Healing

I was just wondering if i am the only one that wants healing to be restricted to the cleric primary or secondary? The reason i think this would be best is for the following.
1) if you give other classes heals it makes that class have an edge over other classes. One can burst a person down and blink away and heal and then come back.
2) WOW brought out what happens when u have to many classes that can heal. Made mages indestructible. rogues could stealth and heal them selves. Ret pallys could off heal. It made DPS classes way more tank to almost the point of not needing a tank. To be frank the amount of healing is what ruined that game.
3) u still have 16 classes that would have heals although the cleric secondary heals should be weaker. This is more than enough i feel.
Feel free to disagree. this is more of a debate.

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BlackBrony

You have 8 classes and only one of those can heal? Isn't that way too low?

Ludullu

BlackBrony wrote: »

You have 8 classes and only one of those can heal? Isn't that way too low?

You have 15 classes that can provide healing and maybe another 7 that can heal too. I'd say that's quite enough.

Songcaller

Warlocks can also heal, however, I'm not sure Dygz has heard of a Temptation Warlock. I stuck the warlock heals on the spell book to give warlock players options. Wow has caused lore problems but of course, Ashes has lore too hehe.

Dygz

Temptation Warlock is irrevelant.
In Ashes, a Warlock is a Mage/Summoner. It's unlikely Warlocks will have much healing. Could be possible through a Support Summons augment. But...it's highly unlikely.

Songcaller

It is not a class option because I can not be bothered to argue with you for 50 posts. Whether it will be an augment option from religious node remains to be seen.

Azherae

Healing is the place I have the most concern relative to freedom of choice in Ashes for the standard player.

Because Healers are probably the least 'forgiven' class for 'I can't, I didn't take that skill'.

Of course, 'peer pressure' has nothing to do with actual design options, so it's hard to say what will happen. I do hope that Clerics aren't going to just 'be expected to have every available skill' or 'have every available heal/cleanse skill and therefore forego any damage skills' in order to be considered 'viable'.

I would say 'as a Cleric' but mostly it isn't likely to affect me since my group is used to my style already. Hopefully we'll at least see some different styles of healer having better synergies with different styles of Tank.

Songcaller

You will not have such combinations. All classes must function individually and together. On top of that, various augments will change skills through personal choice. If I create a game which states 'Play how you want' and then start locking certain classes to bis with certain other classes, that is not playing how one wants.

Azherae

Neurath wrote: »

You will not have such combinations. All classes must function individually and together. On top of that, various augments will change skills through personal choice. If I create a game which states 'Play how you want' and then start locking certain classes to bis with certain other classes, that is not playing how one wants.

I don't think that I'd personally appreciate the levels of homogenization required for this to work, considering my collected data on your previous designs, so I guess I'm saying to Intrepid that if they aren't taking explicit feedback (i.e. 'do this, don't do that') I'll still hope for slower damage and more statuses, so that the 'window of forgiveness' is more open at least outside of 'top end content'.

And that does include 'accepting that certain styles/builds of Cleric only work well with certain Tank types.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

Of course, 'peer pressure' has nothing to do with actual design options, so it's hard to say what will happen. I do hope that Clerics aren't going to just 'be expected to have every available skill' or 'have every available heal/cleanse skill and therefore forego any damage skills' in order to be considered 'viable'.

I'd hope there's no "pick this skill or this skill". Yes, we'll be able to choose augments, but I'd assume we'll have all the skills the archetype should have and only then add stuff onto them. Let those augments add/change whatever effects they want, but make the core function the same.

At least that way any cleric can do their job, so there won't be some complete discrimination of "if you don't have this - you're not welcomed in any party", while the uniqueness and personality of each person remains shown through their choice of additional effects on the skillset.

Songcaller

We have an official line that classes must function in group content, large scale pvp and have counters.

Personal fancies do not come into my combat plans at all.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Of course, 'peer pressure' has nothing to do with actual design options, so it's hard to say what will happen. I do hope that Clerics aren't going to just 'be expected to have every available skill' or 'have every available heal/cleanse skill and therefore forego any damage skills' in order to be considered 'viable'.

