Kill count?

I hope there will be a kill count of nocs and players alike and statboard that everyone can see.

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Mag7spy wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

A nice little checks and balances system would be to maybe keep track of the player accounts you kill. If someone is constantly killing the same couple of accounts over and over without much other pvp, toss that fool a banhammer after a review for feeding.

Why would someone get ban hammered over doing what they want to get tot he top of leaderboards? I don't think AoC is going to be a leaderboards focused game for owPvP, that is a slippery slope on banning people.

The reason someone would be banned for doing that is because it's literally an exploit of the system, that would be the equivalent of win trading with someone in a competitive game.

Mag7spy

Shilee wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

A nice little checks and balances system would be to maybe keep track of the player accounts you kill. If someone is constantly killing the same couple of accounts over and over without much other pvp, toss that fool a banhammer after a review for feeding.

Why would someone get ban hammered over doing what they want to get tot he top of leaderboards? I don't think AoC is going to be a leaderboards focused game for owPvP, that is a slippery slope on banning people.

The reason someone would be banned for doing that is because it's literally an exploit of the system, that would be the equivalent of win trading with someone in a competitive game.

So you are saying they need to take leaderboards more seriously in owPvP more than any other game. They need to police to make sure people aren't trying to take a easy route to get to the top. So they also need to make sure people aren't pvping with friends to much as it be a easy way to get to the top.

Im simply point out problems for owPvP leaderboards in a game like this, if there are issues coming up that requires watching and double checking scores there is a issue. Its really a matter that imo is not that important to the overall game for this very certain kind of leaderboard in relation to owPvP of ganking people. The game isn't even balanced for 1v1.

Moistlol

Dremora wrote: »

I hope there will be a kill count of nocs and players alike and statboard that everyone can see.

Just simply not worth it. This would cause a terrible game experience for so many people. Just look at what happened in classic wow. The second that leader boards released the world was on fire. Spawn camping, PKing, just simply no enjoyment left for anyone that was max level with the best gear ready to gank.

A pvp only zone with a leaderboard on the other hand would be an easy way for people to get their openworld pvp fix without effecting people who didn't opt in.

PenguinPaladin

Is a pointless system to have to give those already enjoying the game a pat on the back system. This kind of thing only goes to hurt players that are "on the fence" of playing the game, while pumping up the ego's of those who would play without this anyways

tautau

I knew people with two or more accounts in L2 who would kill toons from their 2nd or 3rd account to drive up their kill score on their main character.

For this and other reasons already mentioned, I am not at all impressed with someone with a high kill count. It can even make me think less of someone.

After a few months, we will know who is a good PvPer and who isn't just from playing the game. I am fine if they leave kill counts out of the game.

Shilee

Mag7spy wrote: »

Shilee wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

A nice little checks and balances system would be to maybe keep track of the player accounts you kill. If someone is constantly killing the same couple of accounts over and over without much other pvp, toss that fool a banhammer after a review for feeding.

Why would someone get ban hammered over doing what they want to get tot he top of leaderboards? I don't think AoC is going to be a leaderboards focused game for owPvP, that is a slippery slope on banning people.

The reason someone would be banned for doing that is because it's literally an exploit of the system, that would be the equivalent of win trading with someone in a competitive game.

So you are saying they need to take leaderboards more seriously in owPvP more than any other game. They need to police to make sure people aren't trying to take a easy route to get to the top. So they also need to make sure people aren't pvping with friends to much as it be a easy way to get to the top.

Im simply point out problems for owPvP leaderboards in a game like this, if there are issues coming up that requires watching and double checking scores there is a issue. Its really a matter that imo is not that important to the overall game for this very certain kind of leaderboard in relation to owPvP of ganking people. The game isn't even balanced for 1v1.

No. I'm saying that if this is to be implemented, that people going out of their way to exploit how the leaderboards work, should be banned. Literally in every game ever created and on most platforms, intentionally abusing exploits will get you banned.

Mag7spy wrote: »

So you are saying they need to take leaderboards more seriously in owPvP more than any other game.

Straw Man Fallacy
A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.

You frequently do this on the forums where someone makes a point, and instead of addressing what is being said, you twist it and then debate that. I didn't say that leaderboards in owPvP games need to be taken more seriously, I said that knowingly exploiting should and will be bannable.

Ramirez

Dremora wrote: »

I hope there will be a kill count of nocs and players alike and statboard that everyone can see.

Albion online have a good system for This, they dont count the Kills but you get PvP honor every time you kill a player , the amount of honor you get depends of the amount of Pk honor that player have...

