I believe that if players want to spy on other guilds they can just leave their real guild, take their account elsewhere and do their spying. And come back later.
I believe that if people want to play alts without socializing they should just say "Im doing something by myself today so I wont be available". It's not a big deal.
That is bizarre.
Ashes is an MMORPG. The whole point of alts is to socialize differently with different characters...including each character being in different guilds - if that's what they choose to do.
The proposed design helps guilds with their available spots. If the account is tied to the guild, a member can swap from a high to a low character, from a tank to a dps, from whatever the need is, without worrying about not having room, about coming to the activity with a non guild character, potentially missing out on contributing or receiving and guild points.
If the account is restricted to just one guild, you mean.
My DPS character would probably not want to be in the same guild as my Tank character - they might not even have the same friends. My DPS character might want to be in a Py'Rai Guild while my Tank character chooses to be in a Ren'Kai Guild.
I dont understand this selfish behaviour. What do you think guilds are? Armor skins that complement your mood? "I wanna be able to play in many guilds". I dont get it.
Anyways. None of this affects me on a personal level. Not one bit. Ill take my common sense and get out of this topic. Arguing against selfishness isnt hard anyway. I said all I had.
I dont understand this selfish behaviour. What do you think guilds are?
A guild is what ever that guild wants to be.
If a guild wants to be an alt guild for players from various guilds, who are you to stop them?
Your attitude is the selfish attitude here, you are the one wanting to limit people to suit your desire. No one is forcing you to have your characters in different guilds if you want to have them in the same guild.
I dont understand this selfish behaviour. What do you think guilds are? Armor skins that complement your mood? "I wanna be able to play in many guilds". I dont get it.
I don't even care about this shit. I just want to have a non-guilded alt. Why the hell must I be tied to my guild even on my other characters?
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I thought he meant IF your alts are in guilds, they have to be in the same guild.
Not that all of your alts must be in a guild.
I thought he meant IF your alts are in guilds, they have to be in the same guild.
Not that all of your alts must be in a guild.
Maybe I misunderstood him. I'd be way laxer on my opposition to this suggestion if that's the case. Even though my opinion on it doesn't matter at all, cause Steven already said how it's gonna be.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
No the idea is IF you have an alt they WILL be in the same guild. You get no choice in the matter.
That’s how I read it as well. But neither version seems appealing.
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Night WingsMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2022
Alts be forced to join the same guild as the main character
Putting everyone under a same roof with alts and expect that to go well IDK what fantasy world you living in pal.
In other words, you're limiting player choice while not providing any benefits with this change. What it would provide though is more toxicity in hardcore guilds. I can already see smth like "I see you have a crafting alt. Why are you not crafting stuff for free for the guild? Wtf man?!" or "I see you have a healer alt. Have you maxxed it out yet? We gonna need it for the next raid cause we already have enough of your main class. Go do it asap".
(Side rant to quote above)
Stuff like that crack me up.... Why should I do more for a guild when the guild is not meeting my level of effort O.o I'm here to play a game not do a job that's not paying me lol. Guild is only good if its a group effort not a single man effort....
Moving on....
Blocking people into a single guild will make it more difficult for people to find a home. I can join a guild and like the people, but then my alt can join another guild and I can really like theses people more. Also who would want a reputation of someone jumping guilds after guilds after guilds just to try to find the right one lol.. It would be awkward to, because if the guild you left cared to ask you either tell them you don't "click" with them or just lie and humans are petty I say this because even I unintentionally can be petty....
Anyone else thinking this conversation is a basically highschool cliques or just me???
Spy Topic
You guys are going on and on about people spying in another guild listen what they say etc.... If the person who spies on another guild does anything its considered griefing/trolling which has been on the internet since like day one and no one has found a way to permanently stop it so why we having this conversation?
Why should my time/fun/social interaction suffer, because of a troll online?
If you join a guild that is not meeting your expectations then you leave its really that simple. Nothing stops you from finding another guild after.
If you don't want to socialize say you are off or chilling for the night. No one is forcing you to talk to people all day in game while you are playing....
Everyone under the same roof with alts is fine, because its all the same accounts at the end of the day.
The onyl reason to be jumping in multiple guilds is that you aren't even giving guilds the fair share of commitment to see how things are and going to jump ship instantly. Same thing can be said the other way around, if the guild knew you were in multiple guilds why would they give you one of their few spots? What are you doing for the guild?
