The problem with peice by peice revealing of a HYBRID combat system.

We didn't see everything.
Around June 14, Steven decided he would try to showcase a bit of combat instead of what they had originally planned to show for the June 22 Dev Livestream - because so many people have been asking to see some updated combat.

We got a very nice taste of the direction they're heading in, but it is far from "everything".
Discuss what you liked and disliked about what you saw if you wish to give feedback now.
Or wait until they showcase combat you're more keen to comment on.
I think most people are more worried that the Action Combat won't feel right and are quite confident they will nail Tab Target combat.

PenguinPaladin

Yeah. This is just more feedback towards the stream itself. I think this showing of a peice of the system, was too isolated to show how said peice fits into the overall system being made. it appears to be nearly tunnel vision on making an action combat base attack. Even if they do have more of the over all system in mind.

Its missleading marketing at worst. Poorly thought out presentation at best.

It's not intended to do that, though.
Most people loved the Demo. Way better than I was expecting.

I don't know that what we saw counts as a base attack.
We saw a few Fighter Active Skills.
But, yes, I think the mob attacks we saw indicate we may need to either rely on AoEs when solo or fight with a group.

PenguinPaladin

Dygz wrote: »

It's not intended to do that, though.

Everything that gets released is "somewhat marketing" thats why they make sure to not show anything before it looks good. If they had a "transparent development process" where they were showing off how poorly their first attempts were all the time, i wouldn't have the opinion that this update was flare over function. But they dont. They have a "transparent development process" where they only show things when they are somewhat pretty, and they put it on stage.

CROW3

It’s fine - I’m not expecting to attend sprint demos. My hope would be that once they have their direction and framework for abilities more solid, that we would see an increase in the number of combat stuff in monthly spotlights.

Can't please all of the people all of the time.

Otr wrote: »

By the way... how do people select their target in a tab targeting game? When you have 10 enemies to choose from?
You press TAB multiple times until you see it selected? Or you click on it with your mouse?

It depends on the game, but normally, you have both options.

In games where you don't want to change direction, usually you tab repeatedly if the enemy is moving around behind you, in my experience (so that they can't cause you to do unintended things with your mouse positioning).

Otherwise clicking is good.

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

By the way... how do people select their target in a tab targeting game? When you have 10 enemies to choose from?
You press TAB multiple times until you see it selected? Or you click on it with your mouse?

In L2 "tab action" had an almost melee range, so everyone mainly clicked on their targets. And usually a party would have the main "clicker" and other dps characters would assist off of their target.

People didn't have a lot of confidence of their direction of action combat or were worried. Tab is not hard to do, you target a enemy and use a skill. The feel of action combat is not easily to nail and make it feel good or have the right curve of player skill. So they simply have showed they can do it and if im not mistake basic attacks always worked like that in the first place there was no tab targeting for it (unsure about range though).

So I'm unsure how they would be misleading if it follows the same thing they did in alpha one with how the basic melee attacks worked being you hit a button and do some attacks.

Basics attacks don't make a mmorpgs combat system tis a tiny part of it, but the basic attacks and effort they put into it id say are very good. People trying to compare to new world saying you will have 3 abilities and basic attacks i feel have not watched any of the alpha one gameplay or are new to keeping up with the development.

Mag7spy wrote: »

People didn't have a lot of confidence of their direction of action combat or were worried. Tab is not hard to do, you target a enemy and use a skill. The feel of action combat is not easily to nail and make it feel good or have the right curve of player skill. So they simply have showed they can do it and if im not mistake basic attacks always worked like that in the first place there was no tab targeting for it (unsure about range though).

So I'm unsure how they would be misleading if it follows the same thing they did in alpha one with how the basic melee attacks worked being you hit a button and do some attacks.

Basics attacks don't make a mmorpgs combat system tis a tiny part of it, but the basic attacks and effort they put into it id say are very good. People trying to compare to new world saying you will have 3 abilities and basic attacks i feel have not watched any of the alpha one gameplay or are new to keeping up with the development.

You are in fact mistaken about a lot of things you have said here relative to Ashes.

I make no claims about your previous experiences or the validity of those. They just don't apply.

Noaani

Otr wrote: »

By the way... how do people select their target in a tab targeting game? When you have 10 enemies to choose from?
You press TAB multiple times until you see it selected? Or you click on it with your mouse?

In terms of button presses, there are usually options.

You can (in many games) set a button to target the following,
Closest enemy
Most distant (in range) enemy
Closest ally
Most distant (in range) ally
Lowest HP (in range) ally
Most recent enemy to deal damage to you
Closest enemy that has you targeted
Highest HP (in range) enemy
Highest HP (in range) ally

There are a few others, but you get the point. Most games bind the first one to tab as standard, and as such most players only use that one, often not even knowing others exist (tab target is about pressing tab - right?).

Then there is the role of a Main Assist - a player in a group or raid that the DPS in said group or raid target, which puts that players target as your secondary target (or targets target, as it is often called). This is the same thing NiKr mentioned from L2 a few posts up

If you have an enemy targeted and they have one of your allies as their target (or if you target an ally and they have an enemy targeted), any offensive spell will hit the enemy, and any beneficial spell will hit your ally that is targeted.

