We need PVE servers here's why

No we dont need PVE servers, get baited.

This is a pvx game, pvp and pve are the core of this game, every system is designed with pvp/pve in mind.
You cant avoid pvp in this game.

Most people think they will be killed all the time by players. That wont happen there are system to prevent constant PK unlike vanilla wow.

Will you get killed in the Open World sometimes? Yes
Will you get ganked in open world dungeons and raids sometimes? Yes
Will you have the freedom to do whatever you want in game? BIG YES

There are risks and rewards in this game. If Frodo went to Mordor in a PVE server would that be fun?NO

This is not about being casual or hardcore, its about freedom. You can PVE only in this game, but expect to be forced into pvp sometimes. But dont come here and ask for PVE servers or a way to avoid pvp when pvp is a core system.

Alpha 2 is meant to test stuff, the PK system will be tested and balanced, so dont ask for reworks or to remove it without it being tested. This is a pvx game stop trying to make it a pve only game please.

Its like going to McDonalds and ask for Pizza because you dont like hamburgers, makes no sense.

Find more posts tagged with

Staff

Comments

Ludullu

CROW3 wrote: »

But they’re still opinions…. 🤗

True, and I did go quite a bit into the woods with that comment, but it's mainly because I usually see that phrase from the people that haven't even heard of L2 (outside of maybe Steven mentioning it), so they have 0 concept of how this kind of flagging system can even operate. And the only thing they see is "omg I can be killed in the open world! That sounds like that one time when a horde char killed me while I was picking flowers and it made me quit WoW! If Ashes keeps this system - IT'S GONNA FUCKING DIE!!!"

And that gets annoying when I know for sure that a veeery similar system works great and PKing doesn't happen all that often. And Steven has already made changes that will decrease the number of PKs even more. So my only logical conclusion from this experience and observation of said changes is that AoC's system will be even more casual friendly than L2's already were.

Now I'm not saying that you're one of the people who says that kind of shit, but it's been a long day/week/4 months for me, so that was just a bit of unneeded venting triggered by an annoying phrase

JamesSunderland

Noaani wrote: »

You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to arrive at this perspective.

Some real mental gymnastics there, it simply doesn't follow.

Don't get it twisted Noaani, the only mental gymnastics here are the ones you are trying to use to disconnect the characters from the player as a whole!

The Player's main character that levels up and goes out there in the world to get the resources needed faces the Risk vs Reward of the owPvP, but the lv 1 crafter on the freehold being fed only has PURE ADVANTAGES and NO DRAWBACKS, the player is simple without risks MULTIPLYING the value of the rewards acquired by the main character breaking the risk vs reward balance.

Noaani

JamesSunderland wrote: »

The Player's main character that levels up and goes out there in the world to get the resources needed faces the Risk vs Reward of the owPvP, but the lv 1 crafter on the freehold being fed only has PURE ADVANTAGES and NO DRAWBACKS, the player is simple without risks MULTIPLYING the value of the rewards acquired by the main character breaking the risk vs reward balance.

There are indeed drawbacks.

There is the time it took to level up the alts profession.

That multiplying of the value of rewards acquired by the main is the result of that time investment.

All you are arguing for is for an increase in that time. You are not adding any actual risk at all to this situation.

JamesSunderland

Noaani wrote: »

JamesSunderland wrote: »

The Player's main character that levels up and goes out there in the world to get the resources needed faces the Risk vs Reward of the owPvP, but the lv 1 crafter on the freehold being fed only has PURE ADVANTAGES and NO DRAWBACKS, the player is simple without risks MULTIPLYING the value of the rewards acquired by the main character breaking the risk vs reward balance.

There are indeed drawbacks.

There is the time it took to level up the alts profession.

That multiplying of the value of rewards acquired by the main is the result of that time investment.

All you are arguing for is for an increase in that time. You are not adding any actual risk at all to this situation.

Once again getting it twisted eh? Time ≠ Risk

The processes of leveling the crafting profession multiplies the rewards along the way without risks, you will progress and profit no matter what.

I have no idea how you are still arguing that there is risk in such a balance-breaking situation such as a lvl 1 crafter alt in the freehold and not understanding the risks of the character level journey a crafter would need to get through to reach that reward.

CROW3

NiKr wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

But they’re still opinions…. 🤗

True, and I did go quite a bit into the woods with that comment, but it's mainly because I usually see that phrase from the people that haven't even heard of L2 (outside of maybe Steven mentioning it), so they have 0 concept of how this kind of flagging system can even operate. And the only thing they see is "omg I can be killed in the open world! That sounds like that one time when a horde char killed me while I was picking flowers and it made me quit WoW! If Ashes keeps this system - IT'S GONNA FUCKING DIE!!!"

And that gets annoying when I know for sure that a veeery similar system works great and PKing doesn't happen all that often. And Steven has already made changes that will decrease the number of PKs even more. So my only logical conclusion from this experience and observation of said changes is that AoC's system will be even more casual friendly than L2's already were.

