About mandatory PvP.

Otr wrote: »

@Mag7spy I checked the wiki and I see that I was not aware that (as you said)

If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant.[20]

Still if a PvE player will want to venture into the territory of an unfriendly guild, he might die once and loose some resources.
Now, what I would like to know is if the corrupt player can have an agreement with a friendly bounty hunter, to let himself killed and get rid of corruption fast.

BH system is a fair point, i think there is a lot of ways you exploit it. If I'm a BH i don't want to kill them, i want my friends to kill them and letting them know where he is so he drops full gear

. Though same can be said you use it to advert your own loses by having your friend pk you until your corruption is gone. This can be a whole thread in itself tbh.

Counter to that might be if multiple people can mark a bounty and gear is shared some how. Just needs enough risk and deterrent so people can't use an escape goat.

Otr wrote: »

@Mag7spy I checked the wiki and I see that I was not aware that (as you said)

If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant.[20]

Still if a PvE player will want to venture into the territory of an unfriendly guild, he might die once and loose some resources.
Now, what I would like to know is if the corrupt player can have an agreement with a friendly bounty hunter, to let himself killed and get rid of corruption fast.

Getting rid of Corruption "fast" does not instantly remove the accrued death penalties.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

A timid player is simply that. A player with a timid personality who is unsure of themselves and their decisions, usually based on fear of the outcome of their decisions. Corruption isnt there to prevent unwanted activities being forced onto other players, it is simply there to limit how often it occurs.

By your definition, timid player is not a thing.
Corruption is designed to deter non-consensual PvP such that it is a rare occurence.

Seeking to limit the amount of "non-consensual" pvp via the corruption system is what I have seen as the teams goal. Not to prevent or deter it. Otherwise why are they even putting in mechanics that are directly dependent on corrupted players being a thing?

Steven specifically states the goal is to deter ganking but not completely prevent it.

“ You're not going to see griefing in the game very often; and that's because of our flagging system. The Corruption mechanics are based around disincentivizing a griefer or PKer but still offering the opportunity, should the occasion arise, where the benefits outweigh the risk, you have the ability to do so. If you gain Corruption, which is killing a Non-Combatant - a player who is not fighting back, basically - if you gain that Corruption, your world has changed. It is not going to be a very beneficial place to be and you have the potential of losing your gear. Your combat efficacy decreases based on the amount of Corruption you accrue.”
—-Steven

sounds right to me, it is as casual friend as you can make it btw.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Steven specifically states the goal is to deter ganking but not completely prevent it.

“ You're not going to see griefing in the game very often; and that's because our flagging system. The corruption mechanics are based around disincentivizing a griefer or PKer but still offering the opportunity, should the occasion arise, where the benefits outweigh the risk, you have the ability to do so. If you gain corruption, which is killing a non-combatant - a player who is not fighting back basically - if you gain that corruption, your world has changed. It is not going to be a very beneficial place to be and you have the potential of losing your gear. Your combat efficacy decreases based on the amount of corruption you accrue.”
—-Steven

I feel like honestly we are both sort of arguing semantics. I see it as a limiter. You see it as a deterrent... I am sitting here thinking to myself its sort of the same thing. Either argument is still exactly what Steven is saying. Corruption keeps ganking in check but it doesn't get rid of it entirely.

Um. Yes. Deter does not mean the same thing as prevent.

Deter is how it should be, its not a PvE game o.O

Vaknar

Certainly a hotly debated topic in the community..

Some of you may have seen me express these thoughts recently in similar posts... My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see firsthand how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. While it certainly isn't for everyone, I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!

Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^

Vaknar wrote: »

Certainly a hotly debated topic in the community..

Some of you may have seen me express these thoughts recently in similar posts... My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see firsthand how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. While it certainly isn't for everyone, I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!

Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^

I, for one, have no such experiences to share that I would expect anyone hesitant to feel anything remotely positive about. No owPvP game has managed it for ME, and I say this as a player who will gladly both initiate and accept owPvP under nearly any circumstance. Even as the initiator, it is nearly never a satisfying experience in MMOs for me.

I think I can count the number of times I had a positive owPvP experience on two hands. At least it's not just one. But to be fair, I don't play many such games.

I will hope to be surprised. And I definitely will be surprised if it works.

ashesplayer123

Vaknar wrote: »

Certainly a hotly debated topic in the community..

Some of you may have seen me express these thoughts recently in similar posts... My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see firsthand how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. While it certainly isn't for everyone, I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!

Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^

Honestly it's difficult to share stories because there are so many, but I will try I guess. First I'd like to talk a little bit about the company I was part of.

My most recent open world PvP stories are from New World. I used to play in a company that participated in both PvP and PvE, but player driven conflict management was our main profile: making treaties with other guilds, protecting smaller communities, managing wars within our faction (syndicate), organizing people to defend/capture the fort in our main region, and actively hunting people in the open who bullied lower level players.

It was common practice by marauders on our server to level in small groups (3-5 people per group) and to actively look for fights in the quest areas, but one day some groups decided they are going to hunt people who are just idling outside the Everfall dungeon (can't recall what's it called). Since toggling PvP gave a boost to XP, many people turned it on, even if they played alone, which of course resulted in people getting smacked right outside the dungeon. After people alerted the faction chat of what's happening we immediately started organizing groups ourselves, while making sure to invite the solo randoms who wanted to join (we were in discord and the randoms pretty much just followed us around, it worked well).

As we arrived at the location we didn't find anyone, so we started running around, because we doubted they would just leave like this. After looking for a bit we found them lying in the grass, once one of them was spotted almost immediately 30+ marauders just appeared from the grass and bushes, and the whole thing turned into a massive fight. We traded back and fourth for some time, it was a very even fight, well played on both sides with organized groups.

However the covenant groups also realized what's going on, and they wanted to have control over the dungeon entrance, but we haven't realized this until it was too late and we got flanked by them. Luckily some of us managed to get out alive, then we regrouped back at town, once regrouped we ran right back to the location hoping people would still be there, and just as we arrived so did the other faction's groups. It was really funny how the three factions just stood in a triangle and looked at each other, waiting what happens next. More people joined our cause on syndicate side, so we ended up winning this conflict, and we had control over the dungeon area. They never contested the dungeon area, but they kept fighting for the fort, but we kept shutting them down. We never lost the region (until I was playing at least, as far as I know the server doesn't exist anymore).

These are the moments why I really like games that encourage people to participate in open world PvP. The social interactions make the game much more fun to me, and this feeling is what I'm looking for in Ashes too. I like engaging with people in the open world, and PvP is perfect for that. PvP is also very different from PvE in the sense of the content that's needed to keep the players busy. In PvE players depend a lot more on the team's development cycle than in PvP. So even though I enjoy PvE as well, I prefer the PvP gameplay loop a lot more.
I'm super excited about caravans, sieges, and contested open world bosses.

Azherae wrote: »

Vaknar wrote: »

Certainly a hotly debated topic in the community..

Some of you may have seen me express these thoughts recently in similar posts... My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see firsthand how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. While it certainly isn't for everyone, I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!

Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^

I, for one, have no such experiences to share that I would expect anyone hesitant to feel anything remotely positive about. No owPvP game has managed it for ME, and I say this as a player who will gladly both initiate and accept owPvP under nearly any circumstance. Even as the initiator, it is nearly never a satisfying experience in MMOs for me.

I think I can count the number of times I had a positive owPvP experience on two hands. At least it's not just one. But to be fair, I don't play many such games.

I will hope to be surprised. And I definitely will be surprised if it works.

Curious what are you expecting out owpvp, What is it that you want?

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Vaknar wrote: »

Certainly a hotly debated topic in the community..

Some of you may have seen me express these thoughts recently in similar posts... My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see firsthand how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. While it certainly isn't for everyone, I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!

Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^

I, for one, have no such experiences to share that I would expect anyone hesitant to feel anything remotely positive about. No owPvP game has managed it for ME, and I say this as a player who will gladly both initiate and accept owPvP under nearly any circumstance. Even as the initiator, it is nearly never a satisfying experience in MMOs for me.

I think I can count the number of times I had a positive owPvP experience on two hands. At least it's not just one. But to be fair, I don't play many such games.

I will hope to be surprised. And I definitely will be surprised if it works.

Curious what are you expecting out owpvp, What is it that you want?

Same as I said before. I want the average person in the game to desire for it to happen the same way they desire to fight mobs.

People who don't like fighting mobs either aren't who I'm talking about here. I want players to look at another player and go 'that looks like it may be about as much fun as fighting a good Elite mob' (bearing in mind that I come from games where basically all mobs have the potential to be interesting and challenging at-level). And then engage (or even check if the other person is willing to fight, if they wanna be super polite for some reason and aren't a Rogue) with the expectation that both sides will gain some knowledge or something from the fight.

