Guild/node should be tied to accounts

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

Can you define this please?

You get perks on your guild and get stronger perks if its a smaller guild. I don't know exactly what bonuses you get as its still in development.

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

Can you define this please?

You get perks on your guild and get stronger perks if its a smaller guild. I don't know exactly what bonuses you get as its still in development.

Right, But you keep speaking as if they transfer from 1 character to another.
If character 1 is in guild A and Character 2 is in guild B. Character 1 will not be getting the benefits of guild B.

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

Can you define this please?

You get perks on your guild and get stronger perks if its a smaller guild. I don't know exactly what bonuses you get as its still in development.

Right, But you keep speaking as if they transfer from 1 character to another.
If character 1 is in guild A and Character 2 is in guild B. Character 1 will not be getting the benefits of guild B.

You dont get the perks of all the guilds you in across multiple characters on one character. Where did you get that idea? I've clearly stated min maxing multiple times.

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

Can you define this please?

You get perks on your guild and get stronger perks if its a smaller guild. I don't know exactly what bonuses you get as its still in development.

Right, But you keep speaking as if they transfer from 1 character to another.
If character 1 is in guild A and Character 2 is in guild B. Character 1 will not be getting the benefits of guild B.

You dont get the perks of all the guilds you in across multiple characters on one character. Where did you get that idea? I've clearly stated min maxing multiple times.

Is this not you?
Mag7spy wrote: »
4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

bloodprophet wrote: »

Is this not you?
Mag7spy wrote: »
4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

I think the issue there is that Mag thinks that you don't play a character that gets the benefits. You play as yourself, a player, that is somehow benefiting constantly from all those benefits from different guilds. Even though that is not the case at all.

NiKr wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Is this not you?
Mag7spy wrote: »
4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

I think the issue there is that Mag thinks that you don't play a character that gets the benefits. You play as yourself, a player, that is somehow benefiting constantly from all those benefits from different guilds. Even though that is not the case at all.

Fair enough. I keep reading it as though the character's are getting the benefits from the guilds and they all stack. Maybe just the way it is written.

bloodprophet wrote: »

Fair enough. I keep reading it as though the character's are getting the benefits from the guilds and they all stack. Maybe just the way it is written.

Nah, I'm completely the same way. Which is why I've been arguing against this suggestion this much. The "oh you just want all those benefits, and that's wrong" argument has been the main one so far, yet it makes 0 sense because you're not benefiting at all.

NiKr wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Is this not you?
Mag7spy wrote: »
4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

I think the issue there is that Mag thinks that you don't play a character that gets the benefits. You play as yourself, a player, that is somehow benefiting constantly from all those benefits from different guilds. Even though that is not the case at all.

Thinking more this after our last two responses.
If this is the mindset does it then devolve into "I don't want you playing with other guilds as you might like them more then this one and leave?"
Basically seeking to dictate who your friends can be?

bloodprophet wrote: »

Thinking more this after our last two responses.
If this is the mindset does it then devolve into "I don't want you playing with other guilds as you might like them more then this one and leave?"
Basically seeking to dictate who your friends can be?

That's the feeling I got from it? As in, "it falls onto the player to always contribute to the guild they've chosen, with any and all resources at their disposal", instead of "every guild is free to choose who's worthy of being their member and who's not".

To me, as a GL, that just seems like a way to make life easier for GLs. Why worry that your members might be "cheating on you", when you can literally see all of the alts in your guild and know exactly when they're online. Why try to be the best GL with the best guild you can be, when you can be a dictator who oversees everything.

And like, I know I've been a GL dictator before, but my dictatorship only succeeded because I tried my best to reward all the players who gave their all to the guild. And if I saw someone slacking, my first thought wasn't even "are they in another guild on an alt", it was "they probably don't feel as rewarded for everything they do" and I'd discuss it with that member.

And I don't think I ever even heard of people double-guilding their game time. Maybe I was just lucky or maybe it was how L2's players felt about being in a guild and about being their own character on the server. The server would know "xXxMomPounderxXx the greatest Gladiator" and not "Max the greatest owner of xXxMomPounderxXx, D1kTw1st3r, Maximiliarmous, MaximusDecimusMeridius and M3xH3x characters who were all different classes, with none of them being all that great".

It was what you wanted to make out of yourself in the game and not what you were irl. And no one even saw this as PRing or anything. We were all competitive as fuck and all about pvp. But our character's image meant way more to us than our own. Saying that "it's not the character that benefits from the guilds, it's the player is just silly to me".

CROW3 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

A number of MMORPG's already do exactly this.

Wait - are you stating a number of MMOs count guild membership at the account level (instead of the character level) or lock all characters in an account to a single guild?

Count guild membership by account.

I can't think of any games that restrict you to one guild per account. Not saying there aren't any, just that I have never heard of any.

Noaani wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

A number of MMORPG's already do exactly this.

Wait - are you stating a number of MMOs count guild membership at the account level (instead of the character level) or lock all characters in an account to a single guild?

Count guild membership by account.

I can't think of any games that restrict you to one guild per account. Not saying there aren't any, just that I have never heard of any.

BDO does it.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

A number of MMORPG's already do exactly this.

Wait - are you stating a number of MMOs count guild membership at the account level (instead of the character level) or lock all characters in an account to a single guild?

Count guild membership by account.

I can't think of any games that restrict you to one guild per account. Not saying there aren't any, just that I have never heard of any.

BDO does it.

I never had an alt in BDO, but knowing what I know of the guild system, that doesn't sound like a good thing.

