PVP system thoughts

I'm curious if you guys can find any flaws in this system. Would this be a viable PVP system?
Set it to where players cannot attack/heal/buff another player that is more than 10 levels above or below you.
Add a hidden system that starts a timer when player 1 kills player 2.
During this active timer, player 1 CANNOT start a fight against player 2.
Player 2 CAN start a fight with player 1 during this timer, if they choose. (Some people want revenge!)
This will kill his timer and allow player 1 to defend himself.

The timer could completely keep you from starting combat against a player you recently killed or it could just corrupt you, making you lootable and marking your location on the map for bounty hunters.

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CROW3

Azraya wrote: »

Corruption could very well eliminate griefing.

I think corruption will curb the widespread mass-murder of Greens, but it won't eliminate griefing. There will still be reasonable (I'm going to get those mats!) and unreasonable (I don't like your face!) green-icides occuring.

Azraya

Its not what I want. I want everyone to choose at character creation if youre flagged for PVP and make it permanent... that aint gonna happen, tho. All this really boils down to is just a discussion about pvp and how to do it without being a poopypants to other players. I do think its fine to make a character and stop leveling him at 20 for the sole purpose of killing other level 20s. I do not think its cool to be level 48 and smashing on level 20s because you can. Not sure how any of thats weird but we are all different, so.

CROW3

Azraya wrote: »

I do not think its cool to be level 48 and smashing on level 20s because you can. Not sure how any of thats weird but we are all different, so.

That's ok.

Azherae

It keeps coming up so I might as well since I'm in that mood today.

Note, @NiKr this is mostly for you and as I always always say about it, it does not work in Ashes (which is why I have no problem sharing it because I don't think Intrepid would ever use it and honestly I also don't care if they do).

Imo the correct way to do this is.

1. Combatant attacks Non-Combatant and does damage, a Gauge fills up relative to those two players only. The value of that Gauge applies a percentage reduction to any further damage the Non-Combatant takes, increasing as you get lower, but does NOT affect DoT in exactly the same way.
2. If Non-Combatant changes to Combatant, the Gauge is zeroed and the two can battle 'fairly'. This allows a player to treat an initial hit as a challenge not a panic moment. If Non-Combatant agrees to flag up and fight for the position, they can heal first. If Combatant is not okay with them healing first, they keep attacking.
3. Every time Non-Combatant heals themselves or is healed, the Gauge is reduced. You can run, stall, or negotiate, but that's it.
4. Combatant can continue all the way to killing Non-Combatant at which point the Gauge converts into Corruption. If anything ELSE kills the Non-Combatant, same deal. The Gauge increase is pretty exponential as health gets lower, mind you, so it's a LOT of potential Corruption to kill even one person. Multiply even higher for level gap situations.
5. After a certain period of TIME, the Gauge also becomes Corruption whether you kill the target or not. So just 'raw griefing' will eventually corrupt you, but pinging people probably doesn't give much.

There's a bunch of other stuff related to this Gauge and the Corruption in the system I have that makes it harder to steal bosses from people without a fairISH fight.

None of this is what Ashes wants, but when you notice that I kinda 'dismiss' other options, it's because I've ran some scenarios and I only put effort into thinking about stuff that has an effect that I personally consider better than the above.

This does not fit Ashes. There's no reason for anyone to care about it, but similarly, I don't care about Ashes' system and plan to just ignore it, other than the obvious unavoidable consequence of 'dying while Red' that I will just consider part of the game.

CROW3

I like the concept of the gauge for attacking that can stack corruption when a green is killed later. The guage can decay over time, but you're right that would help curb the harassment by repeatedly attacking and not killing greens. I would just take away the damage reduction aspect to the Green.

Azraya

CROW3 wrote: »

I like the concept of the gauge for attacking that can stack corruption when a green is killed later. The guage can decay over time, but you're right that would help curb the harassment by repeatedly attacking and not killing greens. I would just take away the damage reduction aspect to the Green.

Wherever he dies..... there shall he be buried!

CROW3

That damage reduction only helps the one attacking by staving off their punishment for being a murder-hobo. If they're taking the risk, I don't want to minimize the risk.

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

I like the concept of the gauge for attacking that can stack corruption when a green is killed later. The guage can decay over time, but you're right that would help curb the harassment by repeatedly attacking and not killing greens. I would just take away the damage reduction aspect to the Green.

Right, because that would fit with Ashes' goals better.

The game I am 'designing this for' is not intended to have the same type of player friction that Ashes does. It's meant to be more cooperative. So the idea would be that most people would think of fighting others as a natural part of the game, and the Gauge is there as a way of resetting the perspective.

"You hit me, but I'm not disadvantaged terribly, if you want a fair fight, gimme a minute."
"Nah I took you by surprise on purpose, if you just want to buff up before we even start, I'm not interested."
"Oh well then you're just gonna have to finish killing me but I'm not fighting you if I can't even buff first, if you want the spot, go Red for it."