STILL waiting for all these quotes sayings that the systems are designed and no other considering about them changing as they are final from Steven the one guy keeps saying without linking anything. Again if it goes back to the spying there you leave guild and spy on another guild, or you get friends or pay people off in the other guilds to spy for you. All of that will still be apart of the game.
If you are joining a guild that is focused on a certain race, just have characters of that race and join the guild. I don't think its the in of the world if you have a few alts of another race but your main is what the guild wants.
Of course i have my own experience leading guilds and working with them and i see the issue of alts taking up space in a guild as a big one there is limited space and those slots will fill up fast. I don't view guild as a fan group that you are in while doing nothing for the guild, hardly interacting with people and just there to get states honestly I think that is boring when you have no investment in the guild.
My final thoughts on the matter
I understand people want to do what they want, be free of dealing with people, or have more of a rp mind in focus. Ultimately I feel those issues can be tackled per person and guild and some people that have issues with it are guild hoppers. Having limited spots in a guild makes it harder for large wars and managing your guild knowing who is a alt and who isn't. For guild building this will make it easier for guilds to grow with a lot of random guilds that are just place holder for alts and picking up people in semi dead guilds.
Clearly everyone has their own view points, mine is just from a social stand point on wanting the growth of guilds to be steady, and every guild as meaningful as possible. So that is all I'll say on this. I have another idea for guild members and a ranked system ill; mention in another thread.
STILL waiting for all these quotes sayings that the systems are designed and no other considering about them changing as they are final from Steven the one guy keeps saying without linking anything. Again if it goes back to the spying there you leave guild and spy on another guild, or you get friends or pay people off in the other guilds to spy for you. All of that will still be apart of the game.
And it should be a difficult part of the game. If you're just leaving your own guild with your main to spy on another guild, you're not spending more time to be worthy to get an invite to the guild you wanna spy on. Also, if you're even a bit of a good player, any enemy guild will know you by name. If you're a great player who also plays a lot (meaning invests a lot into your guild) - you will not only be known by name, but you might also be the main target for most guilds. And if you leave your main guild and suddenly decide to switch sides, you'll be under constant surveillance and, most likely, nothing of true importance will be discussed in your presence because that guild will think of you as a spy for the longest time, cause big names don't just leave their guilds.
But leveling up a whole new alt char, giving it high quality gear and putting in time to prove yourself before the guild you wanna spy on - all of that takes time, effort and resources. On top of already putting a ton of all of those things into your main char. This makes spying a very direct hardcore part of the gameplay.
Of course i have my own experience leading guilds and working with them and i see the issue of alts taking up space in a guild as a big one there is limited space and those slots will fill up fast. I don't view guild as a fan group that you are in while doing nothing for the guild, hardly interacting with people and just there to get states honestly I think that is boring when you have no investment in the guild.
As a guild leader of over 6 years, of ranging guild sizes and successes, I can most definitely say, if a member isn't doing what is asked of them - you kick them, no matter if they're an alt or not. If a member is doing more than you ask of them - you value them, no matter if they're a possible alt or not. If one player has 2 active characters (from 2 pcs) and can provide guild with everything that 2 people should be providing the guild with - it's more than fine to have that alt in the guild. If that player can't do so - you don't keep the alt in the guild.
And all of those things can be done by the guild leaders w/o any system-based limitation on any given member of the guild. And again, this whole argument only related to the hardcore guilds. Any casual or small guild usually don't ever care about this shit exactly because of their nature. And even if they care about you not logging in 3 days in a row for some reason - THEY CAN ALWAYS KICK YOU.
The onyl reason to be jumping in multiple guilds is that you aren't even giving guilds the fair share of commitment to see how things are and going to jump ship instantly.
This is entirely inaccurate.
Some reasons to want to be in multiple guilds at the same time:
You want to spy on a rival guild
You want to to be in a guild with crafting perks on crafting alts
You want to be in a guild with PvP focused perks on one character, but PvE perks on another
You want to be in a more casual guild on an alt, because they have their own purpose
That is four reasons there. While it may well be that none of them suit you, you cant say that others dont see value in it.
Also, now that I think about it, having literally your entire account feed off of one guild's benefits (w/o taking up as much space in the guild too) while committing only "one amount" of your time is way fucking easier and casual than having 5 alts in 5 different guilds that all consider you a valuable-enough player that they don't kick you. The argument so far has been "you can't be in multiple guilds on different alts because you're trying to make use of all those benefits", while BISH you're the one who's reaping way more benefits than you deserve!
