Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
I am not sure what you mean by PvE servers... No PvP at all or consensual PvP only? Anyway, it is hard to see that PvP aspect would be removed entirely even in these theoretical PvE servers because planned dynamic events such sieges and caravans. However, the world would work fine with consensual PvP which is more realistic wish. Anyhow, IF a such PvE server would be implemented then I would like to see a hardcore PvP server as well.
Actually, this is exactly what Fractured is working on atm. They will have three different planets, PvE, PvX and PvP to cater three different playstyles. However, these planets are not own servers and instead part of the same game world. It is interesting to follow how well that goes. Surprise surprise, it is the PvX planet which rules have changed several times and causes constant debate.
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
I am not sure what you mean by PvE servers... No PvP at all or consensual PvP only? Anyway, it is hard to see that PvP aspect would be removed entirely even in these theoretical PvE servers because planned dynamic events such sieges and caravans. However, the world would work fine with consensual PvP which is more realistic wish. Anyhow, IF a such PvE server would be implemented then I would like to see a hardcore PvP server as well.
Actually, this is exactly what Fractured is working on atm. They will have three different planets, PvE, PvX and PvP to cater three different playstyles. However, these planets are not own servers and instead part of the same game world. It is interesting to follow how well that goes. Surprise surprise, it is the PvX planet which rules have changed several times and causes constant debate.
Consensual PvP only.
Everyone keeps saying the game is designed for PvX and I get that. You can have the mandatory PVP associated with the things that would require it such as node sieges and the PVP zone around caravans, etc. Without having the full open world flagging. Corruption can still be a thing, it could come into play if someone goes on an NPC killing spree or something.
If ashes launches and has 20 servers to choose from and 2-4 are for the people that don't care for PvP but want to play the game, then let them play there. Why should the other 80% of players care how that 20% portion wants to play?
In my opinion saying it shouldn't be there is similar to me saying non combat pets are dumb, and just a waste, and not how the game should be played.... 80% of the population doesn't walk around with them anyways, only 20% collect and enjoy them, but I don't want them to enjoy themselves over there...
And to the people saying stuff like
"You are selfish for not willing to offer a bit of fun to PvP-ers." and "You would not be there for me to PK". Those are the exact reasons some people want the PvE servers, to get away from players that act like that.
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
Only reason i argue against it is most people's experience with open pvp comes from games like wow where it servered no purpose and was more of a little things the devs allowed then part of the game. They will choose a server based off that experience in another game instead of understanding it's role in the game or how the system will change their overall experience.
The flagging system is an intended part of the game and i'd rather people experience before we make make servers that shift away from the games original design.
Now that argument I completely understand. People have a bad taste in their mouth and just want to stay away from it could be missing out. But still that is on them. And how does giving a player that choice effect you? It's not changing the PvX design.
Giving them a PvE server wouldn't change your experience on the true PvX server. So why care what they do?
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
You mean waste studio resources for pve servers? Why.. then let's waste resources for rp servers. And let's waste resources for survival pvp servers. And let's waste resources for faction pvp servers. And let's waste resources for no cosmetic servers. And let's waste resoyrces for no pve no pvp but only crafting servers.
It affects ppl. It affects the quality of the product and customer experience.
10
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
You mean waste studio resources for pve servers? Why.. then let's waste resources for rp servers. And let's waste resources for survival pvp servers. And let's waste resources for faction pvp servers. And let's waste resources for no cosmetic servers. And let's waste resoyrces for no pve no pvp but only crafting servers.
It affects ppl. It affects the quality of the product and customer experience.
Lol
Nobody said any of that... But sure...
If they're doing 20 servers, they're doing 20 servers. Dedicating a few to a different group isn't going to make those servers drain resources from the others. Thinking so is just silly.
Honestly, if anything it would make the quality of player on the PvX servers more pure and intune with the game... Sounds like an improvement to customer experience to me.
