NiKr wrote: » Yes, the Thieves Guild was just given as an example to prove a point, it wasn't meant to be taken literally, as you often do.
NiKr wrote: » And person who likes to RP could rp as a thief. The game could provide them with a "Thief" title and the RP player might be satisfied with just that, because they create their own gameplay on top of the tools the game provides. Or, well, at least that's what I've heard about how people RP in mmos. If your RPing is different, pls do explain the difference.
NiKr wrote: » But Ashes doesn't just give you a title. It provides you benefits for participating in social orgs system. It gives you motivation to move through their ladder, because there's better benefits at the top of it. And the system I suggested would function in the same way. Of course there's pretty much no bound gear in the game, but what I suggested is not just giving a piece of gear to your mate. I suggested a system that would give out way more gear to way more people, while giving benefits to the players that provided said gear.
NiKr wrote: » In my experiences of being a guild crafter of many years, you usually have waaaay more gear than what your guild requires. And that was in a game w/o an artisan profession system. From what I've seen in NW, people crafted fucking thousands of pieces of useless gear just to level up their professions. Roughly the same thing will happen in Ashes, but instead of just crafting low lvl shit to bump up your artisan XP, I suggested a system where you'd craft a good piece of gear that no one in your guild needs (because they're already overgeared or just don't require that particular piece) and you can then donate that piece to the overall gear donation system in exchange for some benefits to your character. The high lvl player benefits from this, the low lvl players benefit from it, there's no "came out of nowhere" gear acquisition mechanics that are usually tied to instanced content in mmos - as I see it, that's a win-win for all sides. And all the non-crafter players can still just buy gear from crafters/market and get their upgrades from their social org by donating that gear through the system (this would be on top of the standard planned rewards of the social org system).
Dygz wrote: » LMAO You didn't actually mention Thieves' Guild. The Thieves' Guild is an actual Social Org; not RP. I didn't take what you said literally. I just tried to make sure I understood what you were trying to say. But, I still don't know what RPing a thief has to do with actually donating gear. I just have a clearer idea of what you meant by "climbing the ladder of social structures".
Dygz wrote: » I just don't understand what relevance this is supposed to have to the discussion. I am a casual challenge, cooperative, socialist player rather than a hardcore challenge, competitive, capitalist player. My donations have nothing to do with RP. Make donations because you like helping others; not because the system gives you advantages due to donating.
Dygz wrote: » I dunno what that means. People tend to have more gear than they need. Individuals and guilds. Which is why it's easy enough to donate excesss gear - especially within the guild/alliance. And it's also easy enough to deconstruct or sell gear if you want to. The mechanic for trading excess gear for upgrades is basically called Sales. But, I'm pretty sure people will also be able to barter for upgrades without needing a "mechanic" for that.
NiKr wrote: » I thought the example of "go RP as a thief" in the context of "social structures" (yes, should've used Orgs instead of Structures) was obvious enough. Guess it wasn't, so I should've explained it better. My bad. The example itself served as a functional parallel.
NiKr wrote: » Most people won't just share their gear with random people out of the pureness of their hearts.
NiKr wrote: » As I've said before, the goal of my suggestion was to help lowbies/newbies to gear up, while doing fast/interesting content. They're still free to craft/buy/loot the gear themselves, but now they'd have an additional way of doing so. This kind of system would also allow for latecomers to catch up quicker w/o having some "boosted xp and loot" system in the game.
NiKr wrote: » A highly skilled low-time player would be able to clear more Tower floors, which would give him points for stronger gear which in turn would allow him to level up faster/easier and would bring him closer to the higher lvled people, at which point he'd be able to participate in harder party content. And any money that he farms while leveling up could go towards acquiring a freehold, a mount, some important consumables or whichever else a player will need in their future.
NiKr wrote: » And all of this could be done w/o immediately finding a guild, so it would even fit Derp's request for some good solo content.
Dygz wrote: » I dunno why RP is relevant but, I think I don't need to understand that part.
Dygz wrote: » There's no need to share gear with random people. Share gear with people in your guild. Share gear with newbies and lowbies you've befriended in your Node. Share gear with your mentees, since Ashes has a Mentor system.
Dygz wrote: » And, I already conceded that most hardcore challenge, competitive, capitalists will not share gear. I'm also saying we shouldn't systemically support that attitude by rewarding them if they do share their gear. The only system we need for that is sales. Which is already part of the design.
Dygz wrote: » I did not understand any of what you were trying to convey, there. If I want to twink a casual time player, I will donate them gear and possibly money -- because I want to twink the character. No need to reward that behavior systemically.
Azherae wrote: » The suggestion would be because if only 5% of people behave like you do, then unless those people have enough spare gear to help 'all lowbies', then whether or not lowbies receive help is random.
Azherae wrote: » This isn't even helpful because some will just reject it, and while you might continue regardless, some others who do this sort of thing are incentivized to stop after a few 'I was helping newbies but they kept shrugging me off and/or giving it back' (anecdotal memory experience, happened twice in a game I played, but this to me has some meaning because that was 2 of the 4 people that I knew in that group who would be likely to do that).
Dygz wrote: » Azherae wrote: » The suggestion would be because if only 5% of people behave like you do, then unless those people have enough spare gear to help 'all lowbies', then whether or not lowbies receive help is random. We don't need to help ALL the lowbies. Pretty sure that is not how the Economy is intended to work. Azherae wrote: » This isn't even helpful because some will just reject it, and while you might continue regardless, some others who do this sort of thing are incentivized to stop after a few 'I was helping newbies but they kept shrugging me off and/or giving it back' (anecdotal memory experience, happened twice in a game I played, but this to me has some meaning because that was 2 of the 4 people that I knew in that group who would be likely to do that). Sure. That is OK. There is no reason why everyone should be routinely donating. There is no reason why people must accept donations. If you wish to donate, donate. If you don't want to donate, don't donate. If you need a reward for sharing your unwanted gear - sell it.
Dygz wrote: » We don't need to help ALL the lowbies. Pretty sure that is not how the Economy is intended to work.
Azherae wrote: » Ah, it seems there's a more fundamental disagreement relative to goals then, perhaps. Only NiKr could say for sure, so I'll disengage.
