Guild/node should be tied to accounts

I feel being in a guild as well as a citizen in a node should be tied to an account akin to how black desert online does it. Since guilds will have limited slots it will make it more fair swapping between your alts as they will all be in the game guild if one joins it. Else you get the issue with people in a bunch of different guilds if they start having alt characters without being able to grow a unique community in the guild and it just turning into a bunch of alts in a single guild. Rather then making multiple guilds for alts it will be easier to manage in one so communities can more easily grow.

Also think if you can be in multiple guilds that cause some issues with people trying to use that to their advantage on being apart of a larger guild but then create smaller guilds for the buffs they can get to boost their character so they have more of an advantage in fights. So have their alt run a smaller guild and their main in the small guild for the boost. As well as the node system when it comes to voting for people and just being able to have a bunch of alts vote you in to being mayor of a node.

If you are going to be in a guild and node you shouldn't be able to make a character and be apart of every guild and every node on the map to use it to your advantage. If you are committing to node and guilds it should be account wise.

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Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

If we fast forward to you having 2 and a average high level doing things for the guild, problem still remains to the point have taking up 3 important spots for the guild over 1. As well as the impact player per player will impact the guild, if you can boost it by throwing a bunch of alts (until you get actual players) also think that be a cheat as well. Though will need more information about the guild system and how things will work first.

If the content requires purely active players - you kick alts and/or make a sub-guild for them. If some of your members can use several pcs and commit as much time/resources as 2+ separate players (even in raids/mas pvp) - they deserve the guild spots. Exactly because they're working twice (or more) as hard as any other member. That is the whole point of alts being in the same guild - each character must earn their place because places are limited.

And having alts take up spaces in an empty guild is not cheating, otherwise all mmos would prohibit you from doing so. Some people might call it moral cheating, but that shit doesn't matter because no matter how many alts you have in your guild, they don't mean shit in a pvx game where you need live people to survive.

CROW3

Mag7spy wrote: »

All alts and characters are you they are not separate. You put the work in to earn your place every day, week, etc.

Idk, man. This whole idea seems like over-engineering ways to benefit a guild that already exist organically without and proportionate benefit to the player. It heavy-handed and awkward.

If you want players to be more engaged in your guild, then make the guild more engaging.

Mag7spy

You won't have to worry about alts deserving a spot if its not viewed as per character but per player. If someone wants their support going to the guild 100% with all characters that should be as easy as possible for them. Not leaving the guild so they can swap a different character in because of limited spots. That makes a mess of managing when you have 200 people in the guild some of them in it being alts, some of them wanting to swap what characters are supporting the guild. People that have investment to the guild should be able to help it as much as possible per player. And there shouldn't be a thing where multiple character can fast track to easy xp for a guild I also feel that is a issue depending on how alts can influence a guild if it goes by per character.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

That makes a mess of managing when you have 200 people in the guild some of them in it being alts, some of them wanting to swap what characters are supporting the guild.

As someone who has been a GL for 200++-member guilds - it is not a mess. You either have all your members as mains, because you care about being at your top fighting potential at all times, or you don't care about that and let some alts in, kicking them as soon as there's a contender for that place. It is really not that hard. And I could do this back when I was not even 18, so I'm sure that an adult who has more inter-personal experience can manage that too. Especially considering that they were the ones who wanted to be a GL in the first place.

And as been stated multiple times already, mmorpgs let you play several roles (classes/professions), so why should they limit what those roles are by confining you to one guild. At worst, you could just have it as an option, where any of your alts that are invited to the same guild don't take up new spaces, but forcing guild membership on people is not the way, and Steven already knows it.

Mag7spy

Well i guess we will see what happens further on in development. Most people in my opinion that re in guilds want to be in the guild with all the characters it is also more modern imo. I mainly just see an emotional reason to not have guild s tied to accounts over a design reason that I'm looking at it like.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Well i guess we will see what happens further on in development. Most people in my opinion that re in guilds want to be in the guild with all the characters it is also more modern imo. I mainly just see an emotional reason to not have guild s tied to accounts over a design reason that I'm looking at it like.