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
You mean waste studio resources for pve servers? Why.. then let's waste resources for rp servers. And let's waste resources for survival pvp servers. And let's waste resources for faction pvp servers. And let's waste resources for no cosmetic servers. And let's waste resoyrces for no pve no pvp but only crafting servers.
It affects ppl. It affects the quality of the product and customer experience.
Lol
Nobody said any of that... But sure...
If they're doing 20 servers, they're doing 20 servers. Dedicating a few to a different group isn't going to make those servers drain resources from the others. Thinking so is just silly.
Honestly, if anything it would make the quality of player on the PvX servers more pure and intune with the game... Sounds like an improvement to customer experience to me.
Things cost money. Not just words. The "pvx servers" will be just fine, even if pve players bemoan "griefing griefing".
PvE servers wont improve anything. Just drain money. You forget the need to recode concepts to facilitate the lack of node wars.
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
You mean waste studio resources for pve servers? Why.. then let's waste resources for rp servers. And let's waste resources for survival pvp servers. And let's waste resources for faction pvp servers. And let's waste resources for no cosmetic servers. And let's waste resoyrces for no pve no pvp but only crafting servers.
It affects ppl. It affects the quality of the product and customer experience.
Lol
Nobody said any of that... But sure...
If they're doing 20 servers, they're doing 20 servers. Dedicating a few to a different group isn't going to make those servers drain resources from the others. Thinking so is just silly.
Honestly, if anything it would make the quality of player on the PvX servers more pure and intune with the game... Sounds like an improvement to customer experience to me.
Things cost money. Not just words. The "pvx servers" will be just fine, even if pve players bemoan "griefing griefing".
PvE servers wont improve anything. Just drain money. You forget the need to recode concepts to facilitate the lack of node wars.
No, I didn't forget. If you read my posts you would have known that I even mentioned node sieges specifically.
Again if they're going to run 20 servers for a million players, and they dedicated 2 of those servers to be different, that doesn't cost anymore upkeep... They're still maintaining 20 servers... (Made up numbers for example purposes)
And if you're on a PvX server you won't hear them bemoaning and griefing... What do you have to be so mad about? Still sounds like a win win...
Then why do you mind them wanting to go over in the corner and play the way they want to?
Who cares?
I dabbled in an RP guild once out of curiosity. It wasn't for me, but some people really enjoy that aspect of the game. If someone said one of the 20 ashes servers should be designated as the hardcore RP server I wouldn't be mad.
I wouldn't play on that server, but wouldn't be out here saying they shouldn't have an RP server to play on.
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
Only reason i argue against it is most people's experience with open pvp comes from games like wow where it servered no purpose and was more of a little things the devs allowed then part of the game. They will choose a server based off that experience in another game instead of understanding it's role in the game or how the system will change their overall experience.
The flagging system is an intended part of the game and i'd rather people experience before we make make servers that shift away from the games original design.
Now that argument I completely understand. People have a bad taste in their mouth and just want to stay away from it could be missing out. But still that is on them. And how does giving a player that choice effect you? It's not changing the PvX design.
Giving them a PvE server wouldn't change your experience on the true PvX server. So why care what they do?
It doesn't effect me but it is something i want people to experience that i don't think many have.
Ashes is ashes, ashes doesn't need to be turned into a theme park world of Warcraft game. The vision of the game doesn't need to be changed to benefit the people that want a new mmo who refuse to play pvp. The highest amount of people should be introduced to their systems so they can grow and not try to become two different games.
First it becomes they need pve servers, then its they need to change stats on gear for better pve, then they need more pve content over pvp content, etc. People need to accept ashes as ashes for all of everything that makes it including PvP and PvE it is how the game is designed.
If you utterly hate pvp and refuse to play a game that is in it even if you can play and avoid it as much as possible there are other mmos out there like final fantasy.
I do mind because it will cost money and I rather they focus on the game.
I could apply that terrible attitude to so many things in the game if I wanted to, but I'm a fan of letting people have fun and enjoy themselves. You should try it.
I do mind because it will cost money and I rather they focus on the game.
