Here is how you make people like your Combat

*This is NOT a discussion on how to make good combat. Pls read the post

So Intrepid wants to do a big combat reveal and make people stop complaining about it, here is how you make the gaming masses and media like your combat with 3 steps:

- add good looking epic camera and particle effects
- add big camera shaking effect on hits specially on big damage spells
- add brutal sound effects and snappy animations to go along with camera shake/effects

*make all this optional with a sliders to turn off so people that don't like that don't complain about it

Gamers are a bit stupid, and often have no idea what they want or what they are talking about, so it won't really matter if the combat feels and plays nice if it doesn't look good, if you did that in Alpha 1 with that basic clunky combat people would say it's good based on looks.

Not convinced? have a look at this video https://youtu.be/38l-lxIa82g I've seen so many people that have no idea how that game or that combat works yet blindly say the combat is awesome because it looks cool..

Now, if you want to make Actual good combat, that's a whole different story, this is just an easy way to appeal to the public.

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Ludullu

Marcet wrote: »

Even with your predictable attempt to ridicule the game to the point I don't want to play it, I'm gonna play it.

So my reverse psychology tricked worked. Great.

Okeydoke

Having played BDO, I already know that I view that combat as one of the worst I've ever experienced. I also watched that video, so eastern, so over dramatized, might as well be watching Dragonball Z. Video does nothing for me, turns me off of the combat more than anything.

Fully on board with the OP's thought though. If you need to spruce things up with some over the top effects, by all means, trick the ignorant masses.

Edit: As long as there's sliders so I can turn that nonsense off.

bloodprophet

I understand where your coming from and a lot of the mindless masses fall for videos like this. How many of the people that fall for this kind of thing stick around longer then a month or two? Just from all the stuff around the two latest big name products that came out recently that had a huge in flux of players for the first month or two then a massive drop off due to various things like lack of depth in the systems after you get passed the super flashy newness of the games.

That said videos like this are exactly why I skipped BDO and Lost Ark nothing says fun to me like rounding up the entire zone and AOE'ing everything down in super exciting particle effects, camera shake and over the top Kung Fu movie style flashy moves with zero consequences. Stuff like the video will work on some and turn off others.

Is it better to sucker people in with misleading videos that are not a true representation of the combat system with flashy stuff or show what you are actually doing/have? Tough call lots of people are suckered in by flashing lights with little to no substance.

Azherae

bloodprophet wrote: »

I understand where your coming from and a lot of the mindless masses fall for videos like this. How many of the people that fall for this kind of thing stick around longer then a month or two? Just from all the stuff around the two latest big name products that came out recently that had a huge in flux of players for the first month or two then a massive drop off due to various things like lack of depth in the systems after you get passed the super flashy newness of the games.

That said videos like this are exactly why I skipped BDO and Lost Ark nothing says fun to me like rounding up the entire zone and AOE'ing everything down in super exciting particle effects, camera shake and over the top Kung Fu movie style flashy moves with zero consequences. Stuff like the video will work on some and turn off others.

Is it better to sucker people in with misleading videos that are not a true representation of the combat system with flashy stuff or show what you are actually doing/have? Tough call lots of people are suckered in by flashing lights with little to no substance.

I'd figure that Ashes would just use the same method to 'sell' the concept that they want instead. Their previous stuff did look something like that, right? But BDO has the 'good sense' to never show any PvP in trailers like that. Wouldn't want to remind people that they might get stomped by someone else playing the same class but better than them.

Showing the right 'big bosses', 'Node Siege', etc, and using all the flashy particle effects that Ashes already has, but giving a more representative slice of their own gameplay, could probably do the job quite well. E.g. by contrast the Throne and Liberty trailer which is much much better.

Dygz

Marcet wrote: »

Really? the cosmetics represent the items and mobs in the game? wow never thought about that. Then why not show the actual items and mobs, not a representation?

What’s the difference between skins and items when we can’t play the game yet??

What they are showing us are the differences between the 2D concept art and the 3D models.

And they aren’t showing us a bunch of stuff we haven’t seen in concept art because they don’t want us to become jaded even before Alpha 2.

When they start showing us combat, we should be expecting Alpha 2 to drop 3-4 months later.

bloodprophet

Never saw the trailer till just now. It does a good job provoking emotional interest and meets the idea of getting people to look further into the product. It does look interesting and does a good job of show casing cinematics and some game play footage. I agree with this approach as it makes good marketing sense and will get clicks and will probably garner more customers.

I think they will do stuff like this and probably should in their own way. Showcasing the highlights of what Ashes is.

"But BDO has the 'good sense' to never show any PvP in trailers like that. Wouldn't want to remind people that they might get stomped by someone else playing the same class but better than them."

Sunny side of the truth can be good and bad. Look at what New World showed vs what is. My main hope here is they show the good with out over embellishing it to the point, 2 weeks after launch videos start coming out talking about all the misdirection they did to get customers.

Okeydoke

bloodprophet wrote: »

My main hope here is they show the good with out over embellishing it to the point, 2 weeks after launch videos start coming out talking about all the misdirection they did to get customers.

Yeah we fully expect a business that is marketing a product to "dress" it up some. Wouldn't want to see it dressed up so much though that it's looked at as outright deception.

Noaani

As others have hinted at, it isnt in an MMORPG's best interest to just try and mass market to everyone. A game like Ashes needs to market to people that are likely to enjoy playing Ashes.