Again though, make that an option. Just don't force shit on people. Forcing never works.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Well i guess we will see what happens further on in development. Most people in my opinion that re in guilds want to be in the guild with all the characters it is also more modern imo. I mainly just see an emotional reason to not have guild s tied to accounts over a design reason that I'm looking at it like.

Again though, make that an option. Just don't force shit on people. Forcing never works.

At the very least it should be a option.

Marcet

Mag7spy wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

From a roleplaying perspective it kills my immersion to have an account bound guild.

I hate being lvl 0 and already in a guild chat, people talking to me like im my lvl60 char. I want to be completely anonymous, every char his own story, and I don't want to see account names on people either.

If we keep changing every abusable thing in the game we'll end up with no game at all, go play solitaire maybe you can't abuse systems there.

Then there should be a function to be able to appear offline and you just close the guild chat. Regardless if you have a high level character you have already seen and understood the game. You can pretend you are level one in your mind but you still have the general experience of the game and are not a noob lol.

Changing everything about the game? I just believe in guild commitment, slots not taken up by alts guildies want in the guild, and not being able to have benefit of every different guilds perks.

So what if I already have a max lvl character?? I want to start again with a lvl 1 completely fresh and anonymous to the game, you want to control people and not rely on trust on a game where people have to make decisions.

You can not accept people into the guild if they are not at least lvl20+ , why would you accept a lvl 1 alt on the first place??? Like people can't kick alts that do nothing in their own guild. On top of that not everyone is gonna be a troll or a slacker, maybe some people will "abuse" this when a guild doesn't notice the afk alt maliciously exploiting resources somehow, but most people will play fair.

Mag7spy wrote: »

You won't have to worry about alts deserving a spot if its not viewed as per character but per player. If someone wants their support going to the guild 100% with all characters that should be as easy as possible for them. Not leaving the guild so they can swap a different character in because of limited spots. That makes a mess of managing when you have 200 people in the guild some of them in it being alts, some of them wanting to swap what characters are supporting the guild. People that have investment to the guild should be able to help it as much as possible per player. And there shouldn't be a thing where multiple character can fast track to easy xp for a guild I also feel that is a issue depending on how alts can influence a guild if it goes by per character.

You think we don't understand your reasons, no, we understand them very well but we disagree, you try to control people and force things that are not fun and give less options to the player. Guild commitment with account, if you want it, yes, but not forced. I've been in several guilds and this problem never happened, if it happens you deal with it.

Iffithy

I personally would not want to be locked into just one guild because of the guild level system.

I have different play styles for different moods. Some days I might want to go hunt caravans and others I might want to just lay low in town and craft.

So with the current guild system of point either going to perks or increasing member cap, I would have to choose a guild that either has too few people to have a large variety of player types in it to play with or a larger guild with fewer perks.

And before anyone says “oh but you can still play with other guilds” doesn’t that defeat the purpose of all your characters working towards one guild?

Mag7spy

Marcet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

From a roleplaying perspective it kills my immersion to have an account bound guild.

I hate being lvl 0 and already in a guild chat, people talking to me like im my lvl60 char. I want to be completely anonymous, every char his own story, and I don't want to see account names on people either.

If we keep changing every abusable thing in the game we'll end up with no game at all, go play solitaire maybe you can't abuse systems there.

Then there should be a function to be able to appear offline and you just close the guild chat. Regardless if you have a high level character you have already seen and understood the game. You can pretend you are level one in your mind but you still have the general experience of the game and are not a noob lol.

Changing everything about the game? I just believe in guild commitment, slots not taken up by alts guildies want in the guild, and not being able to have benefit of every different guilds perks.

So what if I already have a max lvl character?? I want to start again with a lvl 1 completely fresh and anonymous to the game, you want to control people and not rely on trust on a game where people have to make decisions.

