Balancing guilds with solo play

I have seen a lot about the exciting guild incentives and mechanics planned for AOC which I am all for. My only concern is that this may require an environment whereby you HAVE to align yourself with a guild to be relevant in the game. Personally as a solo player I'm of the opinion that joining a guild should always be out of choice, not necessity. In which ways do you think solo play can be balanced so that solo players/small teams of friends can still choose this path?

One idea I propose is that solo players could carry out as questline to become a mercenary. Mercenaries would be neutral alignment but could be hired by guilds to assist in seiges and bosses etc. This way solo players are not gated away from content but likewise are still able to enjoy soloplay when they choose to.

Just as guilds can acquire reputation, so could mercenaries. At higher reputation levels your price as a mercanary would automatically increase. Reputation would be based on successful "missions"(hires) and feedback from guild seniors (e.g. a simple rating system).

Just as there will be a leaderboard for guilds, there could be s leaderboard for mercenaries. Perhaps this system would be tied to military nodes.

What are your thoughts?

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Voxtrium

@SirChancelot There are quite a few mercenary guilds already forming, from my guild who is focused on a hardcore PvP playstyle to Suspect who has plenty of opportunities for pretty much any player. You can find a home that you describe already.

Dygz

Well, again...
Karthos starts with the strawman fallacy that solo = non-social.
There are many, many ways to be social in MMORPGs without being stuck for hours in a group or obligated to meet requirements for a guild.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

I don't know what "top lvl content" means.

Even as a citizen of a Node, we aren't stuck only doing things in that Node.
Our home Node will send us on quests and tasks around the world.
So, even though SirChancelot thinks he might get bored sticking with one Node, that is probably not true.
Especially due to how a Node can change due to a new Mayor, a new Monarch and/or a new dominant race.
(Racial progression might send us across the map as well.)

And, just because you are a citizen of one Node does not mean you cannot gain a good rep in a Node (or several Nodes) across the map - even without joining a guild.

He is uses that point as much as possible because people as solo players want a edge over a guild which makes 0 sense. That game literarily makes smaller guilds have a edge over larger guilds.

You can tell a solo player any reason of things to convince them in a guild they will say things that don't make sense, which i think it just comes down to being extremely anti social. To the point even if they join a guild that doesn't have requirements voice chat, etc they will still say no even if they get great benefits.

This is what it should be in a nutshell if you are a solo player that refuses to be in any guild or build relations with a node you are just at a loss simply as that. There is no balancing something if someone purposefully shoots themselves in a foot, and expects handouts for it.

Dygz

LMAO
That is one delusional post you wrote there.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

LMAO
That is one delusional post you wrote there.

You really are trying hard to defend solo players, and its not a strawman by the way solo player = anti social.

Doesn't really matter what you say, since you can say anything of substence to defend a reason why someoen should refuse to be in a guild.

The only delusional thing is your lack of understanding why you are tied to one node. Its actually an amazing idea to have solo players strong armed to interacting with other players and eventually finding a group that matches with them so they can be apart of their guild in time.

Forced social interaction is the fastest way to avoid people never trying or considering and staying and only doing solo content.

This is a mmorpg bud.

CROW3

Mag7spy wrote: »

Forced social interaction is the fastest way to avoid people never trying or considering and staying and only doing solo content.

This is a mmorpg bud.

I’ve read this five times and can’t really grasp what you’re arguing. What are you trying to say?

derp

Honestly my main concern is balancing. I would like guilds to offer horizontal progression, as soon as it becomes vertical progression it becomes a problem in my opinion

Mag7spy

CROW3 wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Forced social interaction is the fastest way to avoid people never trying or considering and staying and only doing solo content.

This is a mmorpg bud.

I’ve read this five times and can’t really grasp what you’re arguing. What are you trying to say?

Its a long convo so that is just part of it. Main point having a bunch of systems in place that make it as convenient and easy for solo without interacting with other people is not good. Its better to have systems to coax people to have more social interactions, join guilds, etc.

George_Black

CROW3 wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Forced social interaction is the fastest way to avoid people never trying or considering and staying and only doing solo content.

This is a mmorpg bud.

I’ve read this five times and can’t really grasp what you’re arguing. What are you trying to say?

Some examples from eso:
Join guild only way to sell in auction house.
Group finder for dungeons.
Top items (mythics) hidden behind solo minigame.
Top items (arena weapons) hidden in solo arenas.
Fastest way to farm gear is soloing normal mode dungeons.
NPC companions that replace dps/tanks and healers.
Ez solo overland farming for gear.

Dygz

derp wrote: »

Honestly my main concern is balancing. I would like guilds to offer horizontal progression, as soon as it becomes vertical progression it becomes a problem in my opinion

Guilds offer both horizontal progression and vertical progression. AFAIK.
And small guilds get different perks than large guilds - in a manner such that small guilds are still viable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DABir_vvMfY&t=3339s

Dygz

Mag7spy wrote: »

Its a long convo so that is just part of it. Main point having a bunch of systems in place that make it as convenient and easy for solo without interacting with other people is not good. Its better to have systems to coax people to have more social interactions, join guilds, etc.

Again - solo ≠ non-social.
You can be highly social in MMORPGs without joining guilds or groups. And Ashes facilitates that.
Ashes has communities and micro-communites that player characters can be part of.
"Doesn't have to be a community that you're super-strongly bonded with." (Steven)

Also:
Steven 😇: @Boy Who Lived The game is built for both the solo player as well as guild oriented players, both large and small guilds.
Steven 😇: Solo players are afterall, still a member of the larger server community 😉

Mag7spy

It is a good design idea and its still strong arming them to be part of a community, which has a much higher chance to leading them into wanting to join a guild. Believe I've mentioned this before though.