And you have honor count for PvE and Crafting/gathering to, this ways guilds while recruting know in what activity that player is more active

Shilee

Mag7spy wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

A nice little checks and balances system would be to maybe keep track of the player accounts you kill. If someone is constantly killing the same couple of accounts over and over without much other pvp, toss that fool a banhammer after a review for feeding.

Why would someone get ban hammered over doing what they want to get tot he top of leaderboards? I don't think AoC is going to be a leaderboards focused game for owPvP, that is a slippery slope on banning people.

Idk how you can say having a second alt account for crafting

Ramirez wrote: »

Dremora wrote: »

I hope there will be a kill count of nocs and players alike and statboard that everyone can see.

Albion online have a good system for This, they dont count the Kills but you get PvP honor every time you kill a player , the amount of honor you get depends of the amount of Pk honor that player have...

And you have honor count for PvE and Crafting/gathering to, this ways guilds while recruting know in what activity that player is more active

This is a really good way to do it, and would make recruiting for your guild 100x easier. I hope to see this implemented in someway to AoC.

PenguinPaladin

I still dont believe its a needed system overall. For all the people saying, we dont want a meta to form, and what if guilds start being too picky, seeing as there will be so many class combinations, we dont want to see any classes just becoming unplayable....

Giving guilds "true stats" to recruit with just helps along the processes of excluding other players. Give people trial runs. Make people ascertain another persons skill level by feel. Make them socialize. Talk about past accomplishments. Make the players sort through it. Like in real life... you have to get to know someone from nothing. I havnt met any friends by asking for their resume first.

Mag7spy

Shilee wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Shilee wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

A nice little checks and balances system would be to maybe keep track of the player accounts you kill. If someone is constantly killing the same couple of accounts over and over without much other pvp, toss that fool a banhammer after a review for feeding.

Why would someone get ban hammered over doing what they want to get tot he top of leaderboards? I don't think AoC is going to be a leaderboards focused game for owPvP, that is a slippery slope on banning people.

The reason someone would be banned for doing that is because it's literally an exploit of the system, that would be the equivalent of win trading with someone in a competitive game.

So you are saying they need to take leaderboards more seriously in owPvP more than any other game. They need to police to make sure people aren't trying to take a easy route to get to the top. So they also need to make sure people aren't pvping with friends to much as it be a easy way to get to the top.

Im simply point out problems for owPvP leaderboards in a game like this, if there are issues coming up that requires watching and double checking scores there is a issue. Its really a matter that imo is not that important to the overall game for this very certain kind of leaderboard in relation to owPvP of ganking people. The game isn't even balanced for 1v1.

No. I'm saying that if this is to be implemented, that people going out of their way to exploit how the leaderboards work, should be banned. Literally in every game ever created and on most platforms, intentionally abusing exploits will get you banned.

Mag7spy wrote: »

So you are saying they need to take leaderboards more seriously in owPvP more than any other game.

Straw Man Fallacy
A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.

You frequently do this on the forums where someone makes a point, and instead of addressing what is being said, you twist it and then debate that. I didn't say that leaderboards in owPvP games need to be taken more seriously, I said that knowingly exploiting should and will be bannable.

And I'm saying that no one is going to be policing leaderboards or banning people off of it. Your judge of someone cheating is another person just being competitive in their own sense. No matter what they will find a way around it and get to the top. You are trying to make something that isn't always competitive in a more toxic environment.

Strawman get the hell out of here. Most leaderboards in all games people find ways to get to the top though any means needed. What you consider an exploit isn't one to someone else. People aren't there policing leaderboards in other games, stop trying you push for a competitive idea in a less competitive environment that doesn't even correlate to actual competitive game play.

PenguinPaladin

Mag7spy and shilee.

Make your point. And leave others with their point. No point in getting agrivated at one another. Excpecially to the point you ignore the rest of the comments in the thread.

Mag7spy

When i hear things about a honor system and not mentioning owPvP ganking not being included or talking about arenas, sieges and stuff. It worries me to think people are expecting a gank fest, or that everyone will fight back when attacked and go purple rather then just having the person gain corruption. Ad i feel if people at ganking and attacking too much they most likely would up the corruption effects through testing.

PenguinPaladin

Mag7spy wrote: »

When i hear things about a honor system and not mentioning owPvP ganking not being included or talking about arenas, sieges and stuff. It worries me to think people are expecting a gank fest, or that everyone will fight back when attacked and go purple rather then just having the person gain corruption. Ad i feel if people at ganking and attacking too much they most likely would up the corruption effects through testing.