You can not accept people into the guild if they are not at least lvl20+ , why would you accept a lvl 1 alt on the first place??? Like people can't kick alts that do nothing in their own guild. On top of that not everyone is gonna be a troll or a slacker, maybe some people will "abuse" this when a guild doesn't notice the afk alt maliciously exploiting resources somehow, but most people will play fair.

Mag7spy wrote: »

You won't have to worry about alts deserving a spot if its not viewed as per character but per player. If someone wants their support going to the guild 100% with all characters that should be as easy as possible for them. Not leaving the guild so they can swap a different character in because of limited spots. That makes a mess of managing when you have 200 people in the guild some of them in it being alts, some of them wanting to swap what characters are supporting the guild. People that have investment to the guild should be able to help it as much as possible per player. And there shouldn't be a thing where multiple character can fast track to easy xp for a guild I also feel that is a issue depending on how alts can influence a guild if it goes by per character.

You think we don't understand your reasons, no, we understand them very well but we disagree, you try to control people and force things that are not fun and give less options to the player. Guild commitment with account, if you want it, yes, but not forced. I've been in several guilds and this problem never happened, if it happens you deal with it.

You don't view the person as a lvl one account you view them as your, guildy, friend, etc as a whole not per character.

What element does your account being bound to a guild affect any element of game play experience.

Besides the fact you can try to get any benefit you want from other guilds (which most likely will be from competitive players trying to min max ie level a guilds that makes tank more tanky for their alt)

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

You don't view the person as a lvl one account you view them as your, guildy, friend, etc as a whole not per character.

But what if I want to be different people with different people. Just as any person is different when they're with their coworkers compared to when they're with the family and/or friends and/or their other half.

I want to be a tank for my main guild, but then a healer to another group of people and a dangerous PKing rogue to a third group of people.

Mag7spy wrote: »

What element does your account being bound to a guild affect any element of game play experience.

The one I just described. Some people call that the "role" part of the rpg in the mmorpg.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Besides the fact you can try to get any benefit you want from other guilds (which most likely will be from competitive players trying to min max ie level a guilds that makes tank more tanky for their alt)

And none of those benefits would influence other guilds. A competitive player wants to have their best character, which means being in the best guild with the best benefits. And that can be only one thing. Your second character won't be as strong because you won't invest as much time in it. Or if you do invest more time into it - it becomes your best, while the previous one is now weaker.

And if I'm playing my tank alt that is in a tank guild, I can only be that tank at that moment. My other characters/alts and any of their benefits won't matter because I'm only a tank at present. And this is why each character is considered a separate entity in the game. Even in FF14, where you can have all professions on one char, you still have to switch between them in order to utilize them, so it's not like you're all those things at once.

And because of that separation of entities, there's no "benefit" to me having my alts in different guilds. If anything, I'm weaker on most of them because my limited time has been spread out across multiple characters instead of one super strong one. But as I've said before, if any of those guilds find my alt's gameplay unsatisfying - they're free to kick me for that exact reason.

Marcet

Mag7spy wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

From a roleplaying perspective it kills my immersion to have an account bound guild.

I hate being lvl 0 and already in a guild chat, people talking to me like im my lvl60 char. I want to be completely anonymous, every char his own story, and I don't want to see account names on people either.

If we keep changing every abusable thing in the game we'll end up with no game at all, go play solitaire maybe you can't abuse systems there.

Then there should be a function to be able to appear offline and you just close the guild chat. Regardless if you have a high level character you have already seen and understood the game. You can pretend you are level one in your mind but you still have the general experience of the game and are not a noob lol.

Changing everything about the game? I just believe in guild commitment, slots not taken up by alts guildies want in the guild, and not being able to have benefit of every different guilds perks.

So what if I already have a max lvl character?? I want to start again with a lvl 1 completely fresh and anonymous to the game, you want to control people and not rely on trust on a game where people have to make decisions.