Dygz

It's not strong-arming.
There are just a wide variety of options.
Casual players and solo players join communities because they want to; not because they are forced to.

Mag7spy

When you force people together in a spot, most people will mingle it much just take different amount of times for that to happen eventually on a normal scale. You are forced to only be apart of one node, you have to have a connection somewhere(of course you can move to a different node though but that derails in the convo of the reason to do so and the cost). We can dance around word semantics all day, but as far as I'm concerned its being strong armed into a situation that will most likely lead to more social interaction. That is a positive to me.

Dygz

You can only be a citizen of one Node.
You are not forced to become a citizen of a Node.
In Ashes, you don't really have to have a connection to somewhere.

It's likely that people will form bonds with what becomes their main hub, even if the don't become a citizen of a Node. Especially if they participate in defending the Node.
But, that's not strong-arming.
It's also likely that people will form bonds with citizens of Nodes because there is open world housing, so we can visit people at their homes. As in, we can walk to their homes and be fairly certain they will be there at the times they are normally there. Don't have to be a citizen to do that.
Even when the person is not at their home, you get to see how they've decorated their home and what kinds of pets they have. Which also helps form bonds.
We can expect more communication with other players in Ashes than is typical in previous MMORPGs because the world is dynamic, rather than static - so people will be asking what happened while they were away from the game.
None of that requires joining a guild or joining a group.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

You can only be a citizen of one Node.
You are not forced to become a citizen of a Node.
In Ashes, you don't really have to have a connection to somewhere.

It's likely that people will form bonds with what becomes their main hub, even if the don't become a citizen of a Node. Especially if they participate in defending the Node.
But, that's not strong-arming.
It's also likely that people will form bonds with citizens of Nodes because there is open world housing, so we can visit people at their homes. As in, we can walk to their homes and be fairly certain they will be there at the times they are normally there. Don't have to be a citizen to do that.
Even when the person is not at their home, you get to see how they've decorated their home and what kinds of pets they have. Which also helps form bonds.
We can expect more communication with other players in Ashes than is typical in previous MMORPGs because the world is dynamic, rather than static - so people will be asking what happened while they were away from the game.
None of that requires joining a guild or joining a group.

If by not joining a node you have less access and bonuses, no home then you are choosing to stab yourself in the foot for no reason. Strong incentive to be apart of the node is strong arming . Because the positives you are giving up are making everything more difficult for you based on what you are losing out on. By being part of a node when it is attacked your stuff is destroyed and you lose things.

You are using a weird PvE solo mind set which I don't understand why you push for this so much in a MMORPG. Yes you can live homeless without a bathroom, a place to make food, store it, etc. Doesn't mean you will have a good time....

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

If by not joining a node you have less access and bonuses, no home then you are choosing to stab yourself in the foot for no reason. Strong incentive to be apart of the node is strong arming . Because the positives you are giving up are making everything more difficult for you based on what you are losing out on. By being part of a node when it is attacked your stuff is destroyed and you lose things.

You'll have to pay taxes on your housing and will most likely be required to help out with node tasks (depending on how other players can influence your living situation within a node), and some people might not like that while also not caring about having a freehold or a stall. I'd assume some players will go w/o a citizenship just because they're trying to save up some money for something or just want to be a roaming traveler.

Dygz

I mean... stabbing youself in the foot for no reason is your prspective - but...
Ashes is an RPG. Hardship from not being a citizen can be great for RP.

But, Node citizenship is not "strong incentive". It's just incentive.
So, there is no strong-arming. That's simply you exaggerating to try to support your playstyle perspective.

The positives from not being a citizen of a Node does not make everything more difficult. The incentives for citizenship make some things easier.

Having your stuff destroyed when you are a citizen of a Node is not a positive incentive.

It's very clear that you don't understand the solo player mindset and make up all kinds of weird attributes of what solo play in an MMORPG entails.
I'm not aware of needing a bathroom in MMORPGs, but...
Being homeless makes for great RP in an MMORPG.
Being a ronin makes for great RP in an MMORPG.
We don't have to cook our own food in MMORPGs. Taverns are a great place to grab some food while socializing with other players - and you don't have to join a group or join a guild to socialize at a Tavern.
For some people, freedom makes people happier than being formally or systemically tied to other people.
Some people prefer to roam the world without being tied to a location or a group.
Gandalf is a prime example of that. Gandalf typically is not concerned about losing a bunch of stuff he stored in some city.

Again, solo does not mean that you rarely interact with others.
Solo does not mean you rarely help others.
Solo does not mean you rarely fight alongside others.
Solo does not mean you refuse to be a citizen.
Solo means you rarely mechanically join a group or raid.
You can be in a casual guild and still primarily solo.

MMORPGs have many different playstyles.
"Good time" is subjective.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

Having your stuff destroyed when you are a citizen of a Node is not a positive incentive.

Btw, that brings up a good discussion point. Where would a non-citizen store their stuff? At a node bank, right? But w/o a citizenship at that node, would that player be able to join the potential siege and then just take their stuff back? Have we heard info on this topic?

edit: warehouses appear in lvl1 nodes, so that'll be a huuuge benefit to non-citizens. Just store your shit at a lvl1 node that will never get sieged and you're golden. And if you see the node grow, just move your stuff w/o any problems.

Dygz

A non-citizen might only care about storing stuff that fits in their backpack or mule bags.
A non-citizen might have friends in many Nodes across the map who help them store stuff at their Freeholds.
No reason why you have to store stuff at a Node bank.
You don't have to be a citizen to defend a Node during a Siege. You just have to register as a defender.
Node citizens are auto-flagged as defenders for their Node.

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