You dont have to go purple to attack people who are red either. So someone killing a green and going red telling wveryone nearby to kill them for free..... ganking will have to be a thoughtout activity.

Shilee

Mag7spy wrote: »

Shilee wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Shilee wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

A nice little checks and balances system would be to maybe keep track of the player accounts you kill. If someone is constantly killing the same couple of accounts over and over without much other pvp, toss that fool a banhammer after a review for feeding.

Why would someone get ban hammered over doing what they want to get tot he top of leaderboards? I don't think AoC is going to be a leaderboards focused game for owPvP, that is a slippery slope on banning people.

The reason someone would be banned for doing that is because it's literally an exploit of the system, that would be the equivalent of win trading with someone in a competitive game.

So you are saying they need to take leaderboards more seriously in owPvP more than any other game. They need to police to make sure people aren't trying to take a easy route to get to the top. So they also need to make sure people aren't pvping with friends to much as it be a easy way to get to the top.

Im simply point out problems for owPvP leaderboards in a game like this, if there are issues coming up that requires watching and double checking scores there is a issue. Its really a matter that imo is not that important to the overall game for this very certain kind of leaderboard in relation to owPvP of ganking people. The game isn't even balanced for 1v1.

No. I'm saying that if this is to be implemented, that people going out of their way to exploit how the leaderboards work, should be banned. Literally in every game ever created and on most platforms, intentionally abusing exploits will get you banned.

Mag7spy wrote: »

So you are saying they need to take leaderboards more seriously in owPvP more than any other game.

Straw Man Fallacy
A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.

You frequently do this on the forums where someone makes a point, and instead of addressing what is being said, you twist it and then debate that. I didn't say that leaderboards in owPvP games need to be taken more seriously, I said that knowingly exploiting should and will be bannable.

And I'm saying that no one is going to be policing leaderboards or banning people off of it. Your judge of someone cheating is another person just being competitive in their own sense. No matter what they will find a way around it and get to the top. You are trying to make something that isn't always competitive in a more toxic environment.

Strawman get the hell out of here. Most leaderboards in all games people find ways to get to the top though any means needed. What you consider an exploit isn't one to someone else. People aren't there policing leaderboards in other games, stop trying you push for a competitive idea in a less competitive environment that doesn't even correlate to actual competitive game play.

As I stated prior, if someone is exploiting, they will be banned. What you define as someone being "competitive" in this scenario is literally abusing the system in an unintended way. I'm not trying to push anything, I think a leaderboard would be cool, if there is one I would want it to be audited so people who cheat/exploit aren't at the top of it. Let me give you an example of this from Hunt: Showdown, a non competitive game.

There was a player in the hunt community, and this player would sit exactly at the max headshot range of players and would increase his KD for the leaderboards like this. This is a fine and intended way of climbing the leaderboards. No one respected him, but no one complained about it because that is within the scope of gameplay. This player would also disconnect his internet so his potential death wouldn't affect the leaderboards, as dcing didn't count as a death. He was caught by the developers, and banned from the game and kicked off the leaderboards for this. He abused the the disconnect system to prevent his KD from being affected and to safe guard his items. He took a system, that was meant to protect people's stuff if they dced, and exploited it in unintended ways and was punished.

There are things that are within reasonable gameplay that would increase someone's kills on the leaderboards in AoC, like corpse camping someone or fighting people who are lower level or with worse gear. I may think that these are pathetic ways to increase stats on a leaderboard but they are within the scope of gameplay. Me getting 3 people that I know, to allow me to kill them on repeat for hours is not. My statement is not about about making it more "competitive" (idk where you got that idea from the words I typed), it's about keeping it fair. To take a page out of your book; so you are saying you want the game to be less fair so it isn't perceived as competitive? (see what I did there?)

Shilee

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Mag7spy and shilee.

Make your point. And leave others with their point. No point in getting agrivated at one another. Excpecially to the point you ignore the rest of the comments in the thread.

I'm not aggravated, I just want the words that I am saying to be the topic of discussion between us, not something that wasn't said by me. I don't even disagree with him not wanting the leaderboard because he made a valid point that from it, toxicity would occur. That being said, should one be implemented, there should be rules in place to prevent people from doing things to abuse the system, in turn, reducing some toxicity and keeping it fair between everyone.