This was a god damn casual bait post in disguise. I'm onto your dirty tricks!
Also, now that I think about it, having literally your entire account feed off of one guild's benefits (w/o taking up as much space in the guild too) while committing only "one amount" of your time is way fucking easier and casual than having 5 alts in 5 different guilds that all consider you a valuable-enough player that they don't kick you. The argument so far has been "you can't be in multiple guilds on different alts because you're trying to make use of all those benefits", while BISH you're the one who's reaping way more benefits than you deserve!
This was a god damn casual bait post in disguise. I'm onto your dirty tricks!
This interview point of view assumes that all guilds will be basically the same, or function basically the same.
If my guild wants to start up 4 or 5 in game guilds, each with different perks, that's our prerogative.
If I want to start up a guild where players can join up on alta in order to be for-hire mercenaries, that's my prerogative.
You are looking at this from a one dimensional *this is what a guild us and does* perspective.
I thought he meant IF your alts are in guilds, they have to be in the same guild.
Not that all of your alts must be in a guild.
No the idea is IF you have an alt they WILL be in the same guild. You get no choice in the matter.
Um. No. Alts cannot be auto-joined to a guild. That's absurd.
The OP states:
"I feel being in a guild as well as a citizen in a node should be tied to an account akin to how black desert online does it. Since guilds will have limited slots it will make it more fair swapping between your alts as they will all be in the game guild if one joins it."
I think this means any alt that chooses to join a guild will all be in the same guild.
If an alt chooses to join a guild, all the alts that have chosen to join a guild will be in the same guild.
If your Mage chooses to be in a guild and your Cleric chooses to be in a guild, they must be in the same guild.
But your Mage could choose to be in a guild and your Cleric could choose to not be in any guild.
Not - if a player joins a guild, any alt the player creates is automatically joined as member of the guild - alts cannot choose to be guildless.
That's not even possible if you create alts on different servers.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Also not a i hate alts thread, literarily a red herring as you didn't read my post. With the designs in the game a lot of things can be exploited, just like if you could be in multiple citizenships which you can't which is good. Being committed to a guild means you will help it grow, instead of having less commitment to any guild.
I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.
My alts will, of course, be commited to the guilds they join and will help them grow.
I fail to understand why any of the characters would be less committed to the guilds they belong to.
For instance - I belong to two gaming communities:
TheoryForge - comprised of the followers of the TheoryForge podcast. In the games that we play, we have a TheoryForge guild which our followers can join if they so wish. In Ashes, my Dygz avatar will be a member of the TheoryForge guild and help that guild achieve its goals.
DoP Crew - comprised of the followers of the game devs Snipehunter and Ombwah, who run the DopCrew twitch channel. Ombwah is now a Senior Quest Design Lead for Ashes of Creation. They play games weekly.
They form a guild in every game that they play. My Briarthorn avatar will be a member of the DoP Crew guild and help that guild achieve its goals.
I will also create a Bard guild for 3 of my Bard alts.
Each of my alts will be commited to the guilds that they join.
Any of my alts who do not want to be commited to a guild will not join guilds.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Also, now that I think about it, having literally your entire account feed off of one guild's benefits (w/o taking up as much space in the guild too) while committing only "one amount" of your time is way fucking easier and casual than having 5 alts in 5 different guilds that all consider you a valuable-enough player that they don't kick you. The argument so far has been "you can't be in multiple guilds on different alts because you're trying to make use of all those benefits", while BISH you're the one who's reaping way more benefits than you deserve!
This was a god damn casual bait post in disguise. I'm onto your dirty tricks!
Casual - I think you do not understand the meaning of ths word.
Hard disagree. Players should not be forced into one guild. If guild cap is 50-300 depending on how they set their guild up forcing alts to be in the same guild would needlessly take up spots forcing people to decide if they want more people or make an alt.
Hard disagree. Players should not be forced into one guild. If guild cap is 50-300 depending on how they set their guild up forcing alts to be in the same guild would needlessly take up spots forcing people to decide if they want more people or make an alt.
Because RPGs are about each character having the freedom to do what they want rather than just being one representation of the player.
its about each player actually, although within reason. What you say may be true on an RP server though.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2022
No. RPGs are not about each player.
RPGs are about each player character.
Which is precisely why there are multiple character slots - especiallly multiple character slots per server.
And why a player can simultaneously have characters on the same that are very different in terms of gender, race, class, profession and... guild membership.