Now I'm not saying that you're one of the people who says that kind of shit, but it's been a long day/week/4 months for me, so that was just a bit of unneeded venting triggered by an annoying phrase

All good, man. I hear you on the year that has been a decade; sounds like it's been hard for you too. Based on what I read, I didn't take your response as venting, just trying to provide insight from your observations. I just think it's important for folks not to form their camps on Ashes PvX prematurely, based on a scant amount of actual knowledge.

Personally, I think that Intrepid is going to err on the side of corruption being on the harsher rather than forgiving side of the fence. Meaning that the overall life of greens will be more peaceful than folks are concerned about. That's pure conjecture based on what I've heard over the last few years from Steven.

But we'll see. We'll just need to test the hell out of the system.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

If the material you are trying to gather is in a high level area, its highly unlikely you would be able to gather it without dying.

Perhaps, but perhaps not.

If I am able to get it, more power to me, right?

This kind of thing doesn't influence the normal player for the most part (it would stop you from making 5 alts and trying to master every craft on all them without further putting effort into each character.).

This is more a counter to guilds and super guilds that go to extreme try hard methods and bring alts to hold gear (this includes trying to find pvp exploits to bypass corruption drops), prevent pvp drop loss etc. Trust me this is something you want, its mainly try hard that will try to abuse such things so they can find ways around and pvp harder. Also something you won't see till much later on in the game life when people get more towards end game.

Noaani

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Once again getting it twisted eh? Time ≠ Risk

Sure it does. Name one other thing a game can take from us.

If we get corruption, it just takes time to get rid of it. If we lose materials, it takes time to replace them. If we get experience debt, it takes time to get rid of it.

Literally anything we risk in an MMORPG can be reduced down to the time it takes to replace it.

I have no idea how you are still arguing that there is risk in such a balance-breaking situation such as a lvl 1 crafter alt in the freehold and not understanding the risks of the character level journey a crafter would need to get through to reach that reward.

Leveling a character isn't a risk, it is a time commitment.

There is literally no situation in which it is reasonable to assume that a player can start to level a character, and not actually achieve hitting the level cap if they put enough time in to it.

Thus, this is not a risk, it is simply time.

There literally is no risk in an MMO outside of time. This is a game design fundamental.

JamesSunderland

Noaani wrote: »

Sure it does. Name one other thing a game can take from us.

If we get corruption, it just takes time to get rid of it. If we lose materials, it takes time to replace them. If we get experience debt, it takes time to get rid of it.

Literally anything we risk in an MMORPG can be reduced down to the time it takes to replace it.

A game isn't some sentient being that can "TAKE" something away like time from you by force Noaani...

Yes all those things takes time, but they also take other things that aren't time, like risks, action, knowledge, desire and etc.

Leveling a character isn't a risk, it is a time commitment.

There is literally no situation in which it is reasonable to assume that a player can start to level a character, and not actually achieve hitting the level cap if they put enough time in to it.

Thus, this is not a risk, it is simply time.

There literally is no risk in an MMO outside of time. This is a game design fundamental.

Once again Noaani, not only time...
Can the player start to level a character without action?
Without desiring to start to level a character?

There are risks in games Noaani, they are artificial and arbitrary, but they are still risks.

Noaani

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Yes all those things takes time, but they also take other things that aren't time, like risks, action, knowledge, desire and etc.

Take any action in which you are said to be at risk. The only things you stand to lose are things that you can gain back by putting in some time.

If I defeat you in PvP, you don't lose some of your knowledge on the game. Everything that you lose you can regain by simply spending time.

Once again Noaani, not only time...
Can the player start to level a character without action?
Without desirering to start to level a character without action?

What the fuck are you even talking about here?

What is action other than time?

There is nothing at risk in an MMORPG other than time.

JamesSunderland

Noaani wrote: »

Take any action in which you are said to be at risk. The only things you stand to lose are things that you can gain back by putting in some time.

If i risk overenchanting a weapon, the risk is to break it, can i put time in to recover it, yes, was the risk time?
Only indirectly and only if i want to recover it, the risk was breaking the weapon, the loss was the weapon, aren't you able to understand something as simple as that?

What is action other than time?

Actions require time, time itself doesn't requires actions Noaani, Think Noaani, Think!
There is no need to play around with semantics Noaani!

There is nothing at risk in an MMORPG other than time.

What the hell is this even supposed to mean? You dont RISK time playing a MMORPG you USE your time playing an MMORPG, aren't you able to understand the simple Risk vs Reward core design from ashes?

We are getting so far from the original point i can barely see it anymore.

Noaani

JamesSunderland wrote: »

If i risk overenchanting a weapon, the risk is to break it, can i put time in to recover it, yes, was the risk time?
Only indirectly and only if i want to recover it, the risk was breaking the weapon, the loss was the weapon, aren't you able to understand something as simple as that?