I'm sure there's some older MMO that gives this experience that I haven't played, but I'd like a new one.

So you want a mmo where people attack first and ask questions later and are never afraid to fight? Even in older mmos that wasn't the case looking at another player was a red flag, either you are fighting, if you are lucky they are leaving or they might try to backstab you.

To have a mmo like what you want where people are more keen on fighting each other imo would be more similar to some battle royale games where you don't have fear of losing anything. When i played shadowbane Id hunt players or be hunted it was fun but was also a lot to deal with to lose your farm.

Bdo is closest to that mind set but that is because also how it is designed. Even on a more hardcore pvp servers that isn't something that is going to happen, i think what you are thinking of is a bit of an exaggeration and definitely not a PvX type game. There would never be honor or fair fights, power and numbers and a lot of running to not lose your year. On top of large guilds camping people so they can never leave.

PvX is the best way with limits it makes the experiences more memorable then just having everyone trying to murder each other 24/7

Mag7spy wrote: »

So you want a mmo where people attack first and ask questions later and are never afraid to fight? Even in older mmos that wasn't the case looking at another player was a red flag, either you are fighting, if you are lucky they are leaving or they might try to backstab you.

To have a mmo like what you want where people are more keen on fighting each other imo would be more similar to some battle royale games where you don't have fear of losing anything. When i played shadowbane Id hunt players or be hunted it was fun but was also a lot to deal with to lose your farm.

Bdo is closest to that mind set but that is because also how it is designed. Even on a more hardcore pvp servers that isn't something that is going to happen, i think what you are thinking of is a bit of an exaggeration and definitely not a PvX type game. There would never be honor or fair fights, power and numbers and a lot of running to not lose your year. On top of large guilds camping people so they can never leave.

PvX is the best way with limits it makes the experiences more memorable then just having everyone trying to murder each other 24/7

I wish you were capable of having conversations without projecting so much/making assumptions about what other people want or how.

I don't feel like trying to explain this to you though, maybe you're right and I don't want a PvX game and therefore won't like Ashes. That's a better simpler conclusion.

Can't really look at players the same way I look at mobs because mobs don't have true feelings.
I don't care too much if I grief a mob. I don't care if a mob is not in the mood to fight.

I like to eat fish, but fish eyes are disgusting.
You can't make me enjoy eating fish eyes the way I enjoy eating fish.

Dygz wrote: »

Can't really look at players the same way I look at mobs because mobs don't have true feelings.
I don't care too much if I grief a mob. I don't care if a mob is not in the mood to fight.

You too? Sure, fine...

This isn't the point either, but if that's the perspective you're capable of, so be it, I'll hope for better from the Dev team.

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

So you want a mmo where people attack first and ask questions later and are never afraid to fight? Even in older mmos that wasn't the case looking at another player was a red flag, either you are fighting, if you are lucky they are leaving or they might try to backstab you.

To have a mmo like what you want where people are more keen on fighting each other imo would be more similar to some battle royale games where you don't have fear of losing anything. When i played shadowbane Id hunt players or be hunted it was fun but was also a lot to deal with to lose your farm.

Bdo is closest to that mind set but that is because also how it is designed. Even on a more hardcore pvp servers that isn't something that is going to happen, i think what you are thinking of is a bit of an exaggeration and definitely not a PvX type game. There would never be honor or fair fights, power and numbers and a lot of running to not lose your year. On top of large guilds camping people so they can never leave.

PvX is the best way with limits it makes the experiences more memorable then just having everyone trying to murder each other 24/7

I wish you were capable of having conversations without projecting so much/making assumptions about what other people want or how.

I don't feel like trying to explain this to you though, maybe you're right and I don't want a PvX game and therefore won't like Ashes. That's a better simpler conclusion.

When you say you want other players looking like mobs that means to fight them, to get loot, etc. Any player that sees a mob would attack, that isn't projecting that is normal in any kind of mmo. Im simply saying what would happen in a game like that. I also have experience with tons of old mmorpg and i know how full loot PvP is without limits.

I gave an example of the closest one which was Bdo and people in that game aren't that quick to attack everything in it. My only main assumption is you either want more hardcore pvp servers or pve players so they can make the PvX server more hardcore.

I ask and try to figure it out based on the information you give me, long story short there is no mmorpg out there that people play that are like that, or they were not successful enough to come to the light.

Again if you want a mmo where you look at players like mobs you are looking at more of s shooter type game its different in a PvX type game...

If I'm getting the wrong understanding just explain it to me better, that was the example you gave me.