I could apply that terrible attitude to so many things in the game if I wanted to, but I'm a fan of letting people have fun and enjoy themselves. You should try it.
I do mind because it will cost money and I rather they focus on the game.
I could apply that terrible attitude to so many things in the game if I wanted to, but I'm a fan of letting people have fun and enjoy themselves. You should try it.
Im not a fan of fluff. Pass
Ok
So should they save money, not hire any writers, and not do any fluff for quests? I mean you're not gonna read it and just take the quest anyways, why should they waste the resources...
I do mind because it will cost money and I rather they focus on the game.
I could apply that terrible attitude to so many things in the game if I wanted to, but I'm a fan of letting people have fun and enjoy themselves. You should try it.
Im not a fan of fluff. Pass
Ok
So should they save money, not hire any writers, and not do any fluff for quests? I mean you're not gonna read it and just take the quest anyways, why should they waste the resources...
-____-
I will remind you there are people on this forum that believe all quests are wasted fluff. (Not me but definitely some people.)
Subs pay for servers, is the real argument you should be making here. There is no waste of resources, only paying customers you wouldn't otherwise get.
---
I think PvE servers will give people a false sense of what Ashes is in a way that will disrupt their brand image personally. A PvE server would almost certainly have the incorrect itemization distribution because the economy in Ashes needs to be built around PvP existing. So the PvE server would be worse on a technical level regardless if it is more enjoyable or not.
If open world pvp is an actually failed concept to a western audience I don't want a halfbaked PvE server to give them an out. It should die a dignified death. A game with a flawed core concept is saveable but it needs to be completely rebuilt not just one feature switched off. That's what really saved FFXIV. They reworked a lot of the core game rather than just tweaking a few things once they realized their concept was flawed
I do mind because it will cost money and I rather they focus on the game.
I could apply that terrible attitude to so many things in the game if I wanted to, but I'm a fan of letting people have fun and enjoy themselves. You should try it.
Im not a fan of fluff. Pass
Ok
So should they save money, not hire any writers, and not do any fluff for quests? I mean you're not gonna read it and just take the quest anyways, why should they waste the resources...
-____-
Your talk is fluff. About how you wanna let others do as they want. Pointless words.
Who will pay for the PvE servers? You, who can so easily say "let others enjoy what they want"?
No you are not going to pay for pve servers.
Who is going to redevelop the game to remove pvp for pve servers? You?
All you can do is talk fluff.
AoC is an mmorpg with non instanced open world pvp and raiding/pve. If you want pve only content you should go and spend money to do that. Create that game. And then spend money for pvp servers and solo servers.
You go and do all that since it's so easy.
Dont ask others to pay, build and maintain it for you. Stop talking fluff.
To be honest, it doesn't really matter what we want to happen.
I hope this doesn't happen, but if the game ends up not meeting the minimum number of players needed to keep the servers running, they'll start doing shit like this because they have to.
Regardless, I have no doubt in my mind that Steven and hopefully most people working in Intrepid understand this and will make sure that the game is good enough to grab most MMORPG players, even if they can get PK'd at any time, over any other shitty MMO out there currently.
I agree. Ppl are dying for a new mmo because all the rest have done things very wrong.
Every time I read a post saying "you lost me" Im thinking to myself "m**o you will log in in a heartbeat when it goes live, no matter how much you cry about x y z".
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
You would not be there for me to PK
I'm sorry you have to go find someone who actually PvPs instead?
Isn't that why everyone wants a PVP game? To actually have a challenge? If you just want to stomp bots just do PvE... 😆
I'm sorry but why don't you just go and play a game that already has PvE servers? play a game that already has one, problem solved.
I do mind because it will cost money and I rather they focus on the game.
I could apply that terrible attitude to so many things in the game if I wanted to, but I'm a fan of letting people have fun and enjoy themselves. You should try it.
Im not a fan of fluff. Pass
Ok
So should they save money, not hire any writers, and not do any fluff for quests? I mean you're not gonna read it and just take the quest anyways, why should they waste the resources...