This is a mmorpg that focuses on PvX not a single player rpg.
edit
Balance should be around the overall experience and design, Players wanting RP elements should be taking a back seat to such designs. Im not talking about just guilds with this, but everything as a whole. Same way you can only have one citizenship on your account.
3 pages and I still haven't seen a single reason why this would benefit the player over the current system. You're proposing to take a choice away from the player that's existed as precedent in mmos for almost 20 years - for what?
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
3 pages and I still haven't seen a single reason why this would benefit the player over the current system. You're proposing to take a choice away from the player that's existed as precedent in mmos for almost 20 years - for what?
Because they want the focus of the game to be on the players, rather than on the player characters.
The only practical purpose of alts is to provide advantages to a player's main.
Ashes is an MMO - they don't care about the RPG part.
Comments
Ashes is an MMORPG. The whole point of alts is to socialize differently with different characters...including each character being in different guilds - if that's what they choose to do.
If the account is restricted to just one guild, you mean.
My DPS character would probably not want to be in the same guild as my Tank character - they might not even have the same friends. My DPS character might want to be in a Py'Rai Guild while my Tank character chooses to be in a Ren'Kai Guild.
LMFAO
Projecting much, Mr. Pot?
Bye, Felica!
If a guild wants to be an alt guild for players from various guilds, who are you to stop them?
Your attitude is the selfish attitude here, you are the one wanting to limit people to suit your desire. No one is forcing you to have your characters in different guilds if you want to have them in the same guild.
Not that all of your alts must be in a guild.
No the idea is IF you have an alt they WILL be in the same guild. You get no choice in the matter.
That’s how I read it as well. But neither version seems appealing.
Putting everyone under a same roof with alts and expect that to go well
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(Side rant to quote above)
Stuff like that crack me up.... Why should I do more for a guild when the guild is not meeting my level of effort O.o I'm here to play a game not do a job that's not paying me lol. Guild is only good if its a group effort not a single man effort....
Moving on....
Blocking people into a single guild will make it more difficult for people to find a home. I can join a guild and like the people, but then my alt can join another guild and I can really like theses people more. Also who would want a reputation of someone jumping guilds after guilds after guilds just to try to find the right one lol.. It would be awkward to, because if the guild you left cared to ask you either tell them you don't "click" with them or just lie and humans are petty I say this because even I unintentionally can be petty....
Anyone else thinking this conversation is a basically highschool cliques or just me???
Spy Topic
You guys are going on and on about people spying in another guild listen what they say etc.... If the person who spies on another guild does anything its considered griefing/trolling which has been on the internet since like day one and no one has found a way to permanently stop it so why we having this conversation?
Why should my time/fun/social interaction suffer, because of a troll online?
If you don't want to socialize say you are off or chilling for the night. No one is forcing you to talk to people all day in game while you are playing....
Everyone under the same roof with alts is fine, because its all the same accounts at the end of the day.
The onyl reason to be jumping in multiple guilds is that you aren't even giving guilds the fair share of commitment to see how things are and going to jump ship instantly. Same thing can be said the other way around, if the guild knew you were in multiple guilds why would they give you one of their few spots? What are you doing for the guild?
STILL waiting for all these quotes sayings that the systems are designed and no other considering about them changing as they are final from Steven the one guy keeps saying without linking anything. Again if it goes back to the spying there you leave guild and spy on another guild, or you get friends or pay people off in the other guilds to spy for you. All of that will still be apart of the game.
If you are joining a guild that is focused on a certain race, just have characters of that race and join the guild. I don't think its the in of the world if you have a few alts of another race but your main is what the guild wants.
Of course i have my own experience leading guilds and working with them and i see the issue of alts taking up space in a guild as a big one there is limited space and those slots will fill up fast. I don't view guild as a fan group that you are in while doing nothing for the guild, hardly interacting with people and just there to get states honestly I think that is boring when you have no investment in the guild.
My final thoughts on the matter
I understand people want to do what they want, be free of dealing with people, or have more of a rp mind in focus. Ultimately I feel those issues can be tackled per person and guild and some people that have issues with it are guild hoppers. Having limited spots in a guild makes it harder for large wars and managing your guild knowing who is a alt and who isn't. For guild building this will make it easier for guilds to grow with a lot of random guilds that are just place holder for alts and picking up people in semi dead guilds.