Clicking is sometimes the best option if you know exactly who it is you want to target, and there are no obstacles in the way, but sometimes (especially if things are moving) it is easier to use one of the above. Need to target the boss? Hit your key to target Highest HP (in range) enemy. Need to get some emergency heals out? use Lowest HP (in range) ally. Have a short term buff up that you want to cast on the tank? Highest HP (in range) ally. Unsure of who just cast that fireball on you and want to go after them? Most recent enemy to deal damage to you is what you want.

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

People didn't have a lot of confidence of their direction of action combat or were worried. Tab is not hard to do, you target a enemy and use a skill. The feel of action combat is not easily to nail and make it feel good or have the right curve of player skill. So they simply have showed they can do it and if im not mistake basic attacks always worked like that in the first place there was no tab targeting for it (unsure about range though).

So I'm unsure how they would be misleading if it follows the same thing they did in alpha one with how the basic melee attacks worked being you hit a button and do some attacks.

Basics attacks don't make a mmorpgs combat system tis a tiny part of it, but the basic attacks and effort they put into it id say are very good. People trying to compare to new world saying you will have 3 abilities and basic attacks i feel have not watched any of the alpha one gameplay or are new to keeping up with the development.

You are in fact mistaken about a lot of things you have said here relative to Ashes.

I make no claims about your previous experiences or the validity of those. They just don't apply.

What are you even saying, the adjusted combat in Alpha 1 by the end do to feedback, they adjusted combat again do to feedback trying to get something people are happy about. What the hell are you even saying, honestly its getting more difficult to to take what you say seriously.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

People didn't have a lot of confidence of their direction of action combat or were worried. Tab is not hard to do, you target a enemy and use a skill. The feel of action combat is not easily to nail and make it feel good or have the right curve of player skill. So they simply have showed they can do it and if im not mistake basic attacks always worked like that in the first place there was no tab targeting for it (unsure about range though).

So I'm unsure how they would be misleading if it follows the same thing they did in alpha one with how the basic melee attacks worked being you hit a button and do some attacks.

Basics attacks don't make a mmorpgs combat system tis a tiny part of it, but the basic attacks and effort they put into it id say are very good. People trying to compare to new world saying you will have 3 abilities and basic attacks i feel have not watched any of the alpha one gameplay or are new to keeping up with the development.

You are in fact mistaken about a lot of things you have said here relative to Ashes.

I make no claims about your previous experiences or the validity of those. They just don't apply.

What are you even saying, the adjusted combat in Alpha 1 by the end do to feedback, they adjusted combat again do to feedback trying to get something people are happy about. What the hell are you even saying, honestly its getting more difficult to to take what you say seriously.

I believe it is true to say that we are both becoming a waste of each other's time, but for clarity...

"Basics attacks don't make a mmorpgs combat system tis a tiny part of it, but the basic attacks and effort they put into it id say are very good. People trying to compare to new world saying you will have 3 abilities and basic attacks i feel have not watched any of the alpha one gameplay or are new to keeping up with the development."

The abilities used in combat in Alpha-1 for Archetypes other than Mage were not necessarily abilities that were used consistently.

In fact, if you look at just what we have in the last trailer, if fighting a single enemy at close range, a WeaponMaster does not have a clear reason to even do anything other than their Basic Attack, maybe, MAYBE if the enemy did a move that gave them enough reason to dodge backward far enough for the Hammer to hit in time.

Basic attacks are not a 'tiny part' of Ashes' combat system as I understand it right now. Can you please clarify what it is other than your previous experience that makes you think they will be 'a tiny part of it'? Note that you are the one claiming that the Alpha-1 gameplay implied that people are misunderstanding the development, so if you find it necessary to backtrack and claim anything about how Alpha-1 didn't have enough abilities or whatever, just don't bother.

So we are going other then mage then because it makes your point look weak ok then.....

So I say new world has 3 skills being a complete game and max level. Then I look at AOC and I see a bunch more for a very low level character....You have a ability bar that goes up to 10, when your character gets max level im sure you will have plenty of skills to pick from as well.

Mag7spy wrote: »

So we are going other then mage then because it makes your point look weak ok then.....

So I say new world has 3 skills being a complete game and max level. Then I look at AOC and I see a bunch more for a very low level character....You have a ability bar that goes up to 10, when your character gets max level im sure you will have plenty of skills to pick from as well.

Yeah alright, that ability bar sure proves me wrong, basic attacks are definitely just a small part of gameplay in Ashes.

Glad we had this talk.

If you have some skills you don't use that much in alpha on tank, ok that is fine it still feels clear that as you level you will gain more and we will see what happens as they continue to develop.

Also mage will get more as they level up.

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

So we are going other then mage then because it makes your point look weak ok then.....

So I say new world has 3 skills being a complete game and max level. Then I look at AOC and I see a bunch more for a very low level character....You have a ability bar that goes up to 10, when your character gets max level im sure you will have plenty of skills to pick from as well.

Yeah alright, that ability bar sure proves me wrong, basic attacks are definitely just a small part of gameplay in Ashes.

Glad we had this talk.

When you are trying to compare a low level as the final product of ashes gameplay. Do you understand mmorpgs? do you understand the difference between a low level and a high level in terms of abilities?

Lets say the maximum amount of active skills you can have is 10 for one hotbar. That gives you plenty to do besides just your default basic attack.... That is like over 3 times what NW had....