Jail and bounty hunter as punishment for corrupted players

A hanging tree for banned accounts (similar to those in Witcher 3) would be interesting.

Enigmatic Sage

CROW3 wrote: »

A hanging tree for banned accounts (similar to those in Witcher 3) would be interesting.

they dont have show the account name or anything, just the main character model or something, lol.

lots of cool/grim options to display them somewhere in the world to watch them slowly decompose or remain for whatever duration.

Oh, I’d definitely suggest showing the account names and dates of their execution.

You could have your prison thing for bots. Have a proper anti-bot reporting mechanic where the reported player has to do some activity on their side when they get reported, and if there's 3 people who reported them within 5 minutes and the player failed to do the activity - they get sent to jail. If you want to tie some pointless jury to that - you can.

And then the reported player can get out of jail immediately if they were afk and got wrongfully accused, but they'd still get pinged to GMs for the report (in the case that botters can operate their characters well enough to get out of jail immediately).

NiKr wrote: »

You could have your prison thing for bots. Have a proper anti-bot reporting mechanic where the reported player has to do some activity on their side when they get reported, and if there's 3 people who reported them within 5 minutes and the player failed to do the activity - they get sent to jail.

Hehe - yeah, I don’t see the mmo player-base abusing that capability at all.

Huh - that green is mining in our area. Report, report, report - now we’re clear and no corruption. Yoink! 🤪

CROW3 wrote: »

Hehe - yeah, I don’t see the mmo player-base abusing that capability at all.

Huh - that green is mining in our area. Report, report, report - now we’re clear and no corruption. Yoink! 🤪

That's why I said that the reported player can return immediately. The player doesn't die, while still remaining in the same place. And the system would definitely need to track repeated report sends. If the same 3 dudes go around reporting every single person they see - they get pinged for harassment and get sent to jail just like a bot would (except with maybe no immediate escape).

And obviously all of this is under the pretense that there's a live GM that would get pinged by all those reports and could monitor the situation live.

NiKr wrote: »

And obviously all of this is under the pretense that there's a live GM that would get pinged by all those reports and could monitor the situation live.

Mmm. Now think of this at scale. How many live GMs are you expecting Steven to hire?

CROW3 wrote: »

Mmm. Now think of this at scale. How many live GMs are you expecting Steven to hire?

I mean, that applies to any issue relating to GMs though. There's an exploit in the game? Think of how many times it'll be used at scale and how much will the in-game system flag it for GMs? There's harassment of other players? Same shit. There's mass reporting? Same shit.

That's the usual case with live GMing, so it's on Intrepid to setup the tools required for those GMs to maximize their output w/o burning themselves out. Some automation of the imprisoning here and there, with GM pings for later checkup. Some abuse prevention of "if reported the same person twice within some period of time - turn off reporting. If reported multiple people in the span of some short period of time - jail for 5 mins. If continues to do so - jail longer and ping GMs".

Stuff like that can alleviate some of the scale issues, but GM's job is to look at everything they need to look at, of which there'll be a ton.

SongRune

NiKr wrote: »

You could have your prison thing for bots. Have a proper anti-bot reporting mechanic where the reported player has to do some activity on their side when they get reported, and if there's 3 people who reported them within 5 minutes and the player failed to do the activity - they get sent to jail. If you want to tie some pointless jury to that - you can.

And then the reported player can get out of jail immediately if they were afk and got wrongfully accused, but they'd still get pinged to GMs for the report (in the case that botters can operate their characters well enough to get out of jail immediately).

As someone who's written bots before: Waste of time. No bot I'dve written is gonna have trouble with any reasonable task you request short of actual captchas and even those aren't exactly perfect.

As a player who's paid the slightest modicum of attention to New World, and the whole "report-spam the enemy guild right before the battle"? This is just gonna get triggered at critical moments. Three people reporting your main tank, as their guild mates close in to steal your raid boss? It doesn't even matter if your tank can complete the task.

At the end of the day, if you had the GMs online to monitor and respond immediately to something like this, you wouldn't need the jail. The GM would just ban the bots when you report them.

Systems like this are more effort than they're worth, and don't stop enough bots to justify the cost or the annoyance to legitimate players. Add on any potential for abuse, and you've got a non-starter. It's better to focus one's resources on other methods of dealing with the problem. Proactive automated and manual detection, review, and response is still the optimal counter to the problem of bots as a whole.

The problem for us forum-goers is that we can't just discuss good ideas for how to detect or counter bots for real. It'd just give the bot writers more hints for what to evade. At the end of the day, we have to trust the people at Intrepid.

NiKr wrote: »

I mean, that applies to any issue relating to GMs though. There's an exploit in the game? Think of how many times it'll be used at scale and how much will the in-game system flag it for GMs? There's harassment of other players? Same shit. There's mass reporting? Same shit.