I'd hope there's no "pick this skill or this skill". Yes, we'll be able to choose augments, but I'd assume we'll have all the skills the archetype should have and only then add stuff onto them. Let those augments add/change whatever effects they want, but make the core function the same.

At least that way any cleric can do their job, so there won't be some complete discrimination of "if you don't have this - you're not welcomed in any party", while the uniqueness and personality of each person remains shown through their choice of additional effects on the skillset.

Intrepid has explicitly said that you won't be able to choose every skill in the game for an Archetype.

Alpha-1 also encouraged specifics. You could unlock every skill but not necessarily level every skill up effectively. My point is that I would like Clerics to be able to reasonably 'just not take certain healing skills'. I'm sure it will be acceptable to not take certain damage skills.

As of now, 'having to choose which skills to have', possibly even to the point of 'definitely can't even unlock certain ones' is in the design. Exactly how that will play out in future is unclear, but I definitely 'chose skills not to unlock' in Alpha-1.

Azherae

Neurath wrote: »

We have an official line that classes must function in group content, large scale pvp and have counters.

Personal fancies do not come into my combat plans at all.

(insert obnoxious and sarcastic superiority complex comment here - literally anything will do)

Songcaller

If you are a dev, why can't you build the rainbow raid game?

Azherae

Neurath wrote: »

If you are a dev, why can't you build the rainbow raid game?

Um... you might want to be careful about throwing that particular combination of words around.

I'm not really sure if you're aware of its meaning, and if you ARE, then you can fuck right off I guess?

EDIT: If you are not, and you change your post, then I'll change this one to remove any indication that you said this.

Songcaller

I have put healing spells in the spell book. In my mind, that means anyone can heal. Furthermore, augments will change effects. What more do you want?

Buddhist monks used the rainbow as an ancient symbol and Buddhist monks did rainbow raids.

Thank you for your understanding and patience,
Neurath.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

Intrepid has explicitly said that you won't be able to choose every skill in the game for an Archetype.

Alpha-1 also encouraged specifics. You could unlock every skill but not necessarily level every skill up effectively. My point is that I would like Clerics to be able to reasonably 'just not take certain healing skills'. I'm sure it will be acceptable to not take certain damage skills.

As of now, 'having to choose which skills to have', possibly even to the point of 'definitely can't even unlock certain ones' is in the design. Exactly how that will play out in future is unclear, but I definitely 'chose skills not to unlock' in Alpha-1.

U rite. I completely forgot about that. Well then here's hoping they can design all abilities well enough for there to be no concrete meta. I know that's almost impossible, but still. A lot will also depend on how often/expensive the SP re-attribution will be.

Though at the end, it all comes down to "find a party that suits your own style and that accepts that style as one of their own". And if you can't find a party like that - make one. Back in L2 I played a more physical build of a phys-mage class, while pretty much 95% of all the other players of that class went with an absolutely dumb 0 IQ "2 buttons" mage build. But due to my own skill I could always reassure my party members that my build worked as well, if not even better than the other one. I'd assume we'll be able to do the same in Ashes.

Taleof2Cities

NiKr wrote: »

I'd hope there's no "pick this skill or this skill". Yes, we'll be able to choose augments, but I'd assume we'll have all the skills the archetype should have and only then add stuff onto them. Let those augments add/change whatever effects they want, but make the core function the same.

At least that way any cleric can do their job, so there won't be some complete discrimination of "if you don't have this - you're not welcomed in any party", while the uniqueness and personality of each person remains shown through their choice of additional effects on the skillset.

Most MMOs have a respec option, @NiKr ... where you can change your skills around for a modest fee.

The Wiki says Ashes players are able to reallocate skill points.

Songcaller

To show no bias here is my lgbt products I stock. Not advertisement and not available beyond my territory.

20220527_001248.jpg

Songcaller

I first wish to apologise to my business owners and clarify that the American owners also have no bias.

Nerror

Azherae wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

If you are a dev, why can't you build the rainbow raid game?

Um... you might want to be careful about throwing that particular combination of words around.

I'm not really sure if you're aware of its meaning, and if you ARE, then you can fuck right off I guess?

EDIT: If you are not, and you change your post, then I'll change this one to remove any indication that you said this.

I have no idea what that means and now I am really curious. What does it mean?

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