-____-
I will remind you there are people on this forum that believe all quests are wasted fluff. (Not me but definitely some people.)
Subs pay for servers, is the real argument you should be making here. There is no waste of resources, only paying customers you wouldn't otherwise get.
---
I think PvE servers will give people a false sense of what Ashes is in a way that will disrupt their brand image personally. A PvE server would almost certainly have the incorrect itemization distribution because the economy in Ashes needs to be built around PvP existing. So the PvE server would be worse on a technical level regardless if it is more enjoyable or not.
If open world pvp is an actually failed concept to a western audience I don't want a halfbaked PvE server to give them an out. It should die a dignified death. A game with a flawed core concept is saveable but it needs to be completely rebuilt not just one feature switched off. That's what really saved FFXIV. They reworked a lot of the core game rather than just tweaking a few things once they realized their concept was flawed
That...
Is a completely reasonable counter argument. I would like to point out that I did mention that PVP would still exist, but apply only where necessary for those friction points (caravans, Castle seiges, node wars, etc )
Also I have no desire for PvE servers, as I wouldn't play on one, but wouldn't care if they were there was my stance.
I do mind because it will cost money and I rather they focus on the game.
I could apply that terrible attitude to so many things in the game if I wanted to, but I'm a fan of letting people have fun and enjoy themselves. You should try it.
Im not a fan of fluff. Pass
Ok
So should they save money, not hire any writers, and not do any fluff for quests? I mean you're not gonna read it and just take the quest anyways, why should they waste the resources...
-____-
I will remind you there are people on this forum that believe all quests are wasted fluff. (Not me but definitely some people.)
Subs pay for servers, is the real argument you should be making here. There is no waste of resources, only paying customers you wouldn't otherwise get.
---
I think PvE servers will give people a false sense of what Ashes is in a way that will disrupt their brand image personally. A PvE server would almost certainly have the incorrect itemization distribution because the economy in Ashes needs to be built around PvP existing. So the PvE server would be worse on a technical level regardless if it is more enjoyable or not.
If open world pvp is an actually failed concept to a western audience I don't want a halfbaked PvE server to give them an out. It should die a dignified death. A game with a flawed core concept is saveable but it needs to be completely rebuilt not just one feature switched off. That's what really saved FFXIV. They reworked a lot of the core game rather than just tweaking a few things once they realized their concept was flawed
That...
Is a completely reasonable counter argument. I would like to point out that I did mention that PVP would still exist, but apply only where necessary for those friction points (caravans, Castle seiges, node wars, etc )
Also I have no desire for PvE servers, as I wouldn't play on one, but wouldn't care if they were there was my stance.
Yeah no worries. I know exactly where you are coming from. I was glad to see you voice a counter argument regardless.
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
I am not sure what you mean by PvE servers... No PvP at all or consensual PvP only? Anyway, it is hard to see that PvP aspect would be removed entirely even in these theoretical PvE servers because planned dynamic events such sieges and caravans. However, the world would work fine with consensual PvP which is more realistic wish. Anyhow, IF a such PvE server would be implemented then I would like to see a hardcore PvP server as well.
Actually, this is exactly what Fractured is working on atm. They will have three different planets, PvE, PvX and PvP to cater three different playstyles. However, these planets are not own servers and instead part of the same game world. It is interesting to follow how well that goes. Surprise surprise, it is the PvX planet which rules have changed several times and causes constant debate.
Consensual PvP only.
Everyone keeps saying the game is designed for PvX and I get that. You can have the mandatory PVP associated with the things that would require it such as node sieges and the PVP zone around caravans, etc. Without having the full open world flagging. Corruption can still be a thing, it could come into play if someone goes on an NPC killing spree or something.
If ashes launches and has 20 servers to choose from and 2-4 are for the people that don't care for PvP but want to play the game, then let them play there. Why should the other 80% of players care how that 20% portion wants to play?
In my opinion saying it shouldn't be there is similar to me saying non combat pets are dumb, and just a waste, and not how the game should be played.... 80% of the population doesn't walk around with them anyways, only 20% collect and enjoy them, but I don't want them to enjoy themselves over there...