Clearly everyone has their own view points, mine is just from a social stand point on wanting the growth of guilds to be steady, and every guild as meaningful as possible. So that is all I'll say on this. I have another idea for guild members and a ranked system ill; mention in another thread.
But leveling up a whole new alt char, giving it high quality gear and putting in time to prove yourself before the guild you wanna spy on - all of that takes time, effort and resources. On top of already putting a ton of all of those things into your main char. This makes spying a very direct hardcore part of the gameplay. As a guild leader of over 6 years, of ranging guild sizes and successes, I can most definitely say, if a member isn't doing what is asked of them - you kick them, no matter if they're an alt or not. If a member is doing more than you ask of them - you value them, no matter if they're a possible alt or not. If one player has 2 active characters (from 2 pcs) and can provide guild with everything that 2 people should be providing the guild with - it's more than fine to have that alt in the guild. If that player can't do so - you don't keep the alt in the guild.
And all of those things can be done by the guild leaders w/o any system-based limitation on any given member of the guild. And again, this whole argument only related to the hardcore guilds. Any casual or small guild usually don't ever care about this shit exactly because of their nature. And even if they care about you not logging in 3 days in a row for some reason - THEY CAN ALWAYS KICK YOU.
This is entirely inaccurate.
Some reasons to want to be in multiple guilds at the same time:
You want to spy on a rival guild
You want to to be in a guild with crafting perks on crafting alts
You want to be in a guild with PvP focused perks on one character, but PvE perks on another
You want to be in a more casual guild on an alt, because they have their own purpose
That is four reasons there. While it may well be that none of them suit you, you cant say that others dont see value in it.
This was a god damn casual bait post in disguise. I'm onto your dirty tricks!
If my guild wants to start up 4 or 5 in game guilds, each with different perks, that's our prerogative.
If I want to start up a guild where players can join up on alta in order to be for-hire mercenaries, that's my prerogative.
You are looking at this from a one dimensional *this is what a guild us and does* perspective.
That isnt Ashes.
The OP states:
"I feel being in a guild as well as a citizen in a node should be tied to an account akin to how black desert online does it. Since guilds will have limited slots it will make it more fair swapping between your alts as they will all be in the game guild if one joins it."
I think this means any alt that chooses to join a guild will all be in the same guild.
If an alt chooses to join a guild, all the alts that have chosen to join a guild will be in the same guild.
If your Mage chooses to be in a guild and your Cleric chooses to be in a guild, they must be in the same guild.
But your Mage could choose to be in a guild and your Cleric could choose to not be in any guild.
Not - if a player joins a guild, any alt the player creates is automatically joined as member of the guild - alts cannot choose to be guildless.
That's not even possible if you create alts on different servers.
My alts will, of course, be commited to the guilds they join and will help them grow.
I fail to understand why any of the characters would be less committed to the guilds they belong to.
For instance - I belong to two gaming communities:
TheoryForge - comprised of the followers of the TheoryForge podcast. In the games that we play, we have a TheoryForge guild which our followers can join if they so wish. In Ashes, my Dygz avatar will be a member of the TheoryForge guild and help that guild achieve its goals.
DoP Crew - comprised of the followers of the game devs Snipehunter and Ombwah, who run the DopCrew twitch channel. Ombwah is now a Senior Quest Design Lead for Ashes of Creation. They play games weekly.
They form a guild in every game that they play. My Briarthorn avatar will be a member of the DoP Crew guild and help that guild achieve its goals.
I will also create a Bard guild for 3 of my Bard alts.
Each of my alts will be commited to the guilds that they join.
Any of my alts who do not want to be commited to a guild will not join guilds.
What if your account counts as a single entity in a guild as opposed to counting the alts as additional members??
This is a reasonable request, and one I was waiting to see who would suggest first.
Explain why that is?
its about each player actually, although within reason. What you say may be true on an RP server though.
RPGs are about each player character.
Which is precisely why there are multiple character slots - especiallly multiple character slots per server.
And why a player can simultaneously have characters on the same that are very different in terms of gender, race, class, profession and... guild membership.
I mean that is debatable, seeing as the main focus is to engage and entertain the player, not the character they play.
edit
Balance should be around the overall experience and design, Players wanting RP elements should be taking a back seat to such designs. Im not talking about just guilds with this, but everything as a whole. Same way you can only have one citizenship on your account.
No...
The only practical purpose of alts is to provide advantages to a player's main.
Ashes is an MMO - they don't care about the RPG part.
Seems like it.