The loss was the weapon, and replacing the weapon requires time.

As I said, everything can be reduced down to time.

The rest of your post here was obviously you not being even remotely serious, and so I feel no need to reply to it at all.

JamesSunderland

Noaani wrote: »

The rest of your post here was obviously you not being even remotely serious, and so I feel no need to reply to it at all.

I will take it as advice, i feel it's illogical to keep replying to your posts about this subject after this point.
Was cool while it still made sense tho, i was able to get an interesting question for this Livestream Q&A thread.

Dygz

Mag7spy wrote: »

They are literally trying to make it tolerable, that is what the whole corruption system is for.

Yay! We agree.
Why are you writing an agreement as if you disagree with me??

Dygz

Ferryman wrote: »

If we forget this hypothetical PvE-server thing. Ashes will have non-consensual PvP regardless players like it or not. Only time will tell which direction the corruption rules will be adjusted but it is hard to say anything for that before proper testing. Yeah I agree that it will not necessarily be that bad but at the end it depends what level is acceptable from developers mind. I am personally easy to please here because I am okay with everything.

Yeah, I mean...
We're going to have a few people at the extremes:
Some people who believe Corruption is too harsh on PvPers.
Some people who believe Ashes should have a "PvE server."

I think most of this discussion is more about explaining what the concept of a "PvE server" even means for Ashes - because PvPers tend to think that means no PvP at all, when what advocates mostly want is to have the non-consensual PvP disabled while keeping the Battlegrounds PvP enabled.

The vast majority of us commenting in this topic know that the devs should not be wasting their time creating and managing a "PvE server" at this point in development (3 years behind the original release date).
We're content to test Alpha 2 before making a judgment call.

Noaani

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

The rest of your post here was obviously you not being even remotely serious, and so I feel no need to reply to it at all.

I will take it as advice, i feel it's illogical to keep replying to your posts about this subject after this point.
Was cool while it still made sense tho, i was able to get an interesting question for this Livestream Q&A thread.

You still didn't come up with anything players are risking that isn't able to reduce down to time.

Nor did you give any reason as to why you want profession and combat levels tied other than as a means to increase the time it takes to level up a profession on an alt.

Dygz

Mag7spy wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

This thread... though I do like brownies (with or without nuts). I'll take three, @NiKr

Two 'brass tacks' thoughts:

1. I think a pve version of Ashes is simply a non-starter (hence the HEAVY sarcasm of the OP) for obvious reasons
2. Given a PvX ow, the core governing mechanism is corruption. We know next to nothing about that system. We've never tested it and never seen it demoed. We also have no understanding of what the combat system is going to be. So while the conversations about the right blend of PvP are interesting justifications for more popcorn, we're ALL operating from a place of near-complete ignorance

Just keep that in mind before some of you tear each others virtual heads off.

I keep saying this but no one cares lmao

I think you just have to spend more time assessing where people agree with you in addition to where they don't.
I've been saying the same thing CROW3 wrote this entire time.
So...again...seems like we agree... although you reply to me as if we don't.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Like even if you pk someone and get their loot and 20 other people see you, they are going to flag up. And if you kill them your corruption only gets worse. If im a casual or pver I'm glad the system on a design stand point feels as powerful as possible to making it hell for a pvper.

From what I've heard the issue is not the absence of punishment for the criminal, but the loss of resources/time itself on the side of the casual getting killed. They don't care that they might not get kileld by the same person later on because they already got killed by them just now.

Mmmmn. I mean...
What's important is that Corruption is enough of a deterrent that killing a non-combatant is comfortably rare.
The revenge is mostly irrelevant. And the loss of resources/materials is probably irrelevant, too, since it's just the loot that you lose for being killed by a mob.

Dygz

Ferryman wrote: »

Just out of curiosity... is it said that a lvl 1 character can become some sort of a master crafter?

Anyhow, I do not personally want any restrictions for the alts and I think that players should have a possibility to create freely different kind of characters (considering professions and classes) they want to. That is kind of the idea of alts.

I think someone already mentioned that profession level could be bound with character lvl, if needed.

A Level 1 Adventurer can be a max level Crafter.

JamesSunderland

Dygz wrote: »

A Level 1 Adventurer can be a max level Crafter.

Yo Dygz, do you happen to have a wiki quote or a video time stamp related to this?
I Haven't found one yet.

SirChancelot

JamesSunderland wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

A Level 1 Adventurer can be a max level Crafter.

Yo Dygz, do you happen to have a wiki quote or a video time stamp related to this?
I Haven't found one yet.

Progression within artisan classes does not relate to a player's progression in their adventuring class.[9]

In the wiki under artisan classes

Sounds like I can work and level skills in professions and never even leave my node, therefore never kill anything or level up my character.

Child Item