You can not accept people into the guild if they are not at least lvl20+ , why would you accept a lvl 1 alt on the first place??? Like people can't kick alts that do nothing in their own guild. On top of that not everyone is gonna be a troll or a slacker, maybe some people will "abuse" this when a guild doesn't notice the afk alt maliciously exploiting resources somehow, but most people will play fair.

Mag7spy wrote: »

You won't have to worry about alts deserving a spot if its not viewed as per character but per player. If someone wants their support going to the guild 100% with all characters that should be as easy as possible for them. Not leaving the guild so they can swap a different character in because of limited spots. That makes a mess of managing when you have 200 people in the guild some of them in it being alts, some of them wanting to swap what characters are supporting the guild. People that have investment to the guild should be able to help it as much as possible per player. And there shouldn't be a thing where multiple character can fast track to easy xp for a guild I also feel that is a issue depending on how alts can influence a guild if it goes by per character.

You think we don't understand your reasons, no, we understand them very well but we disagree, you try to control people and force things that are not fun and give less options to the player. Guild commitment with account, if you want it, yes, but not forced. I've been in several guilds and this problem never happened, if it happens you deal with it.

You don't view the person as a lvl one account you view them as your, guildy, friend, etc as a whole not per character.

What element does your account being bound to a guild affect any element of game play experience.

Besides the fact you can try to get any benefit you want from other guilds (which most likely will be from competitive players trying to min max ie level a guilds that makes tank more tanky for their alt)

- I want them to see me as a lvl 1 new player and only as a friend or guildy if I want them to know.

- It affects my gameplay in the element of doing what the hell I want to do with each one of my characters independently and not being tide to anything.

- You only see this as people taking advantadge of others, that's the only possible outcome in your mind, have an alt to maliciously benefit from others.

BaSkA_9x2

Mag7spy wrote: »

Most people in my opinion that are in guilds want to be in the guild with all their characters...

Where did you get that data? Are you sure it's not you and your circle of friends who want that?

I highly doubt "most people" want that.

In any case, even if most people wanted that, what difference does "the majority wants something" make? If most people want something bad for the game then Intrepid should do it?

Mag7spy wrote: »

...it is also more modern imo.

Just because something is "modern" does not automatically make it good.

Mag7spy wrote: »

I mainly just see an emotional reason to not have guilds tied to accounts over a design reason that I'm looking at it like.

Why is your idea a "design reason" and not an "emotional reason"? What if I say your reason is an emotional one instead?

Why can't "different characters have nothing in common, even if they are on the same account, therefore they can't be locked to guilds" be a "design reason"?

Mag7spy wrote:

Clearly everyone has their own view points, mine is just from a social stand point on wanting the growth of guilds to be steady, and every guild as meaningful as possible.

Are you sure your idea isn't the one based on "emotional reasons"?

In any case, this is a moot point because there is nothing that makes "emotional reasons" inherently bad. I want Ashes to implement some systems similar to the old games I used to play for nostalgic reasons. That's a valid reason as any.

Mag7spy wrote: »

The only reason to be jumping in multiple guilds is that you aren't even giving guilds the fair share of commitment to see how things are and going to jump ship instantly. Same thing can be said the other way around, if the guild knew you were in multiple guilds why would they give you one of their few spots? What are you doing for the guild?

...

Again if it goes back to the spying there you leave guild and spy on another guild, or you get friends or pay people off in the other guilds to spy for you. All of that will still be apart of the game.

...

I don't view guild as a fan group that you are in while doing nothing for the guild, hardly interacting with people and just there to get states honestly I think that is boring when you have no investment in the guild.

Respectfully, can we be honest for a moment? The main, if not the only, real reason why you want the game to lock accounts to one guild is because you don't want to take the risk of having spies and/or alts in your guild.

I don't have any quotes from Steven or Intrepid, but I definitely hope that they thoroughly disagree with your idea of locking all characters in an account to the same guild.