(I'm still working out which Rogue skills give less Gauge on first attack in this system)

Without the damage reduction, it still works fine for Ashes MAYBE but I've never thought about it, and don't plan to. They will do their own thing.

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

That damage reduction only helps the one attacking by staving off their punishment for being a murder-hobo. If they're taking the risk, I don't want to minimize the risk.

Oh no, note again...

If you 'bring a guy down to 1%' and have been annoying them so long that your Dv Gauge is up to like 1200, it's just going to turn into Corruption points ANYWAY in about... 10 minutes. It's in your best interest if you are willing to go red to JUST use a rotation meant to kill your opponent as quickly as possible with minimal Gauge gain.

The better you are at PvP, the LESS risky it is supposed to be to do this, RELATIVE to 'the sort of person who is just trying to win by getting advantage but isn't as skilled'.

Make Assassins Great Again.

CROW3

Azherae wrote: »

If you 'bring a guy down to 1%' and have been annoying them so long that your Dv Gauge is up to like 1200, it's just going to turn into Corruption points ANYWAY in about... 10 minutes. It's in your best interest if you are willing to go red to JUST use a rotation meant to kill your opponent as quickly as possible with minimal Gauge gain.

Ooooh. Interesting. So, does that gauge act kind of like a fuse in the sense that it's going to blow up that player with corruption whether they kill another player or not?

OlympusBurns

I like the way it is right now. This is a social game and reputations will be developed. There are far-reaching consequences for having a reputation of killing lowbies.

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If you 'bring a guy down to 1%' and have been annoying them so long that your Dv Gauge is up to like 1200, it's just going to turn into Corruption points ANYWAY in about... 10 minutes. It's in your best interest if you are willing to go red to JUST use a rotation meant to kill your opponent as quickly as possible with minimal Gauge gain.

Ooooh. Interesting. So, does that gauge act kind of like a fuse in the sense that it's going to blow up that player with corruption whether they kill another player or not?

This is the idea. The goal would be to manipulate the behaviour of people to actually resolve a conflict in ANY way they wish to, without innate and immediate disadvantage.

You see someone running at you, instead of 'having to flag up when they might be friendly', see if they attack you first. If they do, you can stand there and die KNOWING with CERTAINTY that they will be Red. If you want to fight, and they're willing to either 'take only the small advantage from their initial hit' or 'wait for you to heal so you can duel', then you fight, your conflict is resolved.

Or you can 'spend time explaining to the other person that you were just about to leave' or 'are willing to share with them', or any number of other things, without worrying that you will DEFINITELY be dead by the time you do so. And they in turn have more reason to talk it out rather than getting a giant pile of Corruption 'to avoid getting caught off guard'.

Similarly, since the Gauge doesn't convert for a while, if you chase off someone without killing them, you have some time to decide how to handle it.

Etc etc. Long story. Still irrelevant.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

It keeps coming up so I might as well since I'm in that mood today.

Note, this is mostly for you and as I always always say about it, it does not work in Ashes (which is why I have no problem sharing it because I don't think Intrepid would ever use it and honestly I also don't care if they do).

Imo the correct way to do this is.
1. Combatant attacks Non-Combatant and does damage, a Gauge fills up relative to those two players only. The value of that Gauge applies a percentage reduction to any further damage the Non-Combatant takes, increasing as you get lower, but does NOT affect DoT in exactly the same way.
2. If Non-Combatant changes to Combatant, the Gauge is zeroed and the two can battle 'fairly'. This allows a player to treat an initial hit as a challenge not a panic moment. If Non-Combatant agrees to flag up and fight for the position, they can heal first. If Combatant is not okay with them healing first, they keep attacking.
3. Every time Non-Combatant heals themselves or is healed, the Gauge is reduced. You can run, stall, or negotiate, but that's it.
4. Combatant can continue all the way to killing Non-Combatant at which point the Gauge converts into Corruption. If anything ELSE kills the Non-Combatant, same deal. The Gauge increase is pretty exponential as health gets lower, mind you, so it's a LOT of potential Corruption to kill even one person. Multiply even higher for level gap situations.
5. After a certain period of TIME, the Gauge also becomes Corruption whether you kill the target or not. So just 'raw griefing' will eventually corrupt you, but pinging people probably doesn't give much.

There's a bunch of other stuff related to this Gauge and the Corruption in the system I have that makes it harder to steal bosses from people without a fairISH fight.

None of this is what Ashes wants, but when you notice that I kinda 'dismiss' other options, it's because I've ran some scenarios and I only put effort into thinking about stuff that has an effect that I personally consider better than the above.

This does not fit Ashes. There's no reason for anyone to care about it, but similarly, I don't care about Ashes' system and plan to just ignore it, other than the obvious unavoidable consequence of 'dying while Red' that I will just consider part of the game.

Does the healing reduce the gauge exponentially too? If I were to bring a dude to half health and then heal him back up, would I have reduced the gauge completely or would there be some overflow? I'm assuming it'd be overflow, right?