And to the people saying stuff like
"You are selfish for not willing to offer a bit of fun to PvP-ers." and "You would not be there for me to PK". Those are the exact reasons some people want the PvE servers, to get away from players that act like that.
Am I there only one that doesn't think it matters if they do have PvE servers?
Honestly how would that effect the people on the PvP servers at all?
Only reason i argue against it is most people's experience with open pvp comes from games like wow where it servered no purpose and was more of a little things the devs allowed then part of the game. They will choose a server based off that experience in another game instead of understanding it's role in the game or how the system will change their overall experience.
The flagging system is an intended part of the game and i'd rather people experience before we make make servers that shift away from the games original design.
Now that argument I completely understand. People have a bad taste in their mouth and just want to stay away from it could be missing out. But still that is on them. And how does giving a player that choice effect you? It's not changing the PvX design.
Giving them a PvE server wouldn't change your experience on the true PvX server. So why care what they do?
One of the main reasons a lot of people on the forums don't want those kinds of servers is because, naturally, it will take away development time and make the game take even longer to release because now they must make multiple iterations of the same system. Another big reason why people don't want it is because the core design of the game is about soft friction between players, and multiple systems are being built around that.
The corruption system doesn't work because two people will need to agree to fight, or there will be no fighting, bounty hunting won't work because corruption cannot function in your proposed system. Server sizes will be diluted and the economy will suffer for it; if people only care about farming materials and crafting, go to a server where there is no pvp, a lot less resources will be available on the markets of other servers. Furthermore the normal pvp system has a way players are able to deal with bots, if I spot a bot and kill it, it will lose resources and have to run back to farming areas.
Also your comparison between new pve servers, and cosmetic pets makes no sense. There is something vastly different from something that has 0 change to anyone's gameplay, and something that fundamentally changes the gameplay for other players and yourself.
Although Steven and the Intrepid team obviously wish that a lot of people will enjoy their game by giving everyone something that they are able to enjoy, they still talk about the game as if it will be a niche game. Steven frequently talks about how the game won't be for everyone, how there will be "losers", not everyone will be able to win, etc. How I interpret when he says things like this, is that he means that the game is meant to be on the more hard/hardcore side of MMOs, and that he doesn't plan on changing his vision because people complain.
I do mind because it will cost money and I rather they focus on the game.
I could apply that terrible attitude to so many things in the game if I wanted to, but I'm a fan of letting people have fun and enjoy themselves. You should try it.
Im not a fan of fluff. Pass
Ok
So should they save money, not hire any writers, and not do any fluff for quests? I mean you're not gonna read it and just take the quest anyways, why should they waste the resources...
-____-
Weak argument against him because he is saying that your proposed idea will cost extra (due increased development time required to fix the broken systems and potentially additional servers required), your proposed "equivalent" idea is how they could cut costs, which will in turn reduce the quality of the overall experience for everyone. Simply put that's a false equivalence.
0
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I agree. Ppl are dying for a new mmo because all the rest have done things very wrong.
Every time I read a post saying "you lost me" Im thinking to myself "m**o you will log in in a heartbeat when it goes live, no matter how much you cry about x y z".
Yep. Even if Ashes goes P2W or caters to PvE and solo players, so...everyone may as well ask for what they want.
Especially while we have nothing to do but wait for Alpha 2.
If they're doing 20 servers, they're doing 20 servers. Dedicating a few to a different group isn't going to make those servers drain resources from the others. Thinking so is just silly.
You’re forgetting the part where they’d need to spend months and months rebuilding the systems designed for a PvX environment for a new PvE environment. You’re forgetting the part where any future content has to be reiterated after completion in order to function in both a PvX and PvE environment.
World bosses would be ridiculously easy because there'd be no competition. Everyone online who shows up gets loot when the boss dies! And why wouldn’t it die if you allowed every player on the server to throw themselves at the boss at once? Yay! Prizes for everyone!