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

If we block somebody who spams the chat, will we see when that player plays with an ALT? Is a list of blocked players accessible? That would allow tracking players, to see with which ALT they play.

We could have it on a scaling system. You get blocked by a lot of people in general chat on one char? You get chat banned for a hew hours.

You get blocked/reported by several people on your alt? A day chat ban account-wide.

You keep doing this stupid shit after those bans? You get banned from the game for a day or two and get flagged to GMs in case you're still doing this shit later.

Same thing could apply to PMs. You block one char and it's only a block on that one char. You block another char who happens to be the alt of the first char's owner? That whole account is not blocked from you.

Otr wrote: »

Also when we unfriend a player, will we vanish from his friend list too?

Could also make this optional on each side. By default you befriend a character, but if both sides agree to it, they can have each other as account friends.

Options, people! Options! It's really not that difficult.

bloodprophet

[/quote] Besides the fact you can try to get any benefit you want from other guilds (which most likely will be from competitive players trying to min max ie level a guilds that makes tank more tanky for their alt)[/quote]

I am curious as you have said this several time. Do you think players have having multiple characters in multiple guilds with multiple benefits that all the buffs from the various guilds will apply to all the characters?

Thus far they have stated every character can only be in 1 guild at a time and changing guilds might have a waiting period.

I am ok with the idea that multiple characters in one guild take up one slot and not take up multiple guild slots in that guild, but forcing them to be in the same guild is a big no.

Dolyem

To be honest I do enjoy having options to join different guilds but when I see this option I am looking at what a better game system would be. But as a twist of ideas, what if you instead made it where a players guilds were public knowledge as far as accounts go? Each character can be in different guilds, but the info of membership in guilds across the account is common knowledge with a simple inspection. And maybe make a guild perk to hide that from players if they wish to focus on subversion. Just a fun little concept idea.

Maybe you could even add the +1 alt per member as a guild perk as well? Having 1 main and 1 alt take up a single membership spot. Seems like a nice middle=ground, and its optional. What do yall think?

Ludullu

Dolyem wrote: »

Each character can be in different guilds, but the info of membership in guilds across the account is common knowledge with a simple inspection. And maybe make a guild perk to hide that from players if they wish to focus on subversion. Just a fun little concept idea.

Maybe you could even add the +1 alt per member as a guild perk as well? Having 1 main and 1 alt take up a single membership spot. Seems like a nice middle=ground, and its optional. What do yall think?

As long as all of that is optional, I'm fine with it.

Mag7spy

Ask any group of friends playing together I'm sure the majority will have alts and they will want to play with their friends at the end of the day. Does that include mine yes. If people are playing with people they aren't thinking about being in other guilds away from their friends, which if alts take guild space that causes a issue there.

This doesn't make it bad for the game it create more heathy guilds, over you looking for a guild and then find out they are mostly alts. Of course joining and searching for the right guild is important but it creates a lot more clutter you need to filter in your search for a guild. Quality over quantity.

Where did you get that data? Are you sure it's not you and your circle of friends who want that?

I highly doubt "most people" want that.

In any case, even if most people wanted that, what difference does "the majority wants something" make? If most people want something bad for the game then Intrepid should do it?

You literarily aren't making any sense here trying to flip the point to me. Reasons people have given to not have account bound
1.I want to rp
2 I don't want people seeing what im doing.
3. I want to find other guilds I like more.
4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

Things that can be solve in game being social or having systems in place to appear offline. Nothing that influences actual gameplay besides point 4 which for me I don't feel you should be able to get every major perk and use that as an advantage between your characters. If you have a guild per account, naturally your time will go towards the guild on all characters over being split between multiple characters on other guilds, which in turn would help guilds grow with more focused groups of people playing together. If your idea is I want to be in 4 different guilds one main one and then smaller ones with alts for rp reasons personally I'd ask if you are taking the guild seriously but i have a more competitive mind set. If you are splitting your time between 3/5 (main) and 2/5 (alts) you are effective playing less and being a lot more casual and not taking the guild as seriously. Again I have a more competitive mind set where if my time is split I'd feel id be progressing much less.

