I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

I haven't played it yet, so I'm not drawing any sort of line yet. But steven asked for feedback about if we are going in a positive direction, and I'm just gonna say that every action combat korean type mmo I've ever played I have absolutely hated. I am tab target 100%, I think action combat only works from an overhead 3rd person perspective like diablo or league of legends or lost ark. I don't want to aim my ability's honestly, If I use a sword and get animation locked, and at the same time I'm required to dodge some kind of skill shot. I'm not gonna be happy. If I miss a spell as a spell caster because my mouse was 4 pixels off, same thing. Tab targeting let's me focus on what I think matters.

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Noaani

Solvryn wrote: »

Now it’s a top level PvP vs PvE thread?

To me, this thread has always been about the advantages and disadvantages of action and tab combat.

Action combat absolutely has an advantage in PvP, and even in some aspects of PvE (specifically solo).

However, tab target has advantages with large scale PvE content.

As such, this thread is about all of that - action, tab, PvE, PvP, everything.

Edit to add; which action combat games have you raided in? I'm going to assume it is basically just the piñata's that some games have called raids (Archeage, BDO et al), and not something that anyone that has participated in raid content in a number of MMO's could consider to be actual raid content.

Solvryn

Noaani wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Now it’s a top level PvP vs PvE thread?

To me, this thread has always been about the advantages and disadvantages of action and tab combat.

Action combat absolutely has an advantage in PvP, and even in some aspects of PvE (specifically solo).

However, tab target has advantages with large scale PvE content.

As such, this thread is about all of that - action, tab, PvE, PvP, everything.

Edit to add; which action combat games have you raided in? I'm going to assume it is basically just the piñata's that some games have called raids (Archeage, BDO et al), and not something that anyone that has participated in raid content in a number of MMO's could consider to be actual raid content.

TERA had big dungeon/raids, ESO has 12 mans, Darkfall had big boss fights.

Peoples definition of raid is entirely moot to me.

I’ve played both styles, it really just boils down to the devs.

Noaani

Solvryn wrote: »

Peoples definition of raid is entirely moot to me.

Peoples definition of raids can be moot to you, however, I have been clear from the start that I am talking about 40 person content as that is the raid size in Ashes.

As to the games above - Tera gave up on raid content as it didn't work well enough.

ESO has 12 person content at the most - the issues with action combat have always been stated to be in relation to more players than this.

Darkfall raids were dead easy - the only challenge involved with them was in relation to PvP content.

None of the above games have content that would be able to support a raiding scene - which is another of the qualifiers I have been very clear about this entire thread.

I mean, if you want to go off talking about games that have action combat and also had what can be generously described as low end raids, have at it.

However, that isn't what I am talking about.

Solvryn

Noaani wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Peoples definition of raid is entirely moot to me.

Peoples definition of raids can be moot to you, however, I have been clear from the start that I am talking about 40 person content as that is the raid size in Ashes.

As to the games above - Tera gave up on raid content as it didn't work well enough.

ESO has 12 person content at the most - the issues with action combat have always been stated to be in relation to more players than this.

Darkfall raids were dead easy - the only challenge involved with them was in relation to PvP content.

None of the above games have content that would be able to support a raiding scene - which is another of the qualifiers I have been very clear about this entire thread.

I mean, if you want to go off talking about games that have action combat and also had what can be generously described as low end raids, have at it.

However, that isn't what I am talking about.

Raids in AoC will be open world, so good luck and have fun.

I’m just going to support the devs and they’ll get it done.

Noaani

Solvryn wrote: »

Raids in AoC will be open world, so good luck and have fun.

Many of them will be, but not all.

Steven has already said that they have no problems instancing some content (up to 20%), and has clarified a number of reasons as to why they may instance a specific piece of content. One of those reasons was to make that piece of content a specific challenge for a specific number of players.

I'm glad you are just supporting the developers in this, I am as well (assuming they keep to their word on a number of matters).

However, the discussion in relation to action and tab target and how each perform in different areas of a game is not really a discussion specific to Ashes. Players can switch between them, so it can't be applicable to Ashes.

unphazd

Magic Man wrote: »

Well good thing you can choose and have mostly (up to 75%) tab targeting skills should you wish. But don't expect it to be just as effective as people that have to aim their skills. If you are ''100% tab target guy'', this might not be the game for you - just like it isn't a game for ''100% action guys'' 🙂

🙂

Theko

Action Combat is what makes me really interested in this game ...´i mean i really love the setting and the whole thing but seeing the combat will be action based is the cherry on top. Cant wait for this game to release and dump my time in it ...

Elder

Theko wrote: »

Action Combat is what makes me really interested in this game ...´i mean i really love the setting and the whole thing but seeing the combat will be action based is the cherry on top. Cant wait for this game to release and dump my time in it ...

If you're expecting a purely action orientated combat I think you may be disappointed. IS has been extremely consistent on stating their directions for hybrid combat.