I expect Ashes to have about a million players at launch, and settle at around 250 - 300k by the end of the first year. I would consider this a successful and fairly health launch.

If the game mass markets and I stead attracts 5 million players at launch and then still drops down to that same 250 - 300k after a year, it would be a disaster.

The difference between these two is a game retaining 25% of its launch player could, vs a game retaining 5% of its launch player count. One is expected by both players and media - the other would signal that something is wrong.

Sure, they made more money for a month or two, and had to open up a whole lot of additional servers, but it would hasten the server mergers that need to happen.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

As others have hinted at, it isnt in an MMORPG's best interest to just try and mass market to everyone. A game like Ashes needs to market to people that are likely to enjoy playing Ashes.

That makes no sense at all, every single company wants as many people interested in their product as possible - and if intrepid didn't want to appeal to the general public, they wouldn't be trying to make their character art and environments, as well as combat look good this early on, Steven himself said the combat reveal will be a big reveal and he wants people to have a good impression. The character creator and weather systems are proof as they want to impress people with the looks as well as the content, and for that, the point I made is still valid.

NishUK

Liniker wrote: »

That makes no sense at all

Dygz and Noanni are HEAVILY biased toward PvE only so it makes sense ;/

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

As others have hinted at, it isnt in an MMORPG's best interest to just try and mass market to everyone. A game like Ashes needs to market to people that are likely to enjoy playing Ashes.

That makes no sense at all, every single company wants as many people interested in their product as possible

No company wants the stigma of losing 95% of their playerbase in the first 3 months. The game will be known as a game that cant hold on to its players, and automatically loses any notion of word of mouth as an advertising tool.

This loss of population as a percentage will literally kill a game.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

No company wants the stigma of losing 95% of their playerbase in the first 3 months. The game will be known as a game that cant hold on to its players, and automatically loses any notion of word of mouth as an advertising tool.

This loss of population as a percentage will literally kill a game.

I'm confused... do you seriously believe a company would refrain from doing marketing and appealing to a wider public due to fear of not having a good player retention...?

even tho intrepid Already hired a whole marketing and social media team that precisely plan their reveals and recently put a great effort into their character creator/weather systems to showcase well to the public - and I'm only here talking about them doing the Same with combat; making it look good

akabear

One thing I quite enjoyed about War of the Roses & Age of Conan combat was the special moves that kicked in for certain kills!

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

No company wants the stigma of losing 95% of their playerbase in the first 3 months. The game will be known as a game that cant hold on to its players, and automatically loses any notion of word of mouth as an advertising tool.

This loss of population as a percentage will literally kill a game.

I'm confused... do you seriously believe a company would refrain from doing marketing and appealing to a wider public due to fear of not having a good player retention...?

Yes.

Still confused?

Voxtrium

@Liniker Any company will strive for profits your absolutely right. However you mistakenly think 2 months of profit from 5 million players is greater than 5 or 10 years of profit from 250-300 that @Noaani indicated. That is also assuming the player base never grows. Companies with profit models like AOC make the majority of their income from the top 5% of cosmetic spending players believe it or not.

Now it is arguable because you have to jump to some conclusions however, assuming 5 million enter AOC at launch and 250k stay, that means the likelihood your player base ever grows is significantly decreased and you will create a headache of server issues both on launch and the following months as merges begin, each of these issues will be things players decide to leave for. Games have lived for a long time on their hardcore player base alone, but that is something a game like AOC will struggle to do more so than other games because the very nature of their game requires casuals to prop the systems for development and trade.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

Yes.

Still confused?

Nah, you just don't know what you are talking about but that's ok 😅 You can think whatever you want, they know what they are doing so they Will try to make the combat look as good as possible and use it as marketing, same as they did in the last livestream

I just pointed out some easy ways to do what they already will for certain try to keep doing.

Dygz

NishUK wrote: »

Dygz and Noanni are HEAVILY biased toward PvE only so it makes sense ;/

LMFAO. No.
You do not accurately mirror back what my perspective is.

Dygz

Otr wrote: »

I am new here but just reading a bit on forum I had the feeling that the game was meant to be PvP only, from the very begining. There was a kickstarter too where this was clearly agreed with backers?
It makes no sense to me somebody to join later and lobby for a change of direction.
I also mention these cross-realm zones but because I am afraid what happens if this aspect is not considered or underestimated. But I respect the initial agreement and developer's vision.
I played and enjoyed MMOs where cross-realm was not possible. Things can be fun if the game is designed properly.

If you're talking about Ashes - Ashes has always been PvX.

Dygz

Liniker wrote: »

Nah, you just don't know what you are talking about but that's ok 😅 You can think whatever you want, they know what they are doing so they Will try to make the combat look as good as possible and use it as marketing, same as they did in the last livestream

I just pointed out some easy ways to do what they already will for certain try to keep doing.

LMAO
You don't know what you are talking about.
"As good as possible" is so broad as to be meaningless. So there is no way to evaluate what "as good as possible" means.
All devs try to make their games as good as possible.

Liniker

Dygz wrote: »

LMAO
You don't know what you are talking about.

Aren't you the same person that said on my previous post, that intrepid's tweets showing the cosmetics don't have anything to do with marketing and are just fun interaction with the community? lol

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