/sarcasm
This would lower the value of rare materials and create issues regarding how to liquidate boss loot evenly among hundreds of participants.
OW Dungeons would become massive zerg runs without any real challenge. So they'd have to make all the dungeons instanced, and then calibrate them in the knowledge that there'd never be any competition halfway through. But the zones are likely designed with competition in mind, so, issues there as well.
Sea content is basically half PvP, I imagine. Uncharted territory, no real borders, you're at the mercy of every ship you run across. You remove that sense of danger from a server, and what's left?
You said you’re okay with PvP around trade caravans, but “running caravans” isn’t a “PvP-activity”. It’s a core tenet of the game for how you make money and support the economy. So it’s not really something tons of people could just opt out of or only do very occasionally.
TL;DR: Virtually every system in AoC is designed around the potential for PvP interactions. Asking for PvE servers is asking Intrepid to make two different games. They haven't even finished making one yet. Let them at least finish the game they set off to make first before we talk about anything else.
I agree. Ppl are dying for a new mmo because all the rest have done things very wrong.
Every time I read a post saying "you lost me" Im thinking to myself "m**o you will log in in a heartbeat when it goes live, no matter how much you cry about x y z".
Yep. Even if Ashes goes P2W or caters to PvE and solo players, so...everyone may as well ask for what they want.
Especially while we have nothing to do but wait for Alpha 2.
Ashes is dead if it goes P2W backlash would be insane.
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
They don't have to spend months rebuilding systems.
It's mostly just turning off flagging for non-battlegrounds PvP such that everyone remains a non-combatant and cannt be attacked unless in a battlegrounds...
But, it would take some time - and whatever time it takes is too much - since they are already 3 years over due - which basically means it's already taken them twice as long to deliver what they alreaady planned.
Comments
It is not a wrong perception of PvP.
I don't think anyone is afraid of getting ganked 24/7.
We already have people asking for more PvE stuff and people asking for more PvP stuff.>
That's going to happen regardless of server population.
We'll have to test Corruption first to judge whether it's healthy to have both populations on the same servers in Ashes or toxic.
I am not sure what you mean by PvE servers... No PvP at all or consensual PvP only? Anyway, it is hard to see that PvP aspect would be removed entirely even in these theoretical PvE servers because planned dynamic events such sieges and caravans. However, the world would work fine with consensual PvP which is more realistic wish. Anyhow, IF a such PvE server would be implemented then I would like to see a hardcore PvP server as well.
Actually, this is exactly what Fractured is working on atm. They will have three different planets, PvE, PvX and PvP to cater three different playstyles. However, these planets are not own servers and instead part of the same game world. It is interesting to follow how well that goes. Surprise surprise, it is the PvX planet which rules have changed several times and causes constant debate.
Consensual PvP only.
Everyone keeps saying the game is designed for PvX and I get that. You can have the mandatory PVP associated with the things that would require it such as node sieges and the PVP zone around caravans, etc. Without having the full open world flagging. Corruption can still be a thing, it could come into play if someone goes on an NPC killing spree or something.
If ashes launches and has 20 servers to choose from and 2-4 are for the people that don't care for PvP but want to play the game, then let them play there. Why should the other 80% of players care how that 20% portion wants to play?
In my opinion saying it shouldn't be there is similar to me saying non combat pets are dumb, and just a waste, and not how the game should be played.... 80% of the population doesn't walk around with them anyways, only 20% collect and enjoy them, but I don't want them to enjoy themselves over there...
And to the people saying stuff like
"You are selfish for not willing to offer a bit of fun to PvP-ers." and "You would not be there for me to PK". Those are the exact reasons some people want the PvE servers, to get away from players that act like that.
Now that argument I completely understand. People have a bad taste in their mouth and just want to stay away from it could be missing out. But still that is on them. And how does giving a player that choice effect you? It's not changing the PvX design.
Giving them a PvE server wouldn't change your experience on the true PvX server. So why care what they do?
