagons slow down to draw the bandits, the one(s) with the real good speed away!
5) Bandits loot twigs and pebbles.
6) Profit?

tautau

@Halae Excellent idea.

There will be caravans starting in Nodes and also from Freeholds (personal caravans). The Mayors of nodes may well coordinate together and freehold owners may join in. If letters represent nodes and numbers represent freeholds, then....

1 3 5 7 9
A ----> B

> C

> D
2 4 6 8

1 and 2 can go to A, join the A caravan which travels to B and picks up B, 3, 4, 5 and all together go to C, picking up 7, 8, 9, & C and together they all travel to the destination node D, protecting each other.

The advantage is much stronger defensive strength, as the OP mentioned. One disadvantage is that the more people who know about it, the more likely that the plans will be leaked.

Of course, fake plans might be leaked, perhaps saying that the caravan leaves at 1 PM while it really leaves at 9 AM. All of which makes the game more fun.

EDIT formatting didn't work as I hoped, I hope it makes sense from the description.

Voidwalkers

Percimes wrote: »

1) Form a caravan.
2) Hire a few dummy wagons with no valuables inside.
3) Form a convoy.
4) If attacked, the dummy wagons slow down to draw the bandits, the one(s) with the real good speed away!
5) Bandits loot twigs and pebbles.
6) Profit?

- Caravans do take components to craft, so even dummy wagons have a cost. We don't know how much yet, but I'd assume it's not dirt cheap, or else nobody will be bothered to craft the components.

- Because of that it's likely not worth it to have dummies unless you're transporting something very very very valuable, like a truck full of enchanted mithril & ancient dragon scales etc.

- And because of that, a convoy of caravans basically becomes a big flashy sign yelling "Hello valuables here"

- And therefore any sensible bandits who spot the convoy would likely immediately ping their bandit guild in slack / discord, quietly follow the caravan, guess its path / destination, setup a sizable ambush, and profit.

btw I'm also wondering what would happen if multiple caravans cluster together though.

Do we get a one attack/defend popup for each caravan when we go near them? (hence cluttering the UI and also increase the risk of mis-clicking)

Do they automatically get grouped somehow (one attack/defend window for all caravans within range)?

But what if those caravans happen to be from different parties who're unfriendly towards each other?

Example 1 - I happen to have scheduled a caravan on the same path at the same time with my competitor / rival, transporting materials from the nearby economic node to my home science node for crafting. I have hired mercs players to help defend my caravan, and we run into bandit players. I'd definitely want my mercs to defend my wagon while ignoring my competitor's, or even bargain with / misdirect the bandits to trash it.

Example 2 - I know that a rich guild have scheduled a high value caravan, and have hired mercs to protect it. I also happen to need to send a caravan to the same destination, so I schedule a caravan at the same time on the same path to get a free ride of the mercs. Would the guild / mercs have a way to deny me of free protection?

... Or may be caravan senders / drivers can form parties and manually group their caravans?

Dygz

Not supposed to be able to zerg a Caravan like that.
But, we'd also expect there to be a great deal of defenders for a Convoy - especially, NPC defenders.

Songcaller

Dygz wrote: »

Not supposed to be able to zerg a Caravan like that.
But, we'd also expect there to be a great deal of defenders for a Convoy - especially, NPC defenders.

Convoy confirmed?

Lithion

This would be a good question to ask for next stream! Would love to know if intrepid has a way to have different guilds "hitch their wagons" so to speak and all form one massive convoy and if there will be integrated game systems to help with this or if this will be impossible. Hopefully there isn't a limit to how close two caravans can be to each other when all sending caravans at the same time.

Dygz

Neurath wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Not supposed to be able to zerg a Caravan like that.
But, we'd also expect there to be a great deal of defenders for a Convoy - especially, NPC defenders.

Convoy confirmed?

Nope.

Percimes

@Voidwalkers Which is why I put a "?" after profit

Caravan components can't be too expensive either. It would reduce the profit for successful delivery, and multiply the loses if lost in transport.

Dummy wagons don't need to carry worthless junks (my example was an exaggeration for comedic purpose), simply goods of lesser value. If they reach their destination they could generate profit too, but if the convoy lost one or two and the main golden wagon gets away safely, they could be worth the sacrifice.

neuroguy

The game should absolutely not provide formal support for convoys. Not because it's not a good idea, but because players should be able to put together simple game mechanics in complex ways on their own. If you organize something like simultaneously moving caravans, there is a lot of potential for conflict, back-stabbing etc. But if you formalize it, it does not feel as clever or risky to pull off or sabotage, or it may outright not allow it.

That being said, I think caravans should have a radius around them preventing other caravans from coexisting in that same space to avoid janky protection/attacking decisions. This would still allow a patrolling defensive unit to be collectively hired by the convoy and allows for interesting offensive decisions (trying to split the defense up).

Vaknar

Could you imagine several ship convoys out at sea when a guild and their alliances come to raid them.. 😱🏴‍☠️ It would be a bloodbath!!

Man, I can't wait to be a pirate at sea in Ashes of Creation, lol!

Voxtrium

@neuroguy I completely disagree, convoys add a layer than if properly implemented can provide meaningful gameplay. I can join a convoy and have the other half of my guild raid said convoy halfway through in a backstab manner and just not defend it, or i can do standard caravan stuff, its all a part of the game, and not allowing convoys near each other is removing a potentially complex and unique dynamic to the game.

neuroguy

Voxtrium wrote: »

@neuroguy I completely disagree, convoys add a layer than if properly implemented can provide meaningful gameplay. I can join a convoy and have the other half of my guild raid said convoy halfway through in a backstab manner and just not defend it, or i can do standard caravan stuff, its all a part of the game, and not allowing convoys near each other is removing a potentially complex and unique dynamic to the game.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with here. I think they are a fun idea, just not to be formally supported with in-game menus and NPCs. If you disagree with not having caravans close to each other you can read the rest of the thread about what problems that may cause and I can think of loads more. The idea of convoys is not killed by this mutually exclusive radius, it makes implementation easier and players more capable of predicting how they may/may not interact with it.

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