CROW3 wrote: » What are you trying to effect with this proposal? My preference is that anyone can attack anyone else, but there are consequences to that action, not barriers.
Azraya wrote: » I was trying to think of a PVP system that discourages griefing and bullying lower level players. I think what AoC is going to do will work just fine, tho. As long as corrupted players can be looted in some form.
Azraya wrote: » I was trying to think of a PVP system that discourages griefing and bullying lower level players.
Otr wrote: » Azraya wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » What are you trying to effect with this proposal? My preference is that anyone can attack anyone else, but there are consequences to that action, not barriers. I was trying to think of a PVP system that discourages griefing and bullying lower level players. I think what AoC is going to do will work just fine, tho. As long as corrupted players can be looted in some form. There will be no material benefit to kill a low level player. And the leveling up does not take 12 months. Is relatively short. After that, or even before, each will find it's way of living in the world. PvE players will have their ways probably, by crafting, buying and selling things, staying away from danger. Stop ruining the fun of other players who want danger to exist. If you are terified of losing anything, you will not enjoy the game. Even losing your caravan is griefing. The difference between a player killing you and a group of players destroying and looting your caravan is like the difference between a solo assassin and organized crime. By griefing I understand anything which will trigger that grief emmotion:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grief Why did players became so sensitive?
Azraya wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » What are you trying to effect with this proposal? My preference is that anyone can attack anyone else, but there are consequences to that action, not barriers. I was trying to think of a PVP system that discourages griefing and bullying lower level players. I think what AoC is going to do will work just fine, tho. As long as corrupted players can be looted in some form.
Azraya wrote: » If I had MY way, everyone would have the option to flag as pvp around level 10 but if you choose to flag PVP youre stuck that way.
Azraya wrote: » I'd also allow looting in some form every time you die in a pvp fight.
Azraya wrote: » I would also give a currency reward for winning pvp fights that you could use to buy special gear that is lootable if you die in pvp.
CROW3 wrote: » Azraya wrote: » I was trying to think of a PVP system that discourages griefing and bullying lower level players. I think what AoC is going to do will work just fine, tho. As long as corrupted players can be looted in some form. I think we're all super curious to test the corruption system - and REALLY push it so it's calibrated correctly. It's going to be the linchpin of open-world player combat, and (maybe overstating it a bit) probably the success of the game (at least until it's balanced and corrected). You're not wrong to be thinking about other guardrails, I think we just need to dive in an feel how corruption balances owpvp.
tautau wrote: » As @Dygz said. If the player who is 10 level lower does not hit back, the higher-level player goes red when the lower-level player dies. BINGO, the lower-level player has instant revenge because the higher-level player just screwed themselves. Keep in mind that the lower-level player is going to die whether he fights back or not. While he may drop a trivially larger number of gatherable materials since he is green rather than purple, eventually the corrupt killer will drop a lot more materials and likely some very valuable gear as well. Back in L2, I occasionally saw the gear dropped from the corrupt player returned to the lower-level player as compensation for their death.
Depraved wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Azraya wrote: » I was trying to think of a PVP system that discourages griefing and bullying lower level players. I think what AoC is going to do will work just fine, tho. As long as corrupted players can be looted in some form. I think we're all super curious to test the corruption system - and REALLY push it so it's calibrated correctly. It's going to be the linchpin of open-world player combat, and (maybe overstating it a bit) probably the success of the game (at least until it's balanced and corrected). You're not wrong to be thinking about other guardrails, I think we just need to dive in an feel how corruption balances owpvp. tautau wrote: » As @Dygz said. If the player who is 10 level lower does not hit back, the higher-level player goes red when the lower-level player dies. BINGO, the lower-level player has instant revenge because the higher-level player just screwed themselves. Keep in mind that the lower-level player is going to die whether he fights back or not. While he may drop a trivially larger number of gatherable materials since he is green rather than purple, eventually the corrupt killer will drop a lot more materials and likely some very valuable gear as well. Back in L2, I occasionally saw the gear dropped from the corrupt player returned to the lower-level player as compensation for their death. the corruption system has been in mmorpg for over 20 years now, so we all know how it works and feels. what its not obvious to most people, and maybe the OP is trying to guard against, is players (usually scrubs who cant compete at high level because they suck) will make an alt, level it (doesnt even have to be to max level), equip it with easy to acquire storebought gear and go to low level areas and just murder everyone. lower level players have 0 chance of fighting back or running away. corruption doesnt matter for these people since they are using an alt with trash gear, so going red isnt really a risk and they dont really care about losing corruption score since its a character that doesnt matter. also, some players will have pk alts (or just equip their mains with trash gear) and go to a low level area, kill every1 and then level their alts (lets say they wanna level multiple character ot max) so low level players cant really fight back. also, some high level players will gear up with low level gear and try to fight players and provoke them to attack them back, then once they are purple, they will switch to their high level gear and 1 shot the purple player and farm their mats or clear the leveling spot for a friend. no chance of the low level player fighting back. yes u can always call friends etc etc to help but they arent always available, and u still gonna take the death penalty. im against barriers like OP wants, however, if a high level char kills u when ur white or purple, u shouldnt incur death penalty. the only benefits of no barriers ow pvp is bot hunting which i hope devs take care of those lol. hopefully we will only be allowed 1 char per server/account. this will mitigate the issue a bit, even though people with multiple accounts/pc will still have an advantage
Azraya wrote: » I'm so confused as to why most people dont just put in a system that doesnt let someone level 60 start a fight with someone more than 10 levels below them. Just code it to where you can't start combat against someone not in your level range.
Azraya wrote: » Depraved wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Azraya wrote: » I was trying to think of a PVP system that discourages griefing and bullying lower level players. I think what AoC is going to do will work just fine, tho. As long as corrupted players can be looted in some form. I think we're all super curious to test the corruption system - and REALLY push it so it's calibrated correctly. It's going to be the linchpin of open-world player combat, and (maybe overstating it a bit) probably the success of the game (at least until it's balanced and corrected). You're not wrong to be thinking about other guardrails, I think we just need to dive in an feel how corruption balances owpvp. tautau wrote: » As @Dygz said. If the player who is 10 level lower does not hit back, the higher-level player goes red when the lower-level player dies. BINGO, the lower-level player has instant revenge because the higher-level player just screwed themselves. Keep in mind that the lower-level player is going to die whether he fights back or not. While he may drop a trivially larger number of gatherable materials since he is green rather than purple, eventually the corrupt killer will drop a lot more materials and likely some very valuable gear as well. Back in L2, I occasionally saw the gear dropped from the corrupt player returned to the lower-level player as compensation for their death. the corruption system has been in mmorpg for over 20 years now, so we all know how it works and feels. what its not obvious to most people, and maybe the OP is trying to guard against, is players (usually scrubs who cant compete at high level because they suck) will make an alt, level it (doesnt even have to be to max level), equip it with easy to acquire storebought gear and go to low level areas and just murder everyone. lower level players have 0 chance of fighting back or running away. corruption doesnt matter for these people since they are using an alt with trash gear, so going red isnt really a risk and they dont really care about losing corruption score since its a character that doesnt matter. also, some players will have pk alts (or just equip their mains with trash gear) and go to a low level area, kill every1 and then level their alts (lets say they wanna level multiple character ot max) so low level players cant really fight back. also, some high level players will gear up with low level gear and try to fight players and provoke them to attack them back, then once they are purple, they will switch to their high level gear and 1 shot the purple player and farm their mats or clear the leveling spot for a friend. no chance of the low level player fighting back. yes u can always call friends etc etc to help but they arent always available, and u still gonna take the death penalty. im against barriers like OP wants, however, if a high level char kills u when ur white or purple, u shouldnt incur death penalty. the only benefits of no barriers ow pvp is bot hunting which i hope devs take care of those lol. hopefully we will only be allowed 1 char per server/account. this will mitigate the issue a bit, even though people with multiple accounts/pc will still have an advantage I'm so confused as to why most people dont just put in a system that doesnt let someone level 60 start a fight with someone more than 10 levels below them. Just code it to where you can't start combat against someone not in your level range.
NiKr wrote: » Azraya wrote: » I'm so confused as to why most people dont just put in a system that doesnt let someone level 60 start a fight with someone more than 10 levels below them. Just code it to where you can't start combat against someone not in your level range. As Depraved (and I before this) has already said, this would not solve the issue of lowbies dying. The only thing you would influence is the number of alts on the server. Those who really want to PK others will always find a way to do so, and, more often than not, do so in the least detrimental way for them.
Azraya wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Azraya wrote: » I'm so confused as to why most people dont just put in a system that doesnt let someone level 60 start a fight with someone more than 10 levels below them. Just code it to where you can't start combat against someone not in your level range. As Depraved (and I before this) has already said, this would not solve the issue of lowbies dying. The only thing you would influence is the number of alts on the server. Those who really want to PK others will always find a way to do so, and, more often than not, do so in the least detrimental way for them. It would solve the issue of someone low level dying to someone high level. If the game literally won't let you fight because you're out of each others level range... If people make alts and keep them low level so they can kill low levels? Thats a different beast. I don't see anything wrong with it.
Azraya wrote: » It would solve the issue of someone low level dying to someone high level.
NiKr wrote: » Azraya wrote: » It would solve the issue of someone low level dying to someone high level. That issue is already solved by corruption. A single kill of a lowbie would throw you deep into corruption, at which point you'll have to die multiple times, you'll go back hours if not days of XP grinding, you might destroy whatever gear you have on your through decay (depending on a few variables), you'll lose some gear due to it just dropping - and even if you manage to not die as a deep Red, you'll have your stats slashed in pvp so you won't be able to keep killing for much longer. Will a few lowbies on the server die at the hand of a high lvl player? Probably. Will a waaaaay bigger amount of them die at the hands of an alt of that high lvl player? Most definitely. The first one is not much of a problem and the second one is the intended gameplay (even if it does make those lowbies feel bad). Now I could see account-wide corruption being a thing. Maybe if you go past some PK count value (which would be account-wide too), your future corruption begins to overflow onto your alts. This way you'd slash the number of PKs across the whole game. Any player that just PKs here and there can do the counter decreasing quest and be on their merry way, but anyone who wants to have a PKing alt would get fucked. Obviously this would have to be properly tested, but I think it might work.@Azherae what does your designer brain think of this additional solution for hardcore PKers? Or do you consider PKing alts a non-issue and deem this suggestion to be pointless?
Azraya wrote: » Corruption could very well eliminate griefing. I was just saying I also think coding the system to simply not allow you to attack anyone outside of a pre-determined level range would also work. If the goal is to eliminate higher levels killing lower levels. There should never be a solution to people making an alt and keeping him low level for the sole purpose of PVP against other low levels.