CROW3

Noaani wrote: »

Count guild membership by account.

I can't think of any games that restrict you to one guild per account. Not saying there aren't any, just that I have never heard of any.

Ok - totally agree. I’ve not seen the guild alt lock in any game either.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Casual - I think you do not understand the meaning of ths word.

Ok, not casual. Lazy. Or whatever the best-fitting word is for a person who wants all the benefits for none the work. Lately that's been "casual". Yes, not all casuals are the same, but from everything I've seen on forums/reddit - "casual" is usually used for people who want all the rewards with the smallest amount of investment into the work required for the reward.

And the suggestion of "all of my characters on one account benefit from being in the same guild w/o me spending x (the amount of characters on an account) times the time required to earn those benefits in that guild". That is the most fucking "I want it all and I want it now and w/o any commitment" bullshit I've heard in the last few years.

That's not really a thing - except in your head.

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

Can you define this please?

You get perks on your guild and get stronger perks if its a smaller guild. I don't know exactly what bonuses you get as its still in development.

Right, But you keep speaking as if they transfer from 1 character to another.
If character 1 is in guild A and Character 2 is in guild B. Character 1 will not be getting the benefits of guild B.

You dont get the perks of all the guilds you in across multiple characters on one character. Where did you get that idea? I've clearly stated min maxing multiple times.

Next question.
What is the underlying perceived concern that you are attempting to solve?

Does this concern require and authoritarian response - Intrepid forcing all characters made by a player into the same guild?
Or
An individual response - allowing the community to figure it.

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

Can you define this please?

You get perks on your guild and get stronger perks if its a smaller guild. I don't know exactly what bonuses you get as its still in development.

Right, But you keep speaking as if they transfer from 1 character to another.
If character 1 is in guild A and Character 2 is in guild B. Character 1 will not be getting the benefits of guild B.

You dont get the perks of all the guilds you in across multiple characters on one character. Where did you get that idea? I've clearly stated min maxing multiple times.

Next question.
What is the underlying perceived concern that you are attempting to solve?

Does this concern require and authoritarian response - Intrepid forcing all characters made by a player into the same guild?
Or
An individual response - allowing the community to figure it.

If you go back to my previous post I'd said my peace on it, we would just be going in loops at this point. Its my opinion on guilds, doesn't mean everyone needs to feel the same.

Dygz wrote: »

That's not really a thing - except in your head.

Good to know that ~20% of the posts I've seen in the last 2 years were purely in my imagination.

NiKr wrote: »

And the suggestion of "all of my characters on one account benefit from being in the same guild w/o me spending x (the amount of characters on an account) times the time required to earn those benefits in that guild". That is the most fucking "I want it all and I want it now and w/o any commitment" bullshit I've heard in the last few years.

There is a MAJOR flaw in your argument.

Perks are not earned on the player level, they are earned by the guild. As such, it is the guilds decision who gets them (by way of guild invites).

By your very own logic here, guilds wouldn't be able to recruit members to replace those that leave, as those new members would get the perks the guild has earned without having earned those perks them self.

Fact is, if a guild has earned some perk, and is happy to have an alt of yours in their guild, that is their business. The perk was still earned, and the guild is happy to pass that on to you - which is their right to do once they have earned that perk.

You are also totally ignoring those people out there that will join (or form) many new guilds and help them level up with the notion of getting a specific set of perks. That person absolutely isn't getting anything for free.

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

4. I want to have multiple perks from different guilds

Can you define this please?

You get perks on your guild and get stronger perks if its a smaller guild. I don't know exactly what bonuses you get as its still in development.

Right, But you keep speaking as if they transfer from 1 character to another.
If character 1 is in guild A and Character 2 is in guild B. Character 1 will not be getting the benefits of guild B.

You dont get the perks of all the guilds you in across multiple characters on one character. Where did you get that idea? I've clearly stated min maxing multiple times.

Next question.
What is the underlying perceived concern that you are attempting to solve?

Does this concern require and authoritarian response - Intrepid forcing all characters made by a player into the same guild?
Or
An individual response - allowing the community to figure it.

If you go back to my previous post I'd said my peace on it, we would just be going in loops at this point. Its my opinion on guilds, doesn't mean everyone needs to feel the same.

It's "saying your piece", as in, your part. Not peace.

That said, your argument still makes no sense at all.

You list some reasons given for players not wanting guilds to be account bound, and then say that most of them can be fixed vial social interaction, but you totally fail to give any reason as to why your complaint (which isn't actually well defined) can't be dealt with via social interaction.

As far as I can see, your complaint is based on the fact that players may be less dedicated to a given guild if they are able to join multiple, and that players are able to get multiple perks across their account. Why can that not be dealt with in the community?

Are guilds not simply able to manage their members?

If I am on my main 2/5ths of the time, and my guild is happy with the effort I am putting in, what needs to change?

If I am on an alt1/5th of the time, and they are happy with the effort I put in, what needs to change?

If I am on 2 other alts 1/10th of the time each, and the guilds they are in are happy with the effort I put in, what needs to change?

Each of those guilds earned the perks each guild has. They have the number of character spots in their guild that they have each earned. As such, they have the right to invite as many characters to their guild as they want, and bestow their perks on those characters. While you may argue that *I* didn't earn those perks, you can not argue that *THEY* didn't earn them, nor that *THEY* don't have the right to pass those perks on to who ever *THEY* want to pass them on to.

This is a Massively Multiplayer game, after all. Having good friends is as important (if not more important) than being good at the game yourself.