You mean waste studio resources for pve servers? Why.. then let's waste resources for rp servers. And let's waste resources for survival pvp servers. And let's waste resources for faction pvp servers. And let's waste resources for no cosmetic servers. And let's waste resoyrces for no pve no pvp but only crafting servers.
It affects ppl. It affects the quality of the product and customer experience.
Lol
Nobody said any of that... But sure...
If they're doing 20 servers, they're doing 20 servers. Dedicating a few to a different group isn't going to make those servers drain resources from the others. Thinking so is just silly.
Honestly, if anything it would make the quality of player on the PvX servers more pure and intune with the game... Sounds like an improvement to customer experience to me.
Things cost money. Not just words. The "pvx servers" will be just fine, even if pve players bemoan "griefing griefing".
PvE servers wont improve anything. Just drain money. You forget the need to recode concepts to facilitate the lack of node wars.
No, I didn't forget. If you read my posts you would have known that I even mentioned node sieges specifically.
Again if they're going to run 20 servers for a million players, and they dedicated 2 of those servers to be different, that doesn't cost anymore upkeep... They're still maintaining 20 servers... (Made up numbers for example purposes)
And if you're on a PvX server you won't hear them bemoaning and griefing... What do you have to be so mad about? Still sounds like a win win...
Then why do you mind them wanting to go over in the corner and play the way they want to?
Who cares?
I dabbled in an RP guild once out of curiosity. It wasn't for me, but some people really enjoy that aspect of the game. If someone said one of the 20 ashes servers should be designated as the hardcore RP server I wouldn't be mad.
I wouldn't play on that server, but wouldn't be out here saying they shouldn't have an RP server to play on.
It doesn't effect me but it is something i want people to experience that i don't think many have.
First it becomes they need pve servers, then its they need to change stats on gear for better pve, then they need more pve content over pvp content, etc. People need to accept ashes as ashes for all of everything that makes it including PvP and PvE it is how the game is designed.
I could apply that terrible attitude to so many things in the game if I wanted to, but I'm a fan of letting people have fun and enjoy themselves. You should try it.
Im not a fan of fluff. Pass
Ok
So should they save money, not hire any writers, and not do any fluff for quests? I mean you're not gonna read it and just take the quest anyways, why should they waste the resources...
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I will remind you there are people on this forum that believe all quests are wasted fluff. (Not me but definitely some people.)
Subs pay for servers, is the real argument you should be making here. There is no waste of resources, only paying customers you wouldn't otherwise get.
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I think PvE servers will give people a false sense of what Ashes is in a way that will disrupt their brand image personally. A PvE server would almost certainly have the incorrect itemization distribution because the economy in Ashes needs to be built around PvP existing. So the PvE server would be worse on a technical level regardless if it is more enjoyable or not.
If open world pvp is an actually failed concept to a western audience I don't want a halfbaked PvE server to give them an out. It should die a dignified death. A game with a flawed core concept is saveable but it needs to be completely rebuilt not just one feature switched off. That's what really saved FFXIV. They reworked a lot of the core game rather than just tweaking a few things once they realized their concept was flawed
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Your talk is fluff. About how you wanna let others do as they want. Pointless words.
Who will pay for the PvE servers? You, who can so easily say "let others enjoy what they want"?
No you are not going to pay for pve servers.
Who is going to redevelop the game to remove pvp for pve servers? You?
All you can do is talk fluff.
AoC is an mmorpg with non instanced open world pvp and raiding/pve. If you want pve only content you should go and spend money to do that. Create that game. And then spend money for pvp servers and solo servers.
You go and do all that since it's so easy.
Dont ask others to pay, build and maintain it for you. Stop talking fluff.
I hope this doesn't happen, but if the game ends up not meeting the minimum number of players needed to keep the servers running, they'll start doing shit like this because they have to.
Regardless, I have no doubt in my mind that Steven and hopefully most people working in Intrepid understand this and will make sure that the game is good enough to grab most MMORPG players, even if they can get PK'd at any time, over any other shitty MMO out there currently.