Theko

Elder wrote: »

Theko wrote: »

Action Combat is what makes me really interested in this game ...´i mean i really love the setting and the whole thing but seeing the combat will be action based is the cherry on top. Cant wait for this game to release and dump my time in it ...

If you're expecting a purely action orientated combat I think you may be disappointed. IS has been extremely consistent on stating their directions for hybrid combat.

i totally know that i follow the game since a long time and i totally like what they are doing it was unexpected to see how much action movement is involved in the new video.

Fatalmistake187

As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

Gui10

I agree with OP. For game longevity, tab target is always better because it allows players to focus on actually activating their skills and movement rather then spam clicking all day to have their weapon do damage. It also levels the playing field whilst not at all reducing player agency and skill cap: weapons have a specific damage and attack speed and tab targeting allows for everyone with that same weapon to do same base damage and then leaves space for creativity and skill in spell casting.

Best games that have lasted long are things like Runescape, WoW, Guild Wars 1, these all use tab targeting, and for good reason.

Spam clicking for every attack literally is tiring for the hands and the mind, over time, specially for the people who play a lot, which the game needs.

Mag7spy

Gui10 wrote: »

I agree with OP. For game longevity, tab target is always better because it allows players to focus on actually activating their skills and movement rather then spam clicking all day to have their weapon do damage. It also levels the playing field whilst not at all reducing player agency and skill cap: weapons have a specific damage and attack speed and tab targeting allows for everyone with that same weapon to do same base damage and then leaves space for creativity and skill in spell casting.

Best games that have lasted long are things like Runescape, WoW, Guild Wars 1, these all use tab targeting, and for good reason.

Spam clicking for every attack literally is tiring for the hands and the mind, over time, specially for the people who play a lot, which the game needs.

Hard disagree

1. Why are you saying you only basic attack with your weapon that deosn't make sense
2. it reducing skill cap immensely no hand eye coordination is needed or even attempting to aim your attacks.
3. Wanting everything to be generic and same base damage for weapons and having everything work the same is the meaning of no skill cap as everything is the same. I don't know why you keep saying you don't use skills in action combat that doesn't make sense to me. I dont know if you played lost ark, you only deal dmg if you use skills...
4. There is no difference between spam clicking and spamming your rotations on your 40 skills on your skill bar. Actually spam clicking you have to aim so lol.

To some it up....This isn't new world, that isn't the benchmark for action combat....

ItsmeToki

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

I am so excited to see players getting roasted in arenas who think action combat as aiming your attacks and landing your abilities will be the only skill needed in this game.

I am looking forward on a wide range of abilties beeing available for each class so that you actually have to think while outplaying your opponent rather than having just to aim a few basic attacks and handle a minor set of abilties like a braindead fool.

Mag7spy

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

I am so excited to see players getting roasted in arenas who think action combat as aiming your attacks and landing your abilities will be the only skill needed in this game.
I am looking forward on a wide range of abilties so that you actually have to think while outplaying your opponent rather than having just to aim basic attacks and handle a minor set of abilties like a braindead fool.

lmao in what scenario do you need to think more then action combat. This point doesn't make a lot of sense to me and feels more out of desperation to somehow say tab has more depth to it. Like all the effects and same elements aren't applied to action combat on top of needing to aim to a small or large degree.

ItsmeToki

Mag7spy wrote: »

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

I am so excited to see players getting roasted in arenas who think action combat as aiming your attacks and landing your abilities will be the only skill needed in this game.
I am looking forward on a wide range of abilties so that you actually have to think while outplaying your opponent rather than having just to aim basic attacks and handle a minor set of abilties like a braindead fool.

lmao in what scenario do you need to think more then action combat. This point doesn't make a lot of sense to me and feels more out of desperation to somehow say tab has more depth to it. Like all the effects and same elements aren't applied to action combat on top of needing to aim to a small or large degree.

As I expected from a guy that knows nothing else than one combat style

Apparently you have a lot of dropouts. So many things dont make sense to you

Maybe you are worried that a game based on the use of many different abilities will fry your little brain? So thats why you are praising action combat as much in every single post?

Dygz

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

If, in Ashes, Action Combat has advantage over Tab Targeting in PvP, the game design has failed.
It's highly unlikely that will remain a thing for long.

Mag7spy

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

I am so excited to see players getting roasted in arenas who think action combat as aiming your attacks and landing your abilities will be the only skill needed in this game.
I am looking forward on a wide range of abilties so that you actually have to think while outplaying your opponent rather than having just to aim basic attacks and handle a minor set of abilties like a braindead fool.

lmao in what scenario do you need to think more then action combat. This point doesn't make a lot of sense to me and feels more out of desperation to somehow say tab has more depth to it. Like all the effects and same elements aren't applied to action combat on top of needing to aim to a small or large degree.

As I expected from a guy that knows nothing else than one combat style
Apparently you have a lot of dropouts. So many things dont make sense to you

I've most likely played more tab target mmorpgs then you and exactly why I'm saying you don't know what you are talking about. That is why you can't bring up an example of some element of tab combat requiring you to think more in combat it literarily makes no sense as you are trying to say skills have different effects in action combat compared to tab....Clearly effects of skills have be the same in both action and tab you are just say nonsense and you most likely got smacked up in some action based mmorpg.

ItsmeToki

Mag7spy wrote: »

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

I am so excited to see players getting roasted in arenas who think action combat as aiming your attacks and landing your abilities will be the only skill needed in this game.
I am looking forward on a wide range of abilties so that you actually have to think while outplaying your opponent rather than having just to aim basic attacks and handle a minor set of abilties like a braindead fool.

lmao in what scenario do you need to think more then action combat. This point doesn't make a lot of sense to me and feels more out of desperation to somehow say tab has more depth to it. Like all the effects and same elements aren't applied to action combat on top of needing to aim to a small or large degree.

As I expected from a guy that knows nothing else than one combat style
Apparently you have a lot of dropouts. So many things dont make sense to you

I've most likely played more tab target mmorpgs then you and exactly why I'm saying you don't know what you are talking about. That is why you can't bring up an example of some element of tab combat requiring you to think more in combat it literarily makes no sense as you are trying to say skills have different effects in action combat compared to tab....Clearly effects of skills have be the same in both action and tab you are just say nonsense and you most likely got smacked up in some action based mmorpg.

If you can handly around 30 abilities with the reaction of a lets say low gladiator lvl player in wow and on top of that you wanna aim every single ability and every single basic attack. and you still wanna keep up with the speed of those kind of players. If you can manage that, you have my respect. Otherways if your only skill is based on aming and you try to compensate with that a slow mind, you still are a bad player to me.

Mag7spy

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

I am so excited to see players getting roasted in arenas who think action combat as aiming your attacks and landing your abilities will be the only skill needed in this game.
I am looking forward on a wide range of abilties so that you actually have to think while outplaying your opponent rather than having just to aim basic attacks and handle a minor set of abilties like a braindead fool.

lmao in what scenario do you need to think more then action combat. This point doesn't make a lot of sense to me and feels more out of desperation to somehow say tab has more depth to it. Like all the effects and same elements aren't applied to action combat on top of needing to aim to a small or large degree.

As I expected from a guy that knows nothing else than one combat style
Apparently you have a lot of dropouts. So many things dont make sense to you

I've most likely played more tab target mmorpgs then you and exactly why I'm saying you don't know what you are talking about. That is why you can't bring up an example of some element of tab combat requiring you to think more in combat it literarily makes no sense as you are trying to say skills have different effects in action combat compared to tab....Clearly effects of skills have be the same in both action and tab you are just say nonsense and you most likely got smacked up in some action based mmorpg.

If you can handly around 30 abilities with the reaction of a lets say low gladiator lvl player in wow and on top of that you wanna aim every single ability and every single basic attack. and you still wanna keep up with the speed of those kind of players. If you can manage that, you have my respect. Otherways if your only skill is based on aming and you try to compensate with that a slow mind, you still are a bad player to me.

So you are saying its easier to do, that I'd agree with you then lmao. Everyone knows tab target is a lot more easy than action combat that is why there is way less of a skill curve.

ItsmeToki

Mag7spy wrote: »

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

ItsmeToki wrote: »

Fatalmistake187 wrote: »

As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

I am so excited to see players getting roasted in arenas who think action combat as aiming your attacks and landing your abilities will be the only skill needed in this game.
I am looking forward on a wide range of abilties so that you actually have to think while outplaying your opponent rather than having just to aim basic attacks and handle a minor set of abilties like a braindead fool.

lmao in what scenario do you need to think more then action combat. This point doesn't make a lot of sense to me and feels more out of desperation to somehow say tab has more depth to it. Like all the effects and same elements aren't applied to action combat on top of needing to aim to a small or large degree.

As I expected from a guy that knows nothing else than one combat style
Apparently you have a lot of dropouts. So many things dont make sense to you

I've most likely played more tab target mmorpgs then you and exactly why I'm saying you don't know what you are talking about. That is why you can't bring up an example of some element of tab combat requiring you to think more in combat it literarily makes no sense as you are trying to say skills have different effects in action combat compared to tab....Clearly effects of skills have be the same in both action and tab you are just say nonsense and you most likely got smacked up in some action based mmorpg.

If you can handly around 30 abilities with the reaction of a lets say low gladiator lvl player in wow and on top of that you wanna aim every single ability and every single basic attack. and you still wanna keep up with the speed of those kind of players. If you can manage that, you have my respect. Otherways if your only skill is based on aming and you try to compensate with that a slow mind, you still are a bad player to me.

So you are saying its easier to do, that I'd agree with you then lmao. Everyone knows tab target is a lot more easy than action combat that is why there is way less of a skill curve.

As I though. Somebody is trying to compensate something here

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