Mag7spy

You are missing the point wanting leaderboards to be in a game for the sake of leaderboards. Judgement on exploiting is subjective, you aren't going to be able to police people who work together for being on the top for the sake of being on the top.

You are trying to say all these weird elements on how they can do it so its fair or makes sense, because by design you have to create weird rules for it to be even somewhat viable and it still wouldn't be competitive.

It has nothing to do with your words the point of a leaderboard is a competitive nature. I don't know how you don't see the flaws with owPvP leaderboards. How about you mention some flaws so I know you are looking at this not being as bias?

Again having tons of leaderboards for every element of the game isn't needed, even more so if they need to be thinking of create a weird system to make it work as well as policing the game. Id rather their efforts go to working on the game and more things that make sense, and the gms working on loking at actual exploits that effect the game and other issues that come up. And not trying to investigate owPvP leaderboards sololy based on purple to purple pvp and ganking when the corruption system is made to limit the amount of owPvP in terms of ganking.

Effectively you are saying you want a leaderboard based on owPvP ganking.

Plutar

I'm just confused as to why EVERYTHING in games these days HAS to be competitive. The act of PvP alone is competitive, you know when you lose or win. Why do you need a leaderboard (specific to your server, by the way) telling you where you stand on some arbitrary ranking in a game designed around fun? You don't need to be Ashe Ketchum, "The Very Best, Like no one, EVER WAS", you can just be you and have fun. You know, the whole reason we have games to begin with.

Mag7spy

Plutar wrote: »

I'm just confused as to why EVERYTHING in games these days HAS to be competitive. The act of PvP alone is competitive, you know when you lose or win. Why do you need a leaderboard (specific to your server, by the way) telling you where you stand on some arbitrary ranking in a game designed around fun? You don't need to be Ashe Ketchum, "The Very Best, Like no one, EVER WAS", you can just be you and have fun. You know, the whole reason we have games to begin with.

Leaderboards are cool as long as they make sense and can be used as another form of fun progression. Not everyone will aim to be the top but they will still be happy with their position. It also can create a form of celebrities / heroes in the game with your achievements being seen by more people and recognized. It feeds both ways as well feeling like a world with people to know, and the rush you get when you workw ith them or kill them and the suspense it can create. Sometimes it can be a big deal, sometimes it will just add a little bit of flavor it is cool to have either way.

My only issue is owPvP leaderboards mainly around ganking and its a lot easier to manipulate that discreetly. I just don't see owpvp being that impactful leaderboard wise, a lot wouldn't make sense with how the game is.

Guild wars, bounty hunting and such i believe would have a better place on leaderboards though and those would take place in the open world.

Shilee

Mag7spy wrote: »

You are missing the point wanting leaderboards to be in a game for the sake of leaderboards. Judgement on exploiting is subjective, you aren't going to be able to police people who work together for being on the top for the sake of being on the top.

You are trying to say all these weird elements on how they can do it so its fair or makes sense, because by design you have to create weird rules for it to be even somewhat viable and it still wouldn't be competitive.

It has nothing to do with your words the point of a leaderboard is a competitive nature. I don't know how you don't see the flaws with owPvP leaderboards. How about you mention some flaws so I know you are looking at this not being as bias?

Again having tons of leaderboards for every element of the game isn't needed, even more so if they need to be thinking of create a weird system to make it work as well as policing the game. Id rather their efforts go to working on the game and more things that make sense, and the gms working on loking at actual exploits that effect the game and other issues that come up. And not trying to investigate owPvP leaderboards sololy based on purple to purple pvp and ganking when the corruption system is made to limit the amount of owPvP in terms of ganking.

Effectively you are saying you want a leaderboard based on owPvP ganking.

I didn't actually propose any "weird system" to make leaderboards work, all I said was people who exploit to rise in the leaderboards should be banned. Leaderboards are an inherently flawed system as it breeds elitism and toxicity. It is the exact same thing as a statistics page but published to others. The reason I like leaderboards for myself is to see generally how I stack up against other players and to track my own personal progress. No one disagrees with you when you say it's unneeded, it's something that adds no value to any game without a rated ladder. A lot of people still like seeing the leaderboards for the reasons that I already stated.

Again your last sentence is fallacious as that is not what I'm saying or what I said. What I am literally saying is that if there is exploitation of any system in the game (including leaderboards), a ban is warranted.

I don't care to debate this further as you keep not addressing my singular point of exploiting a system should warrant a ban so here is a video of a German Shepherd being groomed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEmq5FTsUkY

PenguinPaladin

My vote is for more animal videos in the thread

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