Why is your idea a "design reason" and not an "emotional reason"? What if I say your reason is an emotional one instead?

Why can't "different characters have nothing in common, even if they are on the same account, therefore they can't be locked to guilds" be a "design reason"?

Based on this point I'm assuming you are the type to want to spy / troll a guild? Crazy how much you are putting on this point as i clearly said the design reasons why I feel guilds should be account bound to help them grow as well have more importance on the guild that you are looking to be apart of.

If you want to really go down the rabbit whole of spies and such in a guild we can go there then. Joining a guild to spy or getting into a position that lets you steal from a guild, mess with funs or kick every member just cause so your guild has a better chance is just dumb. If you are going to argue that is a fun game design point its not it is just annoying. Working with a guild for a year to get a officer position and then wanting to destroy a guild by picking, stealing, etc isn't a fun challenge. Doesn't matter if it is apart of the game as most people would say its silly.

Respectfully, can we be honest for a moment? The main, if not the only, real reason why you want the game to lock accounts to one guild is because you don't want to take the risk of having spies and/or alts in your guild.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

If you want to really go down the rabbit whole of spies and such in a guild we can go there then. Joining a guild to spy or getting into a position that lets you steal from a guild, mess with funs or kick every member just cause so your guild has a better chance is just dumb. If you are going to argue that is a fun game design point its not it is just annoying. Working with a guild for a year to get a officer position and then wanting to destroy a guild by picking, stealing, etc isn't a fun challenge. Doesn't matter if it is apart of the game as most people would say its silly.

Yet that kind of espionage work is what makes the best stories coming out of EVE and the other games like it (though nothing is really like it).

Obviously it's not meant to be fun for the side that suffers from those actions, but that's part of the design of the game. It's not trolling, it's strategic competitive actions against your enemy, that took a shitload of time and effort to execute.

Mag7spy wrote: »

which in turn would help guilds grow with more focused groups of people playing together.

It wouldn't though. It adds nothing to the guild but dissolution of player roles. If instead of having a single true role you have 6 alternatives that are all over the place in their build/strength/levels - you're less of an asset to the guild.

Back when I led competitive guilds I wanted each player to play for at least 6h a day on their main character. That was the guild's requirement for any member. Any time outside of that could be spent however that member wanted. If it was for the benefit of the guild - great! I'd note that down and reward them accordingly later. If it wasn't - that's completely fine, because people have their own lives and are free to do with them whatever they want. That was the player's choice, based on what the requirements were.

But if I know for damn sure that each player has 5 more alts in our guild, yet he's not utilizing them for the benefit of the guild - I wouldn't want that kind of player in my competitive guild. You say that people are free to do whatever they want on their alts, even if they're all in one guild. But that is not the case with competitive guilds. If I know that someone has a useful alt - you better damn provide that alt's services to the guild. And I'll be requiring you to play that alt on your guild time. Hell, I might even require you to only play that alt, because your main class might be less useful to the guild at the time.

And now you can't just chill on said alt, because you have to get it to max lvl, max gear and max readiness for guild war or raid.

And all of that is not even considering the fact that most guild would definitely go the meta route in this kind of system. Each player would be required to level up certain alts to certain levels. It will all be tracked and no player will have a "chill alt" left on their account. And while with a f2p game that could be fine, in a sub-based game you've now removed any non-paid-for relaxing time.

I've seen and have myself done so in L2 countless times, because there were Epic Bosses on lower lvls that required properly leveled and geared characters. And you know what people did? They made a whole different account to have a chill character all for themselves. And they could do so because the game was free.

In other words, I don't see how this suggestion would lead to anything but more toxicity in the game, w/o adding any benefit for people who don't even care about all that stuff.

bloodprophet

Mag7spy wrote: »

4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

Can you define this please?

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