Every time I read a post saying "you lost me" Im thinking to myself "m**o you will log in in a heartbeat when it goes live, no matter how much you cry about x y z".
I'm sorry but why don't you just go and play a game that already has PvE servers? play a game that already has one, problem solved.
That...
Is a completely reasonable counter argument. I would like to point out that I did mention that PVP would still exist, but apply only where necessary for those friction points (caravans, Castle seiges, node wars, etc )
Also I have no desire for PvE servers, as I wouldn't play on one, but wouldn't care if they were there was my stance.
Yeah no worries. I know exactly where you are coming from. I was glad to see you voice a counter argument regardless.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
One of the main reasons a lot of people on the forums don't want those kinds of servers is because, naturally, it will take away development time and make the game take even longer to release because now they must make multiple iterations of the same system. Another big reason why people don't want it is because the core design of the game is about soft friction between players, and multiple systems are being built around that.
The corruption system doesn't work because two people will need to agree to fight, or there will be no fighting, bounty hunting won't work because corruption cannot function in your proposed system. Server sizes will be diluted and the economy will suffer for it; if people only care about farming materials and crafting, go to a server where there is no pvp, a lot less resources will be available on the markets of other servers. Furthermore the normal pvp system has a way players are able to deal with bots, if I spot a bot and kill it, it will lose resources and have to run back to farming areas.
Also your comparison between new pve servers, and cosmetic pets makes no sense. There is something vastly different from something that has 0 change to anyone's gameplay, and something that fundamentally changes the gameplay for other players and yourself.
Although Steven and the Intrepid team obviously wish that a lot of people will enjoy their game by giving everyone something that they are able to enjoy, they still talk about the game as if it will be a niche game. Steven frequently talks about how the game won't be for everyone, how there will be "losers", not everyone will be able to win, etc. How I interpret when he says things like this, is that he means that the game is meant to be on the more hard/hardcore side of MMOs, and that he doesn't plan on changing his vision because people complain.
Weak argument against him because he is saying that your proposed idea will cost extra (due increased development time required to fix the broken systems and potentially additional servers required), your proposed "equivalent" idea is how they could cut costs, which will in turn reduce the quality of the overall experience for everyone. Simply put that's a false equivalence.
Especially while we have nothing to do but wait for Alpha 2.
You’re forgetting the part where they’d need to spend months and months rebuilding the systems designed for a PvX environment for a new PvE environment. You’re forgetting the part where any future content has to be reiterated after completion in order to function in both a PvX and PvE environment.
World bosses would be ridiculously easy because there'd be no competition. Everyone online who shows up gets loot when the boss dies! And why wouldn’t it die if you allowed every player on the server to throw themselves at the boss at once? Yay! Prizes for everyone!
/sarcasm
This would lower the value of rare materials and create issues regarding how to liquidate boss loot evenly among hundreds of participants.
OW Dungeons would become massive zerg runs without any real challenge. So they'd have to make all the dungeons instanced, and then calibrate them in the knowledge that there'd never be any competition halfway through. But the zones are likely designed with competition in mind, so, issues there as well.
Sea content is basically half PvP, I imagine. Uncharted territory, no real borders, you're at the mercy of every ship you run across. You remove that sense of danger from a server, and what's left?
You said you’re okay with PvP around trade caravans, but “running caravans” isn’t a “PvP-activity”. It’s a core tenet of the game for how you make money and support the economy. So it’s not really something tons of people could just opt out of or only do very occasionally.
TL;DR: Virtually every system in AoC is designed around the potential for PvP interactions. Asking for PvE servers is asking Intrepid to make two different games. They haven't even finished making one yet. Let them at least finish the game they set off to make first before we talk about anything else.
Ashes is dead if it goes P2W backlash would be insane.
It's mostly just turning off flagging for non-battlegrounds PvP such that everyone remains a non-combatant and cannt be attacked unless in a battlegrounds...
But, it would take some time - and whatever time it takes is too much - since they are already 3 years over due - which basically means it's already taken them twice as long to deliver what they alreaady planned.