But then what about just hitting and healing as a means of harassment. Your first hit doesn't give as much gauge so the heal should reduce it completely, if I understood this correctly. Could the gauge have a hit-relative-to-hplost weight to it too? This could also positively effect differently-geared people.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

It keeps coming up so I might as well since I'm in that mood today.

Note, this is mostly for you and as I always always say about it, it does not work in Ashes (which is why I have no problem sharing it because I don't think Intrepid would ever use it and honestly I also don't care if they do).

Imo the correct way to do this is.
1. Combatant attacks Non-Combatant and does damage, a Gauge fills up relative to those two players only. The value of that Gauge applies a percentage reduction to any further damage the Non-Combatant takes, increasing as you get lower, but does NOT affect DoT in exactly the same way.
2. If Non-Combatant changes to Combatant, the Gauge is zeroed and the two can battle 'fairly'. This allows a player to treat an initial hit as a challenge not a panic moment. If Non-Combatant agrees to flag up and fight for the position, they can heal first. If Combatant is not okay with them healing first, they keep attacking.
3. Every time Non-Combatant heals themselves or is healed, the Gauge is reduced. You can run, stall, or negotiate, but that's it.
4. Combatant can continue all the way to killing Non-Combatant at which point the Gauge converts into Corruption. If anything ELSE kills the Non-Combatant, same deal. The Gauge increase is pretty exponential as health gets lower, mind you, so it's a LOT of potential Corruption to kill even one person. Multiply even higher for level gap situations.
5. After a certain period of TIME, the Gauge also becomes Corruption whether you kill the target or not. So just 'raw griefing' will eventually corrupt you, but pinging people probably doesn't give much.

There's a bunch of other stuff related to this Gauge and the Corruption in the system I have that makes it harder to steal bosses from people without a fairISH fight.

None of this is what Ashes wants, but when you notice that I kinda 'dismiss' other options, it's because I've ran some scenarios and I only put effort into thinking about stuff that has an effect that I personally consider better than the above.

This does not fit Ashes. There's no reason for anyone to care about it, but similarly, I don't care about Ashes' system and plan to just ignore it, other than the obvious unavoidable consequence of 'dying while Red' that I will just consider part of the game.

Does the healing reduce the gauge exponentially too? If I were to bring a dude to half health and then heal him back up, would I have reduced the gauge completely or would there be some overflow? I'm assuming it'd be overflow, right?

But then what about just hitting and healing as a means of harassment. Your first hit doesn't give as much gauge so the heal should reduce it completely, if I understood this correctly. Could the gauge have a hit-relative-to-hplost weight to it too? This could also positively effect differently-geared people.

This is also a requirement, yes.

Because again, remember that my goal in design is to create a PvP community.

So 'attacking someone right after a fight when they are at 30% HP' should be discouraged unless you have a very real reason you want that person dead and feel you can't beat them in a fair fight.

So if you hit someone for 10% of their HP when they were at 100%, they end up at 90%, you get 11 Dv.

You hit someone for 10% of their HP when they are at 50%, they end up at 40%, you get like 96 Dv.

It's meant to create a massive difference in situation.

You as a level 40 hit a level 20 for 100% of their HP from full? I'm seriously willing to give you 4,000 Dv. (level difference x 100% damage x 1+((100-amount of health they were at)/100) )

This applies to everyone in the attack group who actually strikes. There's other rules for 'how much Dv you absorb by healing someone with Dv'.

EDIT: Healing by the player under attack does not have exponential results in the same way, so they can in fact heal themselves a few times and you the attacker still end up with lots of Dv. But like I said, this is the simplified BASE of a really complex design I have which is not really worth discussing here.

CROW3

If you're attempting to curb violence in your version just play the Kars for Kids song on the primary sound layer for the attacker, the more damage they do the higher the volume.

[x] Achieve world peace
[ ] Buy more peanut butter

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

If you're attempting to curb violence in your version just play the Kars for Kids song on the primary sound layer for the attacker, the more damage they do the higher the volume.

[x] Achieve world peace
[ ] Buy more peanut butter

My intention would be to overall increase levels of violence and conflict.

CROW3

Azherae wrote: »

My intention would be to overall increase levels of violence and conflict.

Well, I guess my approach could do that too.

Ludullu

CROW3 wrote: »

Well, I guess my approach could do that too.

Yeah, you just increase the volume on the victim's side and unless they fight back - it keeps increasing

Azraya

It would be much simpler to just code the game to only let people of similar level initiate combat.
Make PVP be a permanant character bound choice.
Then add a timer that doesnt let you start combat with someone you've recently killed.
Under those rules, lowbies cant get killed by someone higher level.
You cant kill someone over and over.
You're not making someone PVP that doesnt want to.
Just my take on how PVP could work in an MMO and keep most happy.

Dygz

No.
If that's the case, you put PvE-Only characters on a PvE-Only server.

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