Exactly, so why give them one more thing they are going to have to prioritize and juggle for literally no upside to any players involved when there’s already a planned automated system to manage the same behavior? 🤨

CROW3 wrote: »

Exactly, so why give them one more thing they are going to have to prioritize and juggle for literally no upside to any players involved when there’s already a planned automated system to manage the same behavior? 🤨

I mean, the benefit would be the removal of potential bots w/o gaining corruption (in case you don't care about their loot). And depending on how those automated systems will be set up, some bots might circumvent them and just keep grinding, while all those GMs are super busy with smth else.

SongRune wrote: »

As a player who's paid the slightest modicum of attention to New World, and the whole "report-spam the enemy guild right before the battle"? This is just gonna get triggered at critical moments. Three people reporting your main tank, as their guild mates close in to steal your raid boss? It doesn't even matter if your tank can complete the task.

The system could be tracking the amount of people around the reported person relative to the amount of reports received. Or maybe just track event participation (be it bosses/sieges/whatever).

But yes, active GMs and proper anti-bot system are supposed to prevent this stuff from happening, but we all know that they won't be 100% effective.

Either way, this was just a suggestion for any kind of use for the prison system, cause I find the suggested use to be utter shite

NiKr wrote: »

Either way, this was just a suggestion for any kind of use for the prison system, cause I find the suggested use to be utter shite

Bwhahaha! 👊

Depraved

no prison

Enigmatic Sage

CROW3 wrote: »

Oh, I’d definitely suggest showing the account names and dates of their execution.

as cool as it would be to have that information public, I think there would be privacy issues as well as potential other issues displaying personal information regardless of real vs fake. Same thing would apply to character name as there could be issues with what people name themselves in-game.

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.

I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?

I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?

I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.

Dygz wrote: »

So... it is not your intention to have a prison?

My intention is to replacing an automated punishment system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.

Mag7spy

Sophisticus wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.

I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?

I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?

I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.

You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about corruption.

Otr wrote: »

Sophisticus wrote: »

My intention is to turn an automated punishment system to a player driven one. How far and how long the punishment goes in prison, i not care..

The way how I understand the dynamic of the world on a server, I think your suggestion is already considered.

That's right. Many (maybe even most) systems and concepts in AOC follow this vision. Only the flagging system does not seem to me to follow this vision.

Otr wrote: »

Regarding the automated punishment system:
The corruption will not be a big punishment, at least not for the first kill, because more levels of corruption are needed to make the player visible on maps and help bounty hunters find the corrupted player.
Beside the corruption, there is negative reputation, which will be gained when players attack and destroy caravans. Maybe there are other ways to get negative reputation too, which I do not know. @Dygz know much more about the game and he can correct me.

These are some things that can stay in with a jail system. Perhaps that you can only get into a jail if u have a high corruption level.

Otr wrote: »

Regarding suggestion to be a player driven one:
The corruption system will not prevent players to harm and the game offers the tools for players to take action when needed:

Government officials have wide-ranging leadership powers.[30] Node policies grant certain types of actions that a node government can take:[31]

Mark foreign citizens of other nodes as enemies of the state.[32][33]

Until then, this is correct, but the consequences (punishment) of such actions are automated.

Otr wrote: »

Regarding suggestion have Jail:
For practical reasons, is hard to go and capture a player, drag him in front of the jury and then put him in jail, because that player might log out and log in again when the jury is not online.
But once the jury (the government officials) decided to mark that player as enemy of the state, there must be a way for that player to clean his status.

It doesn't have to work that way. For such a system, there would be 1000 possibilities of implementation and how it would be integrated into the remaining systems.

As soon as you become visible for bounty hunters, it can also be enough for the bounty hunter kill you. Instead of being revived at the next cemetery, you immediately land in the judge Halle.

Otr wrote: »

That could be a quest, like going to an NPC and begging for forgiveness and then accepting to do some work, which would benefit the citizens in that node. That work could be like collecting materials or crafting things in a detention center. He can leave and return but only after he finished the grind, will he be absolved of his crimes.

This is a cool idea. Up to a certain corruption degree you should have this option. I never said anything else. Before you come to jail, this can be an options or afterwards.
As already said several times, I don't want to remove and replace everything from the current system. I just don't want automated punishment (such as dropping loot, weakness debuffs). To reduce his corruption by grinding is not a punishment for my understanding. This is work to prevent punishment (dropping loot, debuffs or jail)

Mag7spy wrote: »

k

Sophisticus wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.

I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?

I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?

I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.

You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about corruption.

I do not necessarily speak of the current corruption system that "forces me". This game would have 1000 systems and features that can feel like a "force".

Also what you tell me can also apply to you. You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about jail.

However. For one type of player, system/feature XY is a "force", and for the other